Playercount at an all time low

[Distorted]

Perhaps this is due to the lack of a 'Classic' themed server, or due to terrible management/the killing of players home servers; but it's no secret that PC Graal is dying entirely.

I know it's basically meaningless to post an idea here, and will almost never be considered by the higher-ups, but the client looks pretty desperate, and, "3D Era" is the worst idea I've actually ever heard Graal-related.

Allow access to some of the iServers from the client, the users will see the client's availability and that it's wayy smoother than the flash browsers, flock over and possibly check out the other servers (if they haven't already)

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Distorted

That screenshot is largely owed to the time of visit, but the sentiment certainly rings true. PC Graal is a small pond in which the water is slowly but surely evaporating away.

Originally Posted by Distorted

Allow access to some of the iServers from the client, the users will see the client's availability and that it's wayy smoother than the flash browsers, flock over and possibly check out the other servers (if they haven't already)

If it were to mean that I no longer had to listen to lame, half-arsed, pathetic, bullshit excuses such as "having two Classics on Facebook might confuse players", and that Graal administration were instead honorable enough to fulfill their agreements, then that's absolutely fine by me.

[kia345]

Classic and Graal: the Adventure

problem solved, now fix it

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by kia345

Classic and Graal: the Adventure

problem solved, now fix it

Funnily enough that was the one and only condition that was originally asked from me.

[Distorted]

Originally Posted by kia345

Classic and Graal: the Adventure

problem solved, now fix it

[xAndrewx]

I don't understand why people still aspire to develop a PC server. iOS servers can be accessed through PC - so why not make one? (staff)

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

I don't understand why people still aspire to develop a PC server. iOS servers can be accessed through PC - so why not make one?

I don't believe anyone worth their salt is attempting to develop a PC-only server at the moment? The concerns echo'ing around these forums lately are more to do with reversing the slow downward spiral of existing PC servers, which will otherwise likely go extinct.

Higher-ups may well see PC Graal as purely a development platform, but being a development platform goes hand in hand with it also being a game. If you take away the game, you take away the incentive for the majority of developers.

[xAndrewx]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

I don't believe anyone worth their salt is attempting to develop a PC-only server at the moment? The concerns echo'ing around these forums lately are more to do with reversing the slow downward spiral of existing PC servers, which will otherwise likely go extinct.

Higher-ups may well see PC Graal as purely a development platform, but being a development platform goes hand in hand with it also being a game. If you take away the game, you take away the incentive for the majority of developers.

This is what I don't understand- why aren't the PC servers working on moving to the iOS platform? I've seen no development from any classic servers, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

I think that PC Graal should be heavily focused on a development platform with staff access to design worlds. Keep the existing server structure where you can buy hosting and visit the playerworlds in development- however I wouldn't advertise it as a platform you can play on.

If I'm honest- the Development side of the iOS servers aren't heading in a downwards spiral. On a side note- every Development Admin that's been on iEra (3-5 people max) have all originated from the iOS community. Maybe it's the lack of enthusiasm on the PC staff to develop a server that only 15~ people play? Which leads me back to my original statement- why aren't they developing to become an iOS server?

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

This is what I don't understand- why aren't the PC servers working on moving to the iOS platform? I've seen no development from any classic servers, so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Zodiac, GK and UN had aspirations to move to iOS but this has not come to fruition for various different reasons. Delteria has ofcourse made its plans to launch on iOS abundantly clear but is still yet to happen. Era and GtA obviously have political hurdles. In the case of Zodiac and GK they have their own dev server for a mobile project.

Looking at it further, all iOS servers were pushed by Stefan, there have been a grand total of zero community-led projects launched on mobile. With that statistic in mind you have to question whether it's a realistic goal without being given official endorsement.

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

I think that PC Graal should be heavily focused on a development platform with staff access to design worlds. Keep the existing server structure where you can buy hosting and visit the playerworlds in development- however I wouldn't advertise it as a platform you can play on.

Why not? Having players be able to play your work in real-time is one of the single biggest incentives to learn to develop. I do think it should be clearly advertised as community-created content rather than professionally developed content though.

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Maybe it's the lack of enthusiasm on the PC staff to develop a server that only 15~ people play?

