PC is dead. Will it ever....

[elite_master]

PC is dead. Will it ever come back? I don't think.. All of the attention is focused to the iPhone/Android Development. It's sad...

[devilsknite1]

Regardless of the focus of development, the game had its prime years upon years ago. Now it really is simply not inviting to new players, nor is it marketed all that well. If that changes, then perhaps there will be an increase of players, but until then, it probably is not likely.

[Cubical]

make your own game and call it "graaa1 internet" and use rpg maker graphics

[Anero]

Being able to play wherever you are is pretty convenient.
I think that's the main reason why the iOS servers are much more popular.

It's sad for sure, but the old generation is slowly but surely disappearing.

[Crow]

Originally Posted by Anero

Being able to play wherever you are is pretty convenient.
I think that's the main reason why the iOS servers are much more popular.

It's sad for sure, but the old generation is slowly but surely disappearing.

filthy casul

[Kamaeru]

It died in like 2003. UN doesn't count.

[scriptless]

Originally Posted by Anero

Being able to play wherever you are is pretty convenient.
I think that's the main reason why the iOS servers are much more popular.

It's sad for sure, but the old generation is slowly but surely disappearing.

I think mobility does play some role in it but then again the actual physical quality of an iOS server vs a PC server shows that the iOS server quality is bit better. Then to top it off you don't even need to advertise your game its super super easily found in the app stores as opposed to how you accidetnly find something amongst the 100 trillion pc's hooked up to the world wide web. Simply put theres no advertisement on pc, theres not the same quality for all pc servers only a few.. and its not as portable (except everyone uses laptops these days anyways).

Something I found odd, people turn graal sounds off religiously.. o.O I'm like whoa they don't wanna be like in the game.. they just want the game running.. then there own music or there own tv show.. and next thing you know there player hasn't moved 16 hours and there still sitting in bomboria trade on graal kingdoms.. multi-tasking on the internet has devastated mankind ability to focus on just 1 task. back in the days of dialup you got on graal and thats all you did and you prayed it could handle it.. now we have like 15 tabs open in our web browser thats open while the game is.. xD with 5 chat windows open not even paying attention to graal. then we just throw a fit when theres a low player count because we demand more people witness how lazy were are just idling xD

[Crono]

When they let people log onto iClassic through the normal PC client Graal would be more alive than ever.

[Cubical]

beating dat dead bush with another dead bush

[Kamaeru]

Originally Posted by Crono

When they let people log onto iClassic through the normal PC client Graal would be more alive than ever.

Wasn't this promised at the beginning?

[Elk]

Originally Posted by Kamaeru

Wasn't this promised at the beginning?

id be online more often too

[MattKan]

No. Everybody said that Graal PC would be saved once observer mode was removed and the forums became free. Those things happened, a few people blinked.

I think it's time to make iOS servers accessible via the client.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by MattKan

No. Everybody said that Graal PC would be saved once observer mode was removed and the forums became free. Those things happened, a few people blinked.

Eh, if trial restrictions ****ed off back when iClassic was first released, PC Graal would have been in a better place.

[Tim_Rocks]

I think if those restrictions were lifted sooner that we'd whistling to a different tune.

[scriptless]

Originally Posted by Tim_Rocks

I think if those restrictions were lifted sooner that we'd whistling to a different tune.

Maybe different tune but still singing in the same key. I think a bigger problem ws the fact that all the servers up until then were open world based. You just came across quests randomly as you explored. Back in the late 90's and early 2000's yes this could hold it's own. But after the internet boom, and the major shift from dialup to cable or even dsl people's eyes started opening up to other cool games. People began to multi-task online more and it distanced the player from the actual game. And who blames them? Back in the day you were lucky to download a half dozen mp3's, and you could take a crap in the time it took to open another web page.

The only way PC graal will be saved is if everyone works together to improve the general overall quality of the product. I know a lot of people hate cutscenes and stuff. But there kinda important aspect of the game. After all look at all the major games being released. These multi-million and multi-billion dollar gaming companies certainly wouldn't go full retard and put something in there product if they knew it was that bad of an idea especially having used them for many many years. A great example to this would probably be the new Zelda for Wii U. Which is a game so recent to todays times its not even out yet xD

I just wish Graal the Adventure PC, fccmike's version would have inspired more people to create quality. Also, delteria did a pretty good job on the RPG front, but we lack other genre's now. Adventure has been lost. Era does well with the whole modern aspect. But we really don't have a whole lot of options.

