Role of PWA?

Crono · #1 07-26-2008, 07:11 PM

What exactly is the role of the PWA team?

Clockwork · #2 07-26-2008, 07:43 PM

To help playerworlds. o_O

Answer support tickets, solve problems, end drama, help out.

Inverness · #3 07-26-2008, 07:55 PM

What Aeko said, and evaluate playerworlds for moving to different tabs.

And I don't care that there aren't tabs anymore, I'm going to call it that.

Bell · #4 07-26-2008, 09:32 PM

Its easier to explain what we don't do. We don't handle account or guild issues. We don't handle scripting problems although if one of us is able to help we do. We don't deal with issues on the forums nor do we handle issues with GK, Zone 3D servers or iphone (yet) or any of the other little side projects. I probably left something out but I think you get the idea.

I believe Houdini is working on a more detailed list that entirely explains our role but I'll let him post that when he's through.

Rufus · #5 07-26-2008, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bell

Its easier to explain what we don't do. We don't handle account or guild issues. We don't handle scripting problems although if one of us is able to help we do. We don't deal with issues on the forums nor do we handle issues with GK, Zone 3D servers or iphone (yet) or any of the other little side projects. I probably left something out but I think you get the idea.

I believe Houdini is working on a more detailed list that entirely explains our role but I'll let him post that when he's through.

You don't enforce quality either, right?

Loriel · #6 07-27-2008, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bell

Its easier to explain what we don't do. We don't handle account or guild issues. We don't handle scripting problems although if one of us is able to help we do. We don't deal with issues on the forums nor do we handle issues with GK, Zone 3D servers or iphone (yet) or any of the other little side projects.

I do not do any of those either, let me know if you guys need some help.

Bell · #7 07-26-2008, 09:41 PM

Quality like beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Galdor · #8 07-26-2008, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bell

Quality like beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

quality standards.

Unpredlctable · #9 07-26-2008, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bell

Quality like beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

yeah well what does the beholder know. he doesn't even have a job

Bell · #10 07-26-2008, 09:50 PM

I would seriously like to have quality standards but there again. Who is to determine what is or isn't quality. I'm really not sure there is a method to even determine what would be classified as quality. There are too many gray areas when a person is asking you what the standards are. I see very little quality out there right now myself.

Crono · #11 07-26-2008, 10:09 PM

I've noticed that PWA is more of a backseat support group now than global enforcers of rules, quality, etc. I'm happy that they're not trying to impose every rule possible on playerworlds to restrict their speech but I am disappointed at how they handle things when it comes to quality control.

What bothers me even more is how little the PWA actually know about the staff working on Classic servers. Unholy Nation's recent management change (namely the removal/banning of Malinko) is a huge sign of ignorance on part of the PWA. He's had a history of lying and stealing, yet it took you guys a YEAR to see it. Not even that but Stefan was the one who caught him in the act of uploading Shangri-La's content onto Unholy Nation. (I didn't want to mention names but it was pretty much a must for the sake of argument).

I've heard reports of items being spawned on Era and Zodiac and sometimes even sold for USD. Are the PWA even bothering to look through item logs of different servers? Why do I know this but PWA don't?

This is why I created this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bell

Who is to determine what is or isn't quality.

Uhh, you?

Quote:

I'm really not sure there is a method to even determine what would be classified as quality. There are too many gray areas when a person is asking you what the standards are. I see very little quality out there right now myself.

One method would be to look at every major aspect of development (levels, graphics, scripts, ganis, and maybe sounds) and basically just form an opinion on each one. Not happy with what you see? Force it to be improved.

Gameplay should obviously be judged, not just by first impressions but an extended amount of testing time. This is to make sure the server doesn't completely suck and solely rely on events to keep people entertained.

Inverness · #12 07-26-2008, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono

One method would be to look at every major aspect of development (levels, graphics, scripts, ganis, and maybe sounds) and basically just form an opinion on each one. Not happy with what you see? Force it to be improved.

