Community Project: New Tileset

[Draenin]

Okay, so I know I've been talking about this forever, but I'm finally making a thread about it.

It's been years upon years since pics1.png was created. And since then, we've had hundreds of servers that have customized it for their own use. However, there isn't a single version out there that has been completely revised. They always wind up incomplete.


So, let's change that and work with each other on making a new one that can be used across all servers.

This is a community project, so even though there's going to be competition, I don't want to see people at each other's throats over it. We are all working toward a common goal.


Rules

1. I will be facilitating the project, and will do my best to keep my opinion out of the discussion. If I do share my opinion, it will come as positive reinforcement.

2. Instead of re-posting the tileset over and over, just post the tiles you want to be included. I will do what I can to inject your work into the final copy. This includes aligning your tiles into the grid, and converting them to 8-bit colors when the time comes.

3. Generally speaking, any new tiles which replace the old ones will be accepted unless there is strong disapproval from lots of people. But the fact still remains that those old tiles will still need to be replaced. So if you disapprove, keep in mind that we will need a more suitable replacement eventually.

4. I may ask users to move on to editing tiles for different regions that have not been completed. Especially if there is too much competition going on over a particular section of the tiles.

5. Please try to sample colors from the tileset's pre-existing palette. Too many colors in some tiles might result in color loss when it gets converted down to 8-bit. You can use more than what's there, but if it looks terrible after conversion, you will need to reduce the amount of colors you've used.

6. You can either revise or change tiles. If you are revising them, bushes need to stay as bushes, rocks should stay as rocks, and so on. However, if you are changing some of them completely, you should seek approval from others.

7. Keep your tiles within the constraints of the area in which you wish to insert them. If you make something that's too large to fit in the space where it needs to be, I can try to chop it up and put some of the remaining tiles elsewhere, but too much of that is a problem.

8. As always, don't submit tiles which are 'borrowed' from other servers or games. This includes other game-making programs like RPG Maker and so on.



Because it has been released as a free resource and contains a fair number of tiles which have already been revised, I chose Dusty's tileset for our base image. However, if you want to replace anything in that image, please feel free to post what you've got.

The base tileset image is below, along with samples from the free tiles thread which may be included later as well. New tiles need to be submitted in the same fashion as these samples, so that I can work them into the tileset.

As we keep going, I will periodically post updates to the tileset, so people can see what it's looking like so far.

[Draenin]

Please excuse the double-post, but here's a revision with some of the samples loaded in. Feel free to test them and post screenshots as we go along.

[Crow]

I think the wooden chest worked a lot better. Also, replacing that stone thingy in the left part of the tileset with Dusty's black one doesn't seem like a good idea. Hedge tiles still need the colors adjusted, they're too saturated.

[Draenin]

I'll make those changes in the next revision, after we get some more tiles. Thanks for the notes.

[callimuc]

Here the snow tiles fixed to the tree style. Maybe you shouldn´t save the tileset in 8bit next time aswell



Maybe you could also add the tree/grass, snow and fixed cliff tiles from this tileset by dusty (on the right side)

[Draenin]

I will try to work in some of those tiles as well. At the moment, I am unscrambling the tiles and re-arranging them so they're easier to work with.


But before I get too deep into that, anyone know if it's possible to re-define what tiles are blocking, non-blocking, swimming, and so forth through a script?

If not, I may need to look for a template which defines where those kinds of tiles need to be.

[geneticfrog]

good idea and good cause.

if you do a google search you can probably find the old template that shows all the specific limits for each type of tile.


by the way the first trees look like they are inspired/edited from RPG makers past tree designs and the tomb stone.

however graal is made off edited zelda tilesets and scaled up thus why Pics1.png has outlines that are 2 pixels thick.
exmaple:

[Draenin]

Alrighty. I think I'm going to work with the 'Type 1' template for tiles, since it allows me to group stuff more easily.

[Tricxta]

Originally Posted by Draenin

Alrighty. I think I'm going to work with the 'Type 1' template for tiles, since it allows me to group stuff more easily.

You mean type 0?

Also this tileset seems like it's going to be a compilation of mainly dusty's work :P

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Draenin

Alrighty. I think I'm going to work with the 'Type 1' template for tiles, since it allows me to group stuff more easily.

Be warned that while type 1 allows more organization it comes at a cost. There is so much room allocated to nonblocking tiles that isn't needed that almost every other type(except for blocking) ends up with very little. The biggest issue is water, you only get a dozen or so tiles for all the water in the entire tileset.