Although this is certainly true, your proposed solution is not really tackling the underlying problem: PC Graal has essentially been abandoned by Graal management for at least the last 7 years. Although it will never come close to reaching the heights of mobile Graal, it could still do a lot better if it was actually given some support, or if someone who actually cared about it was given control and the access to make changes.

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Yes- I really liked it. Why not make it unique more by adding a level system? If you can design it to be something similar to Classic but a whole new type of game I can't see why it would be declined.

It's an interesting thought hypothetically, but the reality of the situation is that Stephane and Xor will not even discuss the matter of whether the servers are similar. There is also the fact that an agreement had already been reached, and it has not even technically been reneged, I'm just assuming that because despite my best efforts over the last 18 months, communication has completely broken down from their side.

Really though if you took away the sword style combat we'd have to remake all the content anyway, and nobody would see it as a homage to the original Graal anymore.

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

I guess you either change or live with the fact it won't be an iOS server.

It's odd that you bring this up, because on one of the few occasions Unixmad did reply he was acting as if we were expecting to be launched on iOS, which as I pointed out before is a privilege that no community-led project has yet been granted. It is only Facebook + Web Browser that we had agreed to be launch on, and the differences between the servers are abundantly obvious to anyone who is capable of not judging a book by its cover.

[xAndrewx]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

Zodiac, GK and UN had aspirations to move to iOS but this has not come to fruition for various different reasons. Delteria has ofcourse made its plans to launch on iOS abundantly clear but is still yet to happen. Era and GtA obviously have political hurdles. In the case of Zodiac and GK they have their own dev server for a mobile project.

Looking at it further, all iOS servers were pushed by Stefan, there have been a grand total of zero community-led projects launched on mobile. With that statistic in mind you have to question whether it's a realistic goal without being given official endorsement.

Stefan didn't actually do much on the iOS servers- I did the majority of the content on both Ol' West and Zone; I don't believe this is the reason why iOS server's aren't being pushed. If a server is wanting to progress to iOS I suggest they contact the PWA? That's how it's always been and to my knowledge hasn't changed.

Originally Posted by ffcmike

Why not? Having players be able to play your work in real-time is one of the single biggest incentives to learn to develop. I do think it should be clearly advertised as community-created content rather than professionally developed content though.

You missed my point- Staff can design using PC and the iOS players can watch using their device. We use TWITCH a lot on iEra to promote development. I'm pretty sure every player with more than 100~ hours are aware it's a community driven project.

Originally Posted by ffcmike

Although this is certainly true, your proposed solution is not really tackling the underlying problem: PC Graal has essentially been abandoned by Graal management for at least the last 7 years. Although it will never come close to reaching the heights of mobile Graal, it could still do a lot better if it was actually given some support, or if someone who actually cared about it was given control and the access to make changes.

Why would Graal as a company invest time in a product that isn't their main platform? I agree it could be a lot better - but what's the point when we've proven that the iOS servers are performing 1000's times better.

As mentioned previously- I'd push PC to more a development environment used to create the iOS worlds.

It's an interesting thought hypothetically, but the reality of the situation is that Stephane and Xor will not even discuss the matter of whether the servers are similar. There is also the fact that an agreement had already been reached, and it has not even technically been reneged, I'm just assuming that because despite my best efforts over the last 18 months, communication has completely broken down from their side.

Really though if you took away the sword style combat we'd have to remake all the content anyway, and nobody would see it as a homage to the original Graal anymore.

It's odd that you bring this up, because on one of the few occasions Unixmad did reply he was acting as if we were expecting to be launched on iOS, which as I pointed out before is a privilege that no community-led project has yet been granted. It is only Facebook + Web Browser that we had agreed to be launch on, and the differences between the servers are abundantly obvious to anyone who is capable of not judging a book by its cover.

Let's look at this realistically- you've not been contacted in 18 months regarding a release, it's not going to happen in it's current state.

I agree, it would be a completely different server if you took away the swords and created a leveling system (as a suggestion). However, from a company point of view why would they release a Classic clone to confuse the young players?

I hate to say it to you because I think you've put a lot of dedication and effort in to GtA- but if you aren't going to change it to a server that's not similar to Classic... it won't get released; You need to make the decision to change or let it go. I know if I was a company manager I wouldn't invest time in to a project that is a replica of an existing product. Sorry if this offends you.

[ffcmike]

What about the fact that we already reached an agreement? Do you think it's honourable to arbitrarily withdraw the agreement and stop communicating? They could have at least apologised no?

