Pricing Changes - Why wait for v6?

[Rufus]

I think we've all read in a few different threads that the way the pricing system works on Graal is to be changed when v6 is released. If it is true, and the way the pricing is done on Graal is going to be changed, why wait?

It's currently 10.16am (EST) and it's a Sunday; not really a time you expect to see high traffic on Graal. However, there's currently 483 players on Era iPhone and 1226 players on Classic iPhone. If you compare that to who is currently online on the PC version (58 on Maloria, 54 on Zodiac, 33 on Era, 11 on Unholy Nation) the difference (1709:156) is massive, or at least for Graal anyway. The two iPhone servers have 11x more players than the four PC servers, why isn't this being taken advantage of (lol) in a way that's positive to the PC community?

I've spoken to a lot of the iPhone players, a few didn't even realize there was a PC version, but a lot of them are aware. If you ask them why they don't play they'll say it's too expensive and responses like, "$40 for playing the same game with fewer people?" are not uncommon. I really don't blame them either, I don't pay for this, and I'd bet it's the same for like 90% of the people I know on Graal. Apparently this has been realized, but if you're going to be attempting to fix this, why wait for v6 to come out? I'm pretty sure the issues that would be addressed with a change like this are not connected to the client itself.

[Imperialistic]

I agree with everything Rufus just mentioned ;

I recently bought an iPod Touch and started playing Classic iPhone and realized that hardly anybody knows about the PC version of GraalOnline, and even if they were to explore upon it they would be chased off from the high prices. I noticed the Classic iPhone prices and I believe everything that you could've purchased was under 5 dollars. Not only is Classic iPhone free to play but is also crowded with tons of players, why couldn't this concept be used on GraalOnline the PC edition?

[Stephen]

Opening Graal up freely with the existing gelat system would not work. The gelat system would need to be modified or removed to allow for microtransactions. The existing gelat system still requires discouraging lump-sum payments for gelats, which has a similar effect to subscriptions.

At the heart of microtransactions is the impulsive minimal one-click purchase system, which iTunes makes very easy on the iPhone, but Eurocenter isn't capable of that. Before the payments system is revised Graal needs a better developer pool - either more developers or more organization within the existing developer group towards unified projects. Without better developers new players would quickly tire of the existing content. Important changes need to be made to Graal Online before it can be functional at a larger scale.

It's very important that we recognize the differences in audiences as well. iPhone users do not directly compare to Graal PC users; the two platforms are very different. Graal Online may be able to attract a much broader audience on the iPhone than possible on the PC - radically modifying the payment system won't magically flip the switch.

[salesman]

give developers the opportunity to receive a portion of cash-shop sales on the servers that they create while you're at it.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I don't think the gelat system would work properly with microtransactions. You would still have to purchase lump-sum gelat packages, which would have a similar effect to subscription (discourage purchases). Opening Graal up freely, with the existing gelat system, would not work.

iPhone works nicely because microtransactions are tied directly into iTunes, it's basically one-click shopping. Eurocenter couldn't do that on Graal PC. Additionally, what Graal Online needs is a better developer pool or at the very least to focus the existing developer group on specific projects. If you open up Graal with price adjustments I'm not sure it would bring in any new developers - but I'm quite sure the existing content wouldn't keep new customers satisfied long. Important changes need to be made to Graal Online before it can be functional at a larger scale.

Really..? You aren't sure that getting new players to come by a cheaper price wouldn't bring new developers? I guess we need to explain the possible domino effect if we were to do so, If you do absolutely nothing to perk their interest at all, then you won't get anyone to come by of course. Let me explain how in obvious business logic.

If a customer comes up to your store and they look around and take a second to think "What is all of this?". In order to perk their interest; someone nice and accommodating needs to come up to the customer and say "Hello, can I help you?" and from there you need to keep them hooked with that attitude and point out the good in everything that you can instead of constant irritation. I agree that Cyberjourners/Eurocenter or whoever they go by persona wise has made major screw-ups, but are we really any better for not continuing to try to keep them with nice behavior? I know I may sound like I'm kissing the ass of those who've wrong players for years but it's just it's not just them 100%.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

Really..? You aren't sure that getting new players to come by a cheaper price wouldn't bring new developers? I guess we need to explain the possible domino effect if we were to do so, If you do absolutely nothing to perk their interest at all, then you won't get anyone to come by of course. Let me explain how in obvious business logic.