I think its better to look at it from a gameplay perspective, everything else is icing on the cake.

Crono · #13 07-26-2008, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inverness

I think its better to look at it from a gameplay perspective, everything else is icing on the cake.

Ugh, silly me. How could I forget the most important bit.

I kind of like to think that the major aspects of development come together to form "gameplay" and always forget to bring it up. My brain is weird.

Bell · #14 07-26-2008, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono

What bothers me even more is how little the PWA actually know about the staff working on Classic servers. Unholy Nation's recent management change (namely the removal/banning of Malinko) is a huge sign of ignorance on part of the PWA. He's had a history of lying and stealing, yet it took you guys a YEAR to see it. Not even that but Stefan was the one who caught him in the act of uploading Shangri-La's content onto Unholy Nation. (I didn't want to mention names but it was pretty much a must for the sake of argument).

You're misinformed on this but I won't discuss the details here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono

I've heard reports of items being spawned on Era and Zodiac and sometimes even sold for USD. Are the PWA even bothering to look through item logs of different servers? Why do I know this but PWA don't?

I get those same reports and do investigate, but USDing itself is very hard to prove since its rarely done through graal itself. As for the spawning? When its proven they are fired.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono

One method would be to look at every major aspect of development (levels, graphics, scripts, ganis, and maybe sounds) and basically just form an opinion on each one. Not happy with what you see? Force it to be improved.

UC servers asking for hosted receive a break in that they usually cannot get quality staff while still UC. If its really bad we won't even approve for hosted. However, when was the last time you saw us approve a server for Classic tabbed? Thats where quality really is necessary to come in. When a server is applying for hosted and we inspect, we give them suggestions for improvement based on what we can actually see. Please don't count those that have been classic tabbed for quite some time. Obviously scripting capabilities have improved since then so standards would be increased over time. That doesn't mean a server once qualified should be removed if they are at least trying to conform to a higher standard.

Crono · #15 07-26-2008, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bell

You're misinformed on this but I won't discuss the details here.

Yeah, I didn't mean to put that out as a topic at all.

Quote:

I get those same reports and do investigate, but USDing itself is very hard to prove since its rarely done through graal itself. As for the spawning? When its proven they are fired.

Do the PWA randomly log onto a server such as Zodiac or Era and check if items are coming out of no where or do they rely on the honesty of the administrators of those servers?

Quote:

UC servers asking for hosted receive a break in that they usually cannot get quality staff while still UC. If its really bad we won't even approve for hosted.

I have no complaints on how you treate UC servers, although this thread isn't supposed to be some kind of report card on the actions of the PWA. Sorry if I made it look that way.

Quote:

However, when was the last time you saw us approve a server for Classic tabbed?

Zodiac, which amazed me and is what made me confused about what the PWA are supposed to be doing and what they're not supposed to be doing.

Quote:

Please don't count those that have been classic tabbed for quite some time. Obviously scripting capabilities have improved since then so standards would be increased over time.

It's the classic servers that I'm actually confused about. The PWA don't seem to bother enforcing quality checks on these servers. They can upload the ugliest content and get away with it, which I find pathetic because most of Graal's population and future population will be playing these servers.

[email protected] · #16 07-26-2008, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono

I've heard reports of items being spawned on Era and Zodiac and sometimes even sold for USD. Are the PWA even bothering to look through item logs of different servers? Why do I know this but PWA don't?

i won't lie, i sold a metal storm to tph for like 80usd but then Era reset a week later so it didn't really matter and no one noticed

since then, i've logged everything staff based, seriously everything. i don't think the staff even know whats being logged [which is a good thing], even looking through the scripts i don't think they'd fully understand what exactly is being logged. [when i say everything, i mean everything... ask Bell hehe]

Clockwork · #17 07-27-2008, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [email protected]

i won't lie, i sold a metal storm to tph for like 80usd but then Era reset a week later so it didn't really matter and no one noticed

since then, i've logged everything staff based, seriously everything. i don't think the staff even know whats being logged [which is a good thing], even looking through the scripts i don't think they'd fully understand what exactly is being logged. [when i say everything, i mean everything... ask Bell hehe]

One reason I don't play era.

pooper200000 · #18 07-26-2008, 10:24 PM

So what is high quality and what is low quality? Is it just the general game play and do graphics, gani's and scripts play a role also?

