Gun Statistics
 

:confused:

So, the gun stats got balanced.
Again.
For the XYZ'th time.
Just mere months ago.

But I don't think the administration has learned anything from the previous XYZ attempts.

Once again, multiple parties are modifying stats of random guns sporadically.
New guns are being created, without even a slight glance at the molds created within the balancing.
Previously unreleased guns are filtering into the game, without ample modification; or in most cases, without even checking the gun script.

The worst part?
A majority of these guns are free use.
Guns you obtain simply by joining a gang, with no effort required, now highly out-class almost every possible option of weaponry that can be properly earned.

Just a quick check before I hopped off the staff team shows how bad this issue is. Four of these 'gang guns' have exact carbon copy and paste statistics; that of the Mp5 Navy.. which is the most expensive gun you can obtain through a monetary shop purchase. Many more even out-class (have better stats than) their best subjective counterparts of gun 'type' (shotgun, handguns, etc.)

The game play quality has dropped almost as far as the skill-cap over the past week+. This behavior of gun editing needs to cease and be remedied. Someone with actual in-game (player) knowledge needs to oversee guns and standardize anything that tries to work its way onto the server so there are no anomalies.

I'd like to actually have to try when pking, and perhaps see some significantly positive effect of being better than the player against me... rather than just having a mindless shootout, holding D and not being hampered in the slightest with these ridiculous statistics.

tl;dr
Stats are getting ****ed up again, and no one with even the slightest bit of knowledge concerning guns is overseeing these modifications. It needs to be controlled and standardized, or the game play will [continue to] suffer.
:asleep:

I'd like to offer my services :)

Also, you don't HAVE to use no-skill guns. Try using an uzi.

I do generally use higher skill-cap weaponry.
My hot-keyed selection of weapons is all semi-automatic. With my most used weapon (z key) being bound to an M1 Carbine that I obtained for free.

This personal use and preference doesn't deter me from obtaining significant kill streaks every life, even against [normally] armored targets, and bomb lamers. Or from landing a cool 2-3:1 KD ratio even through the lamest depths of gang events/bhpk/raiding.

However, this is not in the least bit fun for myself. I doubt even less-so for those players who can't pull this off. (The currently online members of our elite gang all generally agree).

If it isn't fun for the best players on the server, then how can facing an entire guild, equipped (for free mind you) with the highest caliber of weaponry on the server, be fun for anybody? Especially those lone players who actually earned their tier of weapons, just to have copies handed out for free with no rhyme of reason behind it?

:confused:

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, you're saying that guns that don't take skill aren't fun, and guns that do take skill aren't fun.

sources:
"The game play quality has dropped almost as far as the skill-cap over the past week+." -talking about gang guns.
"However, this is not in the least bit fun for myself." -talking about using an M1/whatever other guns you have hotkeyed.

This is just a vicious circle that has been going on for years now. They change the stats, leave then somebody else comes alone and then changes them again. Also when new guns get created people with no gun stat knowledge is allowed to edit and attempt to 'balance' them.

Let's be honest here, the guys with the guns/stat knowledge... There is none in our staff team.

Fiber, pretty sure you 'offered your services' a while back and were guns admin? I'm not saying anything here, i'm just curious as to what you did that made the guns any better than what they are now?

i havn't been playing much lately, which new OP guns have been released? i know by fact that the event shop gun with 22 dmg is OP compared to TG and SG552 which are the most similar guns which can be compared to it
i actually thought the gun stat balancing was done well for once

Playing the game in general/PKing isn't fun (is it that hard to understand?). No matter how much effort you try to make it require (gun choice), going against entire guilds strapped with free sets of imbalanced weapons is stale and pointless.

Those players aren't gonna see it the same way, they're all going to take the cheapest route to laming you as hard as possible. And these free guns for all of them enables this behavior, which (as quoted) reduces the skill-cap for Era, and makes it less enjoyable.

They don't do anything to earn these weapons, yet these weapons earn them that kill or point. It should be the other way around for both cases; shouldn't it?


Every gang gun they added can be matched to Mp5/AA12/Angels (tops for each 'type') or even better. They're all free.
They just made a custom gang gun the other day; you could say Ares (the event gun u referenced) with 23 damage, auto, faster, and with some colored bullets that are nearly invisible. Also free.
Oh and that Ares gun? The peak of the gun tiers? They buffed it.
MVP guns that are actually limited and difficult to obtain? Nerfed worse than the publicly available versions.

@Koho; Yep.

For one thing, The way I priced guns was a lot more consistent with a gun's stats. Expensive guns were always better than cheap guns, as it should be.

The ACR (850k) is worse than both Shipka (700k) and DR (625k).
The Ove Glove (900k) is a lot worse than the HK416 (325k).
There are probably other examples of that, but those are the ones I know of.

And for another thing, there were a lot more guns. I've seen people complaining on a few occasions that they wished there were more guns (like how there used to be.) In my opinion at least, I made some unique guns, stats-wise.
The Sable, MK14, MP7, XM25, Tempest, etc.