Especially when you consider that we put in hundreds of hours work preparing the server with new content and systems for the launch, do you not find it despicable that no-one had the decency to feedback to me? I've had to literally go on witchhunts to find out what I have. Not that it's all about me, last year we had 10 - 25 players playing events around the clock despite remaining as a hidden server, there's a lot of disappointed players old and new who deserve a real answer.

[xAndrewx]

It depends what was said exactly. What I do know is you haven't heard in 18 months... I wouldn't expect anything else from it. After not hearing back within a couple months I'd have stopped and not continued until I had a response.

I could be wrong, I'm just giving you my opinion on what was said in this thread.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

It depends what was said exactly. What I do know is you haven't heard in 18 months... I wouldn't expect anything else from it. After not hearing back within a couple months I'd have stopped and not continued until I had a response.

I could be wrong, I'm just giving you my opinion on what was said in this thread.

It was roughly 18 months ago that the agreement was reached. There was then discussion for a couple of months, and then by the time I'd developed everything I felt needed to be developed Unixmad and Carlito clearly didn't want to discuss it anymore. I was aware that Xor "stomped his feet" and scolded Carlito soon after I made the announcement, but assured by both Carlito and Unixmad in separate conversations that as long we use a different name to "Classic" there should not be a big problem. It is only Xor who has failed to issue a response to me the entire time, and given that he is iClassic's manager, that is a blatant neglect of responsibilities.

My gut feeling was always that we've been stabbed in the back, but I still expected an honest conversation to bring closure to the matter as opposed to the usual "let's just ignore the big elephant in the room and hope it goes away by itself". With all the negativity which is circulating around lately, you'd think they'd make an attempt to deal with this amicably, something that I have made every attempt to do before ever speaking a word about it publicly.

[xAndrewx]

Sorry if I've offended you.

Over the past few years I have seen the PC Client as a Development / Staff platform- I guess that's because I'm only focused on the iOS platform. I just don't see the value of developing the PC client- hence why I suggested moving servers to the iOS platform.

I just asked a few of the iEra staff why they don't play PC-

• Lack of players
• Boring (possibly due to lack of players)

A few said they would play PC if-

• it had a server with over 100++ quests to complete, monsters to fight & places to explore.
• a server dedicated to single player experience

A couple that do play said they play because-

• their friends play
• more mature players

[Urahara112]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Sorry if I've offended you.

Over the past few years I have seen the PC Client as a Development / Staff platform- I guess that's because I'm only focused on the iOS platform. I just don't see the value of developing the PC client- hence why I suggested moving servers to the iOS platform.

I just asked a few of the iEra staff why they don't play PC-

• Lack of players
• Boring (possibly due to lack of players)

A few said they would play PC if-

• it had a server with over 100++ quests to complete, monsters to fight & places to explore.
• a server dedicated to single player experience

A couple that do play said they play because-

• their friends play
• more mature players

It's not about offending people, really. I've been around this game for years, and the last server I played is now gone, and that's Unholy Nation.

Once that server was essentially "deleted" from the public, the entire Unholy community left with it. That's like 100-150+ players (if you consider North American, European playerbase etc.).

Graals Administration team and their attitude towards the situation was "Good riddance", "who cares". Either way Graal's PC version is going in either two directions.

1. It's going to get cleaned up. The client version will receive updates, bugs THAT DO EXIST will be addressed and fixed, and Graals PC community has a chance to grow and recover, and PWA's will actually do something for the greater good of the Player Worlds, rather than use an eraser.

2. It's going to continue to rot until it's completely dissolved, and people like Unixmad are going to claim that it's not getting neglected? Meanwhile you're here basically saying that anyone around here working on a client version server is wasting their time.

Obviously someone like you who is getting paid to develop for iOS might not care so much about the alternative, I guess you're a company guy now. Hell, you're not really apart of this community anymore, and one could say that MD/Carlitto isn't either. Yet you guys have an impact on this place, and thus far it's been nothing but negative.

If a plug is going to be pulled, why is it taking so long? I've been on the client, and I'm reading about people attempting to "revive" servers, and they are trying to put in work while the "higher ups" are putting all of their work into iOS.

My point is, this place is done. The ones who have or had the opportunity to say or do something about it chose not to.

Nothing but false hope, negativity and neglect.