Bell · #19 07-26-2008, 10:33 PM

I'm sure Crono as well as myself mean it as an overall effect. One of the problems though come back to whats to determine a quality standard. One group will find that a set of levels plain just suck yet to another group they will find it to be awesome. The same could be said for most every other aspect of the game play as well. I still see the problem as being the quality talent is spread too thin. Its impossible it seems to have the best scripters, graphics, ganiers, storytellers, levelers, sound staff, etc, all on the same server working together. There is too much testosterone amongst the staff to be willing to compromise on anything. You will find it impossible to get everyone to agree on any one thing ever. This is proven entirely already by looking at just how much everything is spread around.

It could be resolved if we became a company that only hires professional staff to develop but that would make Graal an entirely different creature than it is now.

Bell · #20 07-26-2008, 10:45 PM

I wasn't a PWA when Zodiac went hosted so I'm not even sure what their standards were then nor whom approved it.

I would love to be able to do quality checks on Classic servers but the PWA has been spread a little to thin of late to be able to find the time to do everything we really should be doing. That should be resolved soon. We still try to not be too invasive though. If we start complaining about every little detail they do it will just make management feel they have no say at all in what they consider to be good content or bad and the PWA might as well be running the servers rather than local management. When we do become too involved some of us then get battered and bashed for making the decisions we make. Thats fine though, its part of the job and all of us are aware that we aren't here to forge friendships, we have to make the tough decisions.

Crono, what have you done to me, I never respond this much on the forums

Crono · #21 07-26-2008, 11:03 PM

So when the backstage problems are solved, we should expect some form of quality control to be enforced from the PWA? Atleast something to help push the standards of Graal just a little bit? Also, I noticed you said that you don't deal with issues related with GK, Zone 3D servers or iphone, but do what about Classic?

Heh, what can I say?

Bell · #22 07-26-2008, 11:43 PM

Yes, once the backstage problems are settled and things have a chance to become a little less confusing you should see a noticeable difference in our presence and quality control.

Classic is what I call a 'limbo' server. Its client support is handled entirely by us but some issues relating to it we still get approval/disapproval confirmations through Ibonic or Stefan since it was the original Graal owned server.

xXziroXx · #23 07-27-2008, 12:10 AM

USDing in itself isn't against Graal's rules though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rules of Conduct

Any exchange of materials outside GraalOnline secured exchange locations, falls under the term 'caveat emptor', or 'buyer beware.' In other words, GraalOnline will not be responsible for rectifying broken promises, incomplete trades, etc. in such a setting. If trading outside Graal 'sanctioned' trading locations, trade only with players you can trust.

However, if might be against the rules of some playerworlds. Even if it's not, staff might warn/ban you for massing or talking in public about it.

Cyberjoueurs doesn't support it nor recommend it, but that's not the same as not being allowed.

But alas, you were talking about spawned (aka unlegit items created by a staff member) items being sold - that'd be a banhammer case any time in my book.

Minoc · #24 07-27-2008, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

USDing in itself isn't against Graal's rules though.

Please don't use USD as a verb.

warp2ukew · #25 07-27-2008, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minoc

Please don't use USD as a verb.

choir "AMEN!" /choir

[email protected] · #26 07-27-2008, 12:32 AM

yes [staff spawned - illegal]

Sonniku4 · #27 07-27-2008, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono

What exactly is the role of the PWA team?

To piss the managers and everyone under them off.

...I have experience.