If a customer comes up to your store and they look around and take a second to think "What is all of this?". In order to perk their interest; someone nice and accommodating needs to come up to the customer and say "Hello, can I help you?" and from there you need to keep them hooked with that attitude and point out the good in everything that you can instead of constant irritation. I agree that Cyberjourners/Eurocenter or whoever they go by persona wise has made major screw-ups, but are we really any better for not continuing to try to keep them with nice behavior? I know I may sound like I'm kissing the ass of those who've wrong players for years but it's just it's not just them 100%.

I have greatly modified my post since your initial response. It should clarify any confusion.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I have greatly modified my post since your initial response. It should clarify any confusion.

I see, I take back my aggressive open and stand by the comment of it's not just their fault for having a lack of developer pool.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Opening Graal up freely, with the existing gelat system, would not work. The gelat system would need to be modified or removed to allow for microtransactions. The existing gelat system would still require discouraging lump-sum payments for gelats, which has a similar effect to subscriptions.

The heart of microtransactions is the impulsive one-click purchase system, which iTunes makes very easy on the iPhone, but Eurocenter isn't capable of that. Graal Online needs a better developer pool or at the very least better focus on organized projects within the existing developer group. If Graal is opened up with price adjustments I'm not sure it would bring in any new developers - but I'm quite sure the existing content wouldn't keep new customers satisfied long. Important changes need to be made to Graal Online before it can be functional at a larger scale.

The microtransactions on the iPhone are gelat packs, which is what we have on here. The only difference is that gelats on there is the main currency, and something you can earn yourself if you want to put time into it. That (along with the charging of subscriptions on here) is the only thing that differentiates PC Graal to iPod Graal. I don't see how they are incapable of it, they do it already. I can understand that there is not enough content (at current) to charge for on here. However, the servers do have developers, and on servers such as Zodiac, Era, they have introduced things to a cash shop. With a little bit of imagination and work, I expect developers can easily integrate microtransactions into their respective servers.

The problem is going to arise sooner or later, why wait until v6 is out to address it? Why keep the inconsistent payments (subscription on all servers, microtransactions offered on some for free playing) and methods (observer mode being removed from a select few servers, etc) instead of introducing something that is both consistent and clearly more appealing?

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Rufus

The microtransactions on the iPhone are gelat packs, which is what we have on here. The only difference is that gelats on there is the main currency, and something you can earn yourself if you want to put time into it. That (along with the charging of subscriptions on here) is the only thing that differentiates PC Graal to iPod Graal. I don't see how they are incapable of it, they do it already.

I strongly support microtransactions, I've been trying to get a shop API on Graal (for all servers to use) for the last two years. The initial goal was a GK Gelat shop. However, I don't think the existing system compares to iPhone's payment system - it's so slick that it leaves little room for second-thoughts. If Graal Online can do it, it'll work (although my concern then becomes their pricing).

Originally Posted by Rufus

The problem is going to arise sooner or later, why wait until v6 is out to address it? Why keep the inconsistent payments (subscription on all servers, microtransactions offered on some for free playing) and methods (observer mode being removed from a select few servers, etc) instead of introducing something that is both consistent and clearly more appealing?

It could be started immediately, but I'm not sure it will make any real difference until the developer problems are sorted. One of the big advantages Graal has on iPhone is the unified app store... it's very easy to find Graal. It's not so easy on the PC platform.

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

I see, I take back my aggressive open and stand by the comment of it's not just their fault for having a lack of developer pool.

I'm not worried whose fault it is - it's a problem that will need to be fixed regardless.

[Supaman771]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Opening Graal up freely with the existing gelat system would not work. The gelat system would need to be modified or removed to allow for microtransactions. The existing gelat system still requires discouraging lump-sum payments for gelats, which has a similar effect to subscriptions.

At the heart of microtransactions is the impulsive minimal one-click purchase system, which iTunes makes very easy on the iPhone, but Eurocenter isn't capable of that. Before the payments system is revised Graal needs a better developer pool - either more developers or more organization within the existing developer group towards unified projects. Without better developers new players would quickly tire of the existing content. Important changes need to be made to Graal Online before it can be functional at a larger scale.

It's very important that we recognize the differences in audiences as well. iPhone users do not directly compare to Graal PC users; the two platforms are very different. Graal Online may be able to attract a much broader audience on the iPhone than possible on the PC - radically modifying the payment system won't magically flip the switch.

All this stuff, yea.

Well, developers have to either pay for servers or pay for gold to work on servers...
Once done they then have to go through an annoying application process (whatever that may be) to be able to spend their time dealing with childish superiors and non-existent global support.