[Cubical]

i vote for more restrictions but at the same time even less restrictions

[scriptless]

I've always said don't blame the restrictions.GK Goes from 80 players a day where trials got reset all items and stats wiped every time they disconnected.. To everything is free to a certain level. And the player count goes from 80... to 8.. lol Also noticed that the average player level went from 40 to 110.. but still. Every update I see on a server is just another attempt to reinvent the wheel. (okay guys lets make this dungeon better then ever).. It's a dungeon and I'm 110.. o.O I logged on to see the ice boss in the new dungeon on gk.. not log on to actually fight him.. just seeing I'm was pretty cool. Almost felt like a true story. or at least 0.01% more.

Theres only really 3 things staff on graal focus on. Level up, Get items, and Community Ecosystem. Problem is I don't even know why I am leveling up.. to fight other people? oh sorry I'm playing the wrong game then because id rather do that in 3d.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by scriptless

I've always said don't blame the restrictions.GK Goes from 80 players a day where trials got reset all items and stats wiped every time they disconnected..

There were a lot of poor decisions made between when GK had 80+ players on average and what it has now. It didn't happen overnight.

There have been a lot of factors that kind of ran the server into the ground.

Originally Posted by scriptless

To everything is free to a certain level. And the player count goes from 80... to 8.. lol Also noticed that the average player level went from 40 to 110.. but still.

Theres only really 3 things staff on graal focus on. Level up, Get items, and Community Ecosystem. Problem is I don't even know why I am leveling up.. to fight other people? oh sorry I'm playing the wrong game then because id rather do that in 3d.

Wouldn't be such a problem if GK was built to actually have anything to do at max level.

[fowlplay4]

Originally Posted by Cubical

i vote for more restrictions but at the same time even less restrictions

i'll never forgot stefan's last words to me as he left to on his pilgrimage to defeat Sin.

"call them subscription benefits not restrictions"

[Jakov_the_Jakovasaur]

Originally Posted by Cubical

i vote for more restrictions but at the same time even less restrictions

i vote for a restriction on restrictions!

[Kamaeru]

Originally Posted by Draenin

There were a lot of poor decisions made between when GK had 80+ players on average and what it has now. It didn't happen overnight.

There have been a lot of factors that kind of ran the server into the ground.

Wouldn't be such a problem if GK was built to actually have anything to do at max level.

2k2 was a mistake.

I remember day 1, it was a completely different game. It was going to be way sweeter. They should have stuck with the initial vision.

[PhantosP2P]

Originally Posted by MattKan

No. Everybody said that Graal PC would be saved once observer mode was removed and the forums became free. Those things happened, a few people blinked.

I think it's time to make iOS servers accessible via the client.

Observer being removed helped change our community for the better on Valikorlia, and it put the onus on us for getting people interested. Advertising the core PC client is GraalOnline's job, but our FREE server is ours to bring to the attention of the masses. That reddit thread worked for a nostalgia bump for us but it wasn't the savior of the community. Nor was it really ever expected to be, at least not by us.

Still, our management team feels like we're in limbo right now. No one thinks to even check these forums for up to date information. We're not exactly approached for input on things like "Playerworld Server Requirements" with stealth updates made in January 15 for a thread made in 09.

Not having any input whatsoever makes us feel little better than players with an unpaid internship. We don't know how much it costs GraalOnline to host us, nor are we considered people who should know or be worried/interested/invested. Half of my 30 years spent working here and I know so little.

I am eagerly awaiting the day that the GraalOnline reps tell us that we're going to be FB accessible. When that day comes, I'm not going to stand for periods of inactivity or "poor" looking front-ends. If PC is dead and it gets another shock with the paddles, it'll be on us for it staying dead.

But I want a shock, not a shot in the arm.

[MysticalDragon]

Originally Posted by PhantosP2P

Observer being removed helped change our community for the better on Valikorlia, and it put the onus on us for getting people interested. Advertising the core PC client is GraalOnline's job, but our FREE server is ours to bring to the attention of the masses. That reddit thread worked for a nostalgia bump for us but it wasn't the savior of the community. Nor was it really ever expected to be, at least not by us.

