My Kingdom for a GST!

[Tyhm]

A lot of the ideas I'm seeing for new Playerworlds lately could be qualified as Genres...and they're not being developed because (IMHO) it's just too much hassle to wrestle Graal into being something it's not. More to the point, people are wasting their time re-developing something a rival server's already made...

For instance, say Fred and Shawn both want to make a Megaman clone server. Fred wants to make classic Megaman II, Shawn wants to make his Megaman X - no major conflict there, (not that it should matter because Fred and Shawn should be bringing in newbies instead of stealing each others' playerbase...but that's another issue entirely). So (continuing the example), Fred makes an awesome jump-and-run script: it's smooth, it handles slopes flawlessly, it uses projectiles to emulate movement so people are animated even during lagstorms, it's brilliant. Shawn makes a crap Jump-and-run script, focusing instead on awesome Boss Weapons, making a great cut-blade script, a new twist on the Bubble Lead, etcetera. Fred starts working on weapons, realizes he hasn't even started on baddies, and gives up. Shawn realizes his movement script is crap and isn't going to work with baddies, and he quits too. Two perfectly good worlds scrapped, and they died before they made any content beyond The Default Systems.

To counteract this, I think it's high time the GST was brought back to life and charged with the task of building these Default Worlds. Graal's got some awesome scripters once again, many of whom are languishing working for a single server, or under a manager they disagree with, or on a vision that's not their own...I say, let's get them some servers, make some freakin' stick figure ganis and graphics as they need 'em, find some way they can transfer over these defaults onto new servers as they're created, let 'em go to town. At least then we'll all be speaking the same server-language for ambitious future projects like Baddies. -_-;

First and foremost, there ought to be a Default Zelda World. It seems silly - and in fact it Is ridiculous - that there could be any difficulty in making a Zelda-themed server, but every single server on the list had to make their own movement script, damage script, money-anti-hacking script, bow, bomb, explosion, baddies and walking NPCs (if they even have any), push-pull block script, horses/cars/motorcycles, everything had to be built from scratch - and these are The Most Basic Elements Possible. I mean, time was you could just drag these things into the editor, and servers are being put up now that don't even have 'em...and Graal's whole charm is supposed to come from it being The Editable Zelda Online Game, right?

Once we got the Default Zelda Scripts up, what's next? Sky's the limit, what other genres are there?
Platformer, that'd be nice...
Iit'd be great if we could make Kingdoms-esque RPG servers, dunno what the license is like on the latest iteration of the Database Server though...
Bad Dudes/Tiger Road/Contra/Simpsons/Battletoads/TMNT/River City Ransom style walk-and-fight sidescrollers...
Racing servers, natch - overhead and maybe platformer of those too (ExciteBike!)...
What about the overhead-view down-scrolling flying games, I dunno what the genre's called but the Zero Wing/Gondomania/Gladius/1942 games? I dunno how one could make that multiplayer per se (since it's so strongly One Direction), but that'd be cool...
Mike Tyson's Punchout would just be weird...
Wrestlemania server? What was that one wrestlin' game with the Amazon who was a fishman that bit peoples' heads...?
Fighting games in general...it'd be limited, but a Street Fighter server could still be cool...
RTS games...the amount of NPCScripting would be prohibitive, but what if you could join an army and command a division of NPC Grunts? Then when you log off, someone else takes command of Light Infantry Alpha One?

So I guess my questions to the community are, Should there be a GST to give servers this headstart, and If so, what other genres should be available to develop? There are countless variations on the themes - Platformer covers Mario to Metroid and onwards...

[Gambet]

Or how about original themes in which Graal doesn't violate any copyrights?


I don't think the answer lies in copying themes from other games. The answer lies in originality, and things that the players havn't seen before.

[Tyhm]

*shrugs* I suppose that's valid. Alright, name one. Name an "Original Theme" that doesn't share a genre with anything else ever, and Katamari Damacy doesn't count.

[Andy0687]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

Katamari Damacy

Shares a theme with games like PickupSticks or a child cleaning their bedroom :P They had to take inspiration from somewhere. Nothing is ever so completely unique that it dosent draw something from somewhere else.

[Tyhm]

Right, that's my point - these are Examples of Genres, I'm talking about getting representative templates for the various genres from which new games can be extrapolated. An Indiana Jones server would be unoriginal and copyrighted, a Grappling Hook/Whip for Platformers would be useful on a number of original servers.

[Gambet]

Well, your inspirations come from other games, of course, but the magic is how far you develop those inspirations by turning them into your own creations.

[Tyhm]

Originally Posted by Gambet

Well, your inspirations come from other games, of course, but the magic is how far you develop those inspirations by turning them into your own creations.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Which is why we need a starting point to develop from. Or rather, several starting points.