WanDaMan · #28 07-27-2008, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://wiki.graal.net/index.php/PWA

The Playerworld Administration Team, or, as it is more commonly abbreviated, PWA, handles routine playerworld administration tasks such as renaming worlds, collecting and handling complaints and questions, arbitrating global disputes, and helping when worlds are maliciously damaged.

Clockwork · #29 07-27-2008, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WanDaMan

Ya, but you can't trust that. Read under it...

"Reminder: PWA are also easily reached at the Support Center"

Demisis_P2P · #30 07-28-2008, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clockwork

Ya, but you can't trust that. Read under it...

"Reminder: PWA are also easily reached at the Support Center"

If you want a PWA just log on Era. We seriously can not get rid of them (we've tried).

farte6 · #31 07-27-2008, 11:35 PM

Lol Who cares about the PWA, they arnt making the game better I tell you that much.

Clockwork · #32 07-28-2008, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farte6

Lol Who cares about the PWA, they arnt making the game better I tell you that much.

Yes, they are. :o

Inverness · #33 07-28-2008, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farte6

Lol Who cares about the PWA, they arnt making the game better I tell you that much.

Your excessive ignorance is disgusting.

farte6 · #34 07-30-2008, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inverness

Your excessive ignorance is disgusting.

I don't think I'm that ignorant when it comes to lol this "game". If you even wanna call it that now. Its more of a glorified chatroom. But fact is, the PWA are not developing anything for this "game"(Ya know content). Development pleases to player base and thus they arnt pleasing the player base.

O and obviously the majority of the owners of graal servers are not pleased with the PWA, nor do half of them even need them.

But ya know, Im very ignorant. Im sure they are Graals....holy Graal.

Inverness · #35 07-30-2008, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farte6

I don't think I'm that ignorant when it comes to lol this "game". If you even wanna call it that now. Its more of a glorified chatroom. But fact is, the PWA are not developing anything for this "game"(Ya know content). Development pleases to player base and thus they arnt pleasing the player base.

O and obviously the majority of the owners of graal servers are not pleased with the PWA, nor do half of them even need them.

But ya know, Im very ignorant. Im sure they are Graals....holy Graal.

Its not the PWA's job to develop.

You should actually learn what the PWA's job is before you criticize them for not doing it.

farte6 · #36 07-30-2008, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inverness

Its not the PWA's job to develop.

You should actually learn what the PWA's job is before you criticize them for not doing it.

...Im pretty sure the entire point of me saying this was that the PWA was useless because they're job did not require developing at all. Not only that but what they are required to do they rarely do at all, yet alone well.

Wtf do I know though? Ive only developed and played with this community since the dawn on time.

Im just trying to say they dont make anything better at all, as in ya know...saving the community.

DustyPorViva · #37 07-30-2008, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farte6

I don't think I'm that ignorant when it comes to lol this "game". If you even wanna call it that now. Its more of a glorified chatroom. But fact is, the PWA are not developing anything for this "game"(Ya know content). Development pleases to player base and thus they arnt pleasing the player base.

O and obviously the majority of the owners of graal servers are not pleased with the PWA, nor do half of them even need them.

But ya know, Im very ignorant. Im sure they are Graals....holy Graal.

"You totally own half these nubs on here."

excaliber7388 · #38 07-30-2008, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inverness

Did you make your quests in such a way that they didn't have to wander all around to find them? In the case of an RPG type server I would have a tutorial quest start when you first login that shows you the ropes, then it would point you in the direction of your first real quest and things would go on from there in a chain.
The short bus kind of special, right?

There was a tutorial from the first level. -_-

DustyPorViva · #39 07-28-2008, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farte6

Lol Who cares about the PWA, they arnt making the game better I tell you that much.

I'm going to pronounce your account name as "Fart" everytime I see you post, just to humor myself.

Bell · #40 07-28-2008, 05:03 AM

Thats cause Era is so speshul Dem.