Still, our management team feels like we're in limbo right now. No one thinks to even check these forums for up to date information. We're not exactly approached for input on things like "Playerworld Server Requirements" with stealth updates made in January 15 for a thread made in 09.

Not having any input whatsoever makes us feel little better than players with an unpaid internship. We don't know how much it costs GraalOnline to host us, nor are we considered people who should know or be worried/interested/invested. Half of my 30 years spent working here and I know so little.

I am eagerly awaiting the day that the GraalOnline reps tell us that we're going to be FB accessible. When that day comes, I'm not going to stand for periods of inactivity or "poor" looking front-ends. If PC is dead and it gets another shock with the paddles, it'll be on us for it staying dead.

But I want a shock, not a shot in the arm.

Weird, i drop by valikorlia from time to time, and everyone is afk. Like i explained to the administration there 6 months ago, i would love to see valikorlia go to facebook. There really is no set in stone requirements, we accomplished it with delteria. Your team just needs to take the initiative a show your interested in heading the fb route.

[PhantosP2P]

Do you have any sort of guideline or requirements or any documentation whatsoever for what is required to be properly seen as showing "initiative"?

[MysticalDragon]

Pretty much small amount to no timeouts, facebook client cant handle them. Only one transition at a time when using particle effects, when you use more then one the particles don't render on facebook. Thats pretty much it besides you need to adjust your systems for full screen mode. Creativity is a plus but valikorlia already has that.

[Cubical]

Can I make a server that is solely about mining and get it on Facebook? The goal would be to mine more rocks than anyone else. You will also be able to steal other players rocks.

[Darugo]

I'm kind of out the loop... so the PC client is not merged with any other client? Who works on the game currently?

[shrimps]

Originally Posted by Darugo

I'm kind of out the loop... so the PC client is not merged with any other client? Who works on the game currently?

For the players by the players.

[Tim_Rocks]

Originally Posted by Darugo

I'm kind of out the loop... so the PC client is not merged with any other client? Who works on the game currently?

The client should be open source.

[Elk]

id be willing to develop for $$$

nn showcase/publicity

[super_matt89]

Originally Posted by Elk

id be willing to develop for $$$

nn showcase/publicity

I just imagined an Elk kickstarter haha. I would contribute.

PC still has life in it in my opinion and still very much potential it is just hindered by the lack of support..
There are many eager people that come and go but I'm almost certain anyone of them would stop in again
if they heard that they could be taught GScript 2 or specific development skills. With the right support PC Graal
could be bigger than it ever was in the past, there are certain combinational aspects
I am sure you can all agree are not found in any other online game.

[Cubes]

Once PC graal bites the dust we should make a clone called grrrrilllll and we can start sparing in dresses with spatulas

[Urahara112]

Bring back UDP. It's essential for PVP. The connection is too crap without it.

[Spiker]

Originally Posted by super_matt89

I just imagined an Elk kickstarter haha. I would contribute.

PC still has life in it in my opinion and still very much potential it is just hindered by the lack of support..
There are many eager people that come and go but I'm almost certain anyone of them would stop in again
if they heard that they could be taught GScript 2 or specific development skills. With the right support PC Graal
could be bigger than it ever was in the past, there are certain combinational aspects
I am sure you can all agree are not found in any other online game.

This. This right here.

[bradigger]

The community is an important part of any MMO. I know my friends pretty much only played while I did, and I haven't been able to play for around a year due to the forced update to get on the login server combined with the seemingly abandoned GNU/Linux client. I check the downloads page as well as the forum pretty frequently in hopes of being able to play. I don't usually subscribe to the belief of "better late than never", but I would make a bit of an exception for Graal, considering it's one of my favorite games of all time.

The devs are clearly not getting done as much as they should. There's currently a public-facing download for a client that is essentially broken. Not only that, but it says right there that it was last updated in 2012, while the other two PC platforms have had more recent updates and can play just fine. If you dig into the forums you'll see myself and several others complaining with no signs of a solution. There are a lot of problems right now that could probably be solved in a week or two.