An overhead view engine, for all the games with overhead views that inspire us. Not necessarily cleaving to Zelda - it's been well established you can do dang near anything with an Overhead View engine.

A 3/4 view engine, for our very own Goldenaxe variant...I've really only ever seen it used for One vs. Many sidescrolling fighters (/coineaters), but in a MMO it might actually be superior to Platformer in terms of "Walking Around Each Other"

A platformer engine, for all the platformer games we could do a better job at. Take a cue from Smash Bros Melee, and have a kung fu master throwing aura/fireballs through a dungeon...but with custom character creation, you aren't even limited to the extensive Nintendo stables...

A RTS engine, for all the RTS worlds in our heads. BomyCraft. Kingdoms Tactics. It's not really "overhead", as the "overhead" tools will avail you not.

FPS - umm, well, it's worth mentioning I guess, but better suited to Graal 3D methinks.

Then I guess there'd be another category for Tools within genres.

Racing - you can't really make a racing server without either optimizing level-links or making a virtual track within a level (see also the Classic Train)...if you're making a virtual track, you may as well call it another genre - but on the other hand, a serveroption that lets you choose between Optimize for level link vs. Optimize for NPCs (the NPCs might not load the whole script on the Race Track GMAP or something, but no matter how fast a player crosses it they don't Glitch Out)...or the whole map has to load, with every NPC in every level and every level link in memory before it lets the player "go"...prefetching/precaching, something like that, I dunno. If there's a way to zip across a GMAP, the rest of the view's tools should work fine in a racing server...and that'd be interesting, a server where you can outrun your projectiles, where you can fire a grappling hook to corner in a hurry, maybe a Sonic-style one where it's platforming at the speed of light...

RPG Database - It's entirely possible Stefan's already given us access to the tools to make a RPG with a whole vast database of Trolloc Hides and Vitriol Spheres, but I'd sure be at a loss to make use of it. But if there was a way I could start a server with a platform engine and a database (even a database of samples, like "Goldgelat - mineral - worth 100g - item - 0.01#") I'd be months ahead of the game, and my hypothetical playerworld would be far more likely to ever see the light of day.

Turnbased Battle System - Useful in any view. Interesting outside of Overhead View.

I'm sure I'm forgetting vast arrays of video games. I mean, there are board games, but those are better suited to Flashifying...but if you wanted to make a Battle Chess Board, you'd just need Turnbased and either the RTS Overhead or some really clever custom scripting and exceptionally patient pawns...(the fact that GoldenUrg managed to make one for Starcraft proves it can be done anywhere)

The point is, with these proposed tools future developers can move even faster to mixing and matching, making a Classicstyle world with an overhead view where an RTS race of plantcreatures are taking over the map...or a 3/4 view turn-based RPG where a crew of ninja catstronauts try to take control of a battlestation infested with a race of space pirate amoebas that steal the powers of anything they defeat...you get the idea.

(The real joke is that there are elements of Graal that would gladly donate the necessary scripts to make such defaults...but they can't afford a server just to make A Default, and even if they did they'd have to copy-and-paste it into the vaults of graal.net, where nobody'd be able to figure out how to paste it all back in the right order...we Really need some way to backup a server locally and, optionally, transfer it to another server)

[_Z3phyr_]

If you're really worried about copyright infringement then alter some of the graphics and rename it to Graal2006.

[Andy0687]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

Turnbased Battle System - Useful in any view. Interesting outside of Overhead View.

Difficult and fun to make! Id like to buy a server to finish mine, i think it could change graal in a ton of ways

[Twinny]

Tactics Ogre style? I've always loved Tactics Orge - Knight of Lodis.

The server i'm developing on, currently named, Bomymon draws influences from alot of games but no real specific game. While elements may seem similar, the storyline differs completely.

[Crono]

MY KINGDOM FOR A HORSE!

i think i saw that quote on medieval total war 2. tyhm you really need to make one thread called "Tyme's Big Posts" and have the moderators lock it then you pm them your huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge posts and they copy paste it. :P!

[Tyhm]

*shrugs* I'm not sorry. My posts would be half as long if I thought I could communicate the concepts without resorting to examples, but every time I try that someone says something incongruous in reply, such as "...but we already have a level editor, duh." Or "we don't need another Zelda clone".

But since we're just going to discuss how long Tyhm's posts are, perhaps I should start a new thread. Godforbid anyone should consider that Tyhm might just possibly have a point, let alone that his theory has a basis which bears discussion.

[Rapidwolve]

Don't you get tired of writing so much? X_X

[Tyhm]

...
*twitch* *twitch*

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

Godforbid anyone should consider that Tyhm might just possibly have a point, let alone that his theory has a basis which bears discussion.

Heh, it's kind of hard to follow when it's so long all the time. Then again you usually are right so whatever.