In the end you pay to waste your time, which is why Graal doesn't get the updates it needs. There are people here with the talent to do great things for Graal, but why would they pay to deal with all the bull**** when they can go off and work on a real game, make their own, or get a job doing the same thing and get paid?

Just my opinion here, but the whole system is backwards. And despite you trying to say it's not the payment, that goes hand-in-hand with development. So you kinda contradict, but both reasons would be right.

I guess...

I totally lost my point here, I stopped like 40 times while typing this to do other crap, *facepalm*.

Just flame and blah blah, I usually don't check this section of the forums anyway.

Originally Posted by cbk1994

You might be surprised how profitable gelat shops can be, even when used minimally. The gelat shop I added to Era has generated 563550 gelats as of right now, which is roughly $5,600 USD ($48 for 4400 gelats = about $0.01 per gelat). $5,600 isn't a ton of money, but I'd bet it pays the bandwidth bill. As long as gelat shops are done right (as opposed to how it was done on Zone), they work.

Oh and I wanted to say this is like right, and the gelat system if maintained and the items are constantly switched out and redone and worked around and stuff and things then it could be pretty awesome. Like when the potions were first added to the shop on Era, I saw thousands of them pumped out in the first few days because people with gelats wanted to try them, and people without gelats wanted to buy them. But as the price in Era-Cash dyed down so did the sales to just necessity. So if you were to keep changing it up, I'm sure the sales of them will stay up high. Like is it hard to make a potion image and add some random effect. Everyone likes new shiny things.

Ok I'm done, bye.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Stephen

It's very important that we recognize the differences in audiences as well. iPhone users do not directly compare to Graal PC users; the two platforms are very different.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Honestly, the quality the players on the iPhone servers is dealing with I don't think you need to worry too much about PC Graal not having a quality server to keep them interested. Apparently all they need is an overworld to run around and chat on.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

This is depressing for me, considering I have high standards... but if it means getting rid of Gold faster then I'm all for it.

The pricing change should attract new PC players - not convert iPhone players (dilution). The quality of the existing content is fine although I anticipate PC users will grow disinterested if it's not updated regularely. As a result users will very likely stop microtransactions.

It feels counter-intuitive, but merging content & developers from poorly performing classic servers into a new or revised "gold" server would help focus development and unify developers. This will not be possible unless you have the interest of community leaders and a means of managing developers to avoid in-fighting. In my "Sprints" document I outlined an incentive program which would appropriately achieve this goal.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Stephen

The pricing change should attract new PC players - not convert iPhone players (dilution). The quality of the existing content is fine although I anticipate PC users will grow disinterested if it's not updated regularely. As a result users may stop microtransactions.

And v6 is suddenly going to change the quality of the servers? It was a planned change for v6, so it's going to happen whether there's a good server out there or not.

I also don't see any quality servers surfacing any time soon. Some of them out there have potential, like Delteria and Atlantis, but there's always some server that has potential. That doesn't mean it's going to actually come out, or come out soon enough.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by Stephen

It sounds counter-intuitive, but merging content & developers from poorly performing classic servers into a new or revised "gold" server would help focus development and unify developers.

Okay first you show possible uncertainty towards your statement by say ing "It sounds counter-intuitive,"

But working on Gold servers would make no sense since most if not all developers are Classic member players.

@Dusty, I agree with you servers having potential. Problem is no one else will see it until its brought to surface. People want new servers but they just shrug it off as if a god is going to bring it up all of a sudden which is pretty arrogant.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

And v6 is suddenly going to change the quality of the servers?

Originally Posted by Stephen

The quality of the existing content is fine although I anticipate PC users will grow disinterested if it's not updated regularely. As a result users will very likely stop microtransactions.

I believe you misinterpreted this.

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

Okay first you show possible uncertainty towards your statement by say ing "It sounds counter-intuitive,"

It would be deceptive if I tried to present it any other way.

Originally Posted by Stephen

merging content & developers from poorly performing classic servers into a new or revised "gold" server would help focus development and unify developers.

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

But working on Gold servers would make no sense since most if not all developers are Classic member players.

The new pricing scheme would obsolete the existing subscription (gold) service.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by Stephen

It would be deceptive if I tried to present it any other way.
The new pricing scheme would obsolete the existing subscription (gold) service.

I guess you got a point there, But I think people can tell what you were saying context wise

Also maybe gold service's time has come..?
People have wanted classic only for years.