Not to mention it requires creating any level using this as a base instead of pics1... and when it offers almost exactly the same thing as pics1 except organized differently that can be quite frustrating.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Be warned that while type 1 allows more organization it comes at a cost. There is so much room allocated to nonblocking tiles that isn't needed that almost every other type(except for blocking) ends up with very little. The biggest issue is water, you only get a dozen or so tiles for all the water in the entire tileset.

Not to mention it requires creating any level using this as a base instead of pics1... and when it offers almost exactly the same thing as pics1 except organized differently that can be quite frustrating.

I think we'll be okay when it comes to space. A lot of tiles in pics1.png are just recolored versions of normal tiles, and a good portion of tiles like the ones in the lava section can probably be remade or tossed out completely.

As I've been re-organizing tiles, I've found ways to make them more compact and easier to locate. This will be a major benefit to level artists who sometimes have trouble locating single tiles that are randomly placed in the Type 0 tileset because of space limitations. Not to mention, it also frees up a lot of space that we'll need for new objects.

However, using Type 1 basically means that old servers using pics1.png for their levels would not be able to just upload this tileset and change their server completely. Since this is an attempt at totally new tiles, they would be best used on new servers. But, that isn't to say that I can't re-scramble them for Type 0 once we're finished.


It's a slow process, but here's what I've got so far. The tiles on the left are in no particular order.

I'm just trying to get stuff like trees, cliffs, water, and objects put together before I put them into Type 1 format. As I progress, tiles that have been transferred are being blacked out so I can tell what's left. The stuff in the top-left may be disorganized right now, but I'll be arranging them very neatly into rows when it comes time to do so.

[MattKan]

Why don't we all just work on a pics2.png?

[Emera]

Originally Posted by MattKan

Why don't we all just work on a pics2.png?

This. That's how it's going to turn out anyway :P

[Galdor]

... I don't like the cliffs, sorry.

[Crono]

trust me when i say those cliffs look awful ingame.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by MattKan

Why don't we all just work on a pics2.png?

That's what this thread is for.

I'm just here to arrange things and add them into the tileset so that we can make the most of the space we've got.

[maximus_asinus]

I don't like most of the tiles used on the left side (trees and shrubs look great, large bolder and cliffs do not) and watch for repeating tiles on the right side.

My personal suggestion also is to make border tiles for the roof that do not include the color of the roof. That would save so many places for tiles.

[anubis_wing]

I like the castle tiles :O

[MattKan]

Originally Posted by Draenin

That's what this thread is for.

I'm just here to arrange things and add them into the tileset so that we can make the most of the space we've got.

Well, tbh, it should just be an edit of pics1.png so existing levels can be optimized without having to be completely remade...

[Crow]

Originally Posted by MattKan

Well, tbh, it should just be an edit of pics1.png so existing levels can be optimized without having to be completely remade...

I agree. Although one could also write a script to convert pics1 levels to another tileset, at least if it features all (or most) of the original tiles somewhere.

[Fulg0reSama]

Should just make it a "mod" for Graal as in the sense as HoN makes custom texture packs for you to download for your hero. (If that still happens that is)
You could even build upon it by improving the default pieces.

[maximus_asinus]

Originally Posted by MattKan

Well, tbh, it should just be an edit of pics1.png so existing levels can be optimized without having to be completely remade...

I completely disagree, the original pics1 has ugly tiles, erroneous tiles, redundant tiles, and completely obsolete tiles not to mention that is extremely frustrating to navigate through as a novice LAT (even I have issues and I've worked with the thing for almost a decade). Even a simple clean up of these tiles would probably break a large number of levels.

What needs to happen is a new pics1.png tileset be worked on in the form of a collaboration sort of like what is happening here (sorry Draenin, I think it was a mistake to choose the type 1 tileset, you're going to be extremely limited by blocking vs non blocking tiles). I am also going to push for transparency in the tileset for layer support. Dusty had the right idea when he started a pics1.png tileset for layering (big surprise).

[MattKan]

Bump.

Anybody still wanna go through with this?

[Emera]

I'd also love to see the end product of this.

[Devil_Lord2]

Anyone else find this thread amusing? Only Callimuc has actually contributed tiles..
I wouldn't doubt he has given up due to lack of help and due to heavy criticism in an open project... This is why nothing gets finished lol...

There first should have been brainstorming and images given.
Rule one of brainstorming, don't shoot down anyones ideas until the end of the session.

[Clockwork]

I'm still quite at odds about what's going on here... I think it'd be quite a bit easier if we just started with an empty tileset, and the community slowly filled/edited it, and commented on the new tiles/edits.