That major issue aside, the website is honestly quite bad. This isn't just nostalgia on my part, although I do think the older site looked better, the purple kid-friendly theme that was adopted is both uglier and harder to navigate. It's also been untouched for several years and still advertises subscriptions that I don't believe are still around. You should be able to easily access the forums or the downloads page with a single click, but instead you have to choose from playerworlds/zone/whatever before getting to downloads. It just shows you different crap and adds an unnecessary step. As for the forums, despite removing the restriction that required a gold membership to post on the forums, you still have to jump through a message telling you that you need gold but that if you really want to you can view the forums as a guest.

I'm glad Graal isn't dead for real, but it sure as heck looks dead from the outside. We need some new player relations people to let the community what's going on. We need a good web dev, new client devs, clarification on if anyone is even actually working on anything these days, and if this sounds impossible, perhaps it'd be best to just slap the game under the GPL and really give the players control. Let us submit some pull requests to fix these issues. It should be obvious by now that there are people on the forums who are capable of developing things for the game but are not able to because of the closed source nature and hush-hush administration who barely talks to us.

[Cubes]

when i look for games to play i always check forum activity. if the forum is dead chances are so is the game

[mattdapimp]

Originally Posted by Cubes

Once PC graal bites the dust we should make a clone called grrrrilllll and we can start sparing in dresses with spatulas

I'm down, this would be a 5 star game!

[Spiker]

Originally Posted by mattdapimp

I'm down, this would be a 5 star game!

11/10 would play for 15 years again

[scriptless]

Originally Posted by bradigger

The community is an important part of any MMO. I know my friends pretty much only played while I did, and I haven't been able to play for around a year due to the forced update to get on the login server combined with the seemingly abandoned GNU/Linux client. I check the downloads page as well as the forum pretty frequently in hopes of being able to play. I don't usually subscribe to the belief of "better late than never", but I would make a bit of an exception for Graal, considering it's one of my favorite games of all time.

The devs are clearly not getting done as much as they should. There's currently a public-facing download for a client that is essentially broken. Not only that, but it says right there that it was last updated in 2012, while the other two PC platforms have had more recent updates and can play just fine. If you dig into the forums you'll see myself and several others complaining with no signs of a solution. There are a lot of problems right now that could probably be solved in a week or two.

That major issue aside, the website is honestly quite bad. This isn't just nostalgia on my part, although I do think the older site looked better, the purple kid-friendly theme that was adopted is both uglier and harder to navigate. It's also been untouched for several years and still advertises subscriptions that I don't believe are still around. You should be able to easily access the forums or the downloads page with a single click, but instead you have to choose from playerworlds/zone/whatever before getting to downloads. It just shows you different crap and adds an unnecessary step. As for the forums, despite removing the restriction that required a gold membership to post on the forums, you still have to jump through a message telling you that you need gold but that if you really want to you can view the forums as a guest.

I'm glad Graal isn't dead for real, but it sure as heck looks dead from the outside. We need some new player relations people to let the community what's going on. We need a good web dev, new client devs, clarification on if anyone is even actually working on anything these days, and if this sounds impossible, perhaps it'd be best to just slap the game under the GPL and really give the players control. Let us submit some pull requests to fix these issues. It should be obvious by now that there are people on the forums who are capable of developing things for the game but are not able to because of the closed source nature and hush-hush administration who barely talks to us.

You make a lot of valid points. Yes the community is important to a MMO however there needs to be some emphasis on playability that extends beyond MMO for times which lower player counts will be reached. I proposed servers upped there quality to something more similar to Graal The Adventure. Which IMO should have been your showcase/flagship server for pc. I like how you focused on the "MMO" part and didn't add "RPG", because In my opinion the competition for an RPG based server is much greater then a Action Adventure server.

I don't use linux often but I am kinda a bit disappointed by the lack of the Linux client. Luckily and happily I use a mac as my main machine and a windows pc as my secondary. Times that I use linux I am usually on an ARM architect which wouldn't run traditional desktop applications. (such as the raspberry pi)

I also completely agree that a lot of dev work that should be getting done is not. And I am not just talking about other dev's, I myself also, not getting stuff done. I also completely agree that the new website is hard to navigate and the fact that you have to navigate to other pages to download is pretty embarrassing, but not as embracing as the subscription's that you mentioned that have no use now. But one thing I kinda disagree with is that the site is ugly. It's not ugly it just has a different taste that might not fit your's. I myself kinda like the look but the navigation and consistency is just terrible.

I also don't know if making the game open source is the way to go. They still use a lot of proprietary stuff in there mobile games that could be compromised. It just wouldn't make sense from a business perspective. However I do think they should have more dedicated staff/employee structure, as well as greater communications to the general public.

This is a game that we have all played over a decade, yet has anyone actually seen any advertisement? I heard about it from a friend (word of mouth). At the same time if someone tried advertising the current quality of the game my impressions would be tainted by the lack of quality so much so that I would hear about the game a year or 2 later and just not even click to see the updates or news.. I would just have this prejudice of a tainted quality towards the game.

[bradigger]

Originally Posted by scriptless

You make a lot of valid points. Yes the community is important to a MMO however there needs to be some emphasis on playability that extends beyond MMO for times which lower player counts will be reached. I proposed servers upped there quality to something more similar to Graal The Adventure. Which IMO should have been your showcase/flagship server for pc. I like how you focused on the "MMO" part and didn't add "RPG", because In my opinion the competition for an RPG based server is much greater then a Action Adventure server.

I don't use linux often but I am kinda a bit disappointed by the lack of the Linux client. Luckily and happily I use a mac as my main machine and a windows pc as my secondary. Times that I use linux I am usually on an ARM architect which wouldn't run traditional desktop applications. (such as the raspberry pi)

I also completely agree that a lot of dev work that should be getting done is not. And I am not just talking about other dev's, I myself also, not getting stuff done. I also completely agree that the new website is hard to navigate and the fact that you have to navigate to other pages to download is pretty embarrassing, but not as embracing as the subscription's that you mentioned that have no use now. But one thing I kinda disagree with is that the site is ugly. It's not ugly it just has a different taste that might not fit your's. I myself kinda like the look but the navigation and consistency is just terrible.

I also don't know if making the game open source is the way to go. They still use a lot of proprietary stuff in there mobile games that could be compromised. It just wouldn't make sense from a business perspective. However I do think they should have more dedicated staff/employee structure, as well as greater communications to the general public.

This is a game that we have all played over a decade, yet has anyone actually seen any advertisement? I heard about it from a friend (word of mouth). At the same time if someone tried advertising the current quality of the game my impressions would be tainted by the lack of quality so much so that I would hear about the game a year or 2 later and just not even click to see the updates or news.. I would just have this prejudice of a tainted quality towards the game.

One issue I have with Graal the Adventure, or Classic as I know it better by, is that it's extremely linear. Last time the server was actually live and playable on the main list it was like a bunch of us were playing together through the game and there was a lot to do besides the story. That, I am fine with. I'm just worried that they've taken a different turn and are focusing 100% on the story. I like idling in large groups in some sort of central location. I like pking and socializing and such. I basically don't want Classic to get rid of a lot of what it had in common with Unholy Nation and other server.s

I'm fine that you disagree with the site being ugly. Mostly because you're treating it as a separate issue from the site being hard to navigate. I have no issue with the color purple or a lot of the theme the site has going. I definitely prefer the old look, but if the site was overhauled and stuck with a similar theme, that'd be great as well.

I believe strongly in free software, and also open source software, but I'm totally fine with the game not being open source. My issue here is that the game feels dead and abandoned. This is the PERFECT opportunity to open source a game. It's already mostly handled by players. If the alternative is the game not being kept up to date (look at the GNU/Linux client that hasn't been updated in three years for example), then I think open sourcing it is the way to go. I don't mind this not happening if they Graal team starts actually getting things done again.

I'm not sure I want advertisements. I see what you're saying, and I can see some benefits as well, such as bringing in more people to play and/or work on the game. I just think that when you start to advertise and bring in tons of new people the quality is sure to go down. Graal may be dead and the staff may be screwing around recently, but I actually really enjoy the game and its current quality. If I was able to play right now I could entertain myself for months on Era or Unholy Nation. Zodiac may have even changed enough by now that I could get back into that again.

You mentioned you're a developer.. Are you a developer on one of the servers or for the game itself? I see your description says scripter which makes me think you mean the former, but I'm super desperate to get some confirmation on what's going on with the GNU/Linux client, so if you had some way to contact the higher ups, that'd just make my day, or year even.