Regarding the availability/pricing of gang guns, didn't gang guns used to cost 125 points ($6,250) a week?

And regarding their stats, would they be much of an incentive to join gangs if they sucked?

They're free now. And even when they were limited by point availability, they were never the best guns on the sever.

Why should the gun be an incentive to join a gang...?
I honestly wouldn't be opposed to giving every gang the same gun.

Gang guns were supposed to be mid-tier decent weapons that are readily available for newer or poorer players to be able to pick up and compete, however if they wanted to use the best weaponry and advance.. they had to earn that gun tier.

These guns shouldn't be used by the richest players on the game as main weapons because they're so ridiculously overpowered that nothing compares.

Where do you get these free gang guns of which you speak? I want to get me some of that Falcon XT3

..........

I remember offering to balance the gun's with Rogue a while ago, we had a pretty solid structure and lay-out of what we wanted done, both of us PKed regularly but unfortunately things change and I guess the gun situation got worse and worse.

Guns that can be acquired for free shouldn't be anything over Teir 2 without being exclusive (Maybe a chance for a gun or something stupid that never happens anymore)

I thought your argument was really valid until I logged on to see you laming with flak and bow, spamming aa12, using your pimp cane (staff only item), and running around with a gang full of super/sewer elixers. Such swag.

Anyways, the gang guns are stupid strong. rr12 is basically aa12 (with a higher fire rate?), osiris pulserifle and lr16 are acrs on steroids (add another projectile but call it balanced) and the massil is, as always, annoying as hell with its grenades and crap. Please make them all tier 2 guns that can still be competitive. It's stupid that any nub can join a gang and get an rr12 to just spam and lame in raids with. Gun stats are one of the main reasons I don't raid/actively PK (I would spar if people still did)

I don't own a flak, despite attempts to buy one, and I made sure to balance flak substantially before leaving the team. And as just stated, I am no longer a Staff member -- PimpStick was auctioned as 3 of a kind. Myself, Koko, and Nas own them.

Little known fact, I actually earned my AA12 through long terms of hard work (20 MVP coins...), very few people can say the same. Beyond that, as stated in an above post, the MVP versions of those 3 guns are inferior to the publicly available ones.

We don't use EC items, we laugh at everyone else and count how many they waste when kids fight us with 190hp, armor, and 2ed lives... yet still don't get a kill. The closest thing you'll see with Mercenary is kill streaks, and lots of them (we normally compare /ks and then I try to blow Arc up whenever he gets 14).

I was basically raiding with a bow the whole day cause conventional guns bore, it was hilariously hard to use and my stats dropped below 3:1.

------
Beyond justification (I didn't want you to lose faith in me <3), the points you made are accurate, and there's a separate thread about sparring; which I don't know why that hasn't happened yet.

------
Beyond confirmation, when confronted with this issue (PMed link to this thread), the manager responded with "That was your job and you quit."

:\

Guess it's not worth bickering about what gang is lame since that's all the game seems to be about anymore. The stats are pretty messed up. One of a kind guns (winchester, ivories) are pretty shitty in comparison to well...everything. The gang guns are stupid strong which makes it so that if you're not in a gang you're not gonna have a good time. Needs fix pls.

Yes and guns that aren't in stores are crappy as well (Morano Thompson)

What I don't get is why all of the sudden it's a big surprise that there's guns that are 'rare' and no longer in shops. As far as I know Era has always been like this. I tried to get rid of rare guns with the GUI mall gun shop, but someone removed it...

It's not that they are rare, it's the fact that they are rare and are tier 1 in comparison to some of these new gang guns. None of these guns have value now that the gang guns are superior in every way.

I personally don't like the direction that gangs guns took. I've always felt they should be neat advantages that can only be taken advantage of in a gang base. For example, possibly a water gun that can soak players, and another gang member would follow with an electric bullet for higher damage. Outside the base the gun is just a regular gun. I've always liked the idea of the Katana and the ninja circle (don't remember what it's actually called), but it would only work in gang bases. Side note, I don't think these gang guns should be allowed in events. The idea is to make the guns only useful in gang events such as raids or weekly tournaments. But you're all welcome to your opinions, thoughts?

I agree Tim. I think that if they provided utility in gang raids or just vs other gang players then they would be balanced (since other gang members would also have utility guns)
I also agree that they shouldn't be allowed in events (or spar for that matter) since they're so easy to lame with and so ridiculously strong in the closed environment.

So Benny changed the stats (supposedly) then mercenary gets a gun added with identical stats to the mp5 navy. What the actual

There are a couple guns that are still basically just MP5s.

and that's ok?
can we get some variety of different attributes (I.e high freeze + high dmg) it seems like the only way a gun is good is if it has .05 freeze.

also there is a problem, well i found it to be a problem, smgpk isnt in shop anymore idk if this was done on purpose or just missed it.

First of all, I didn't say it was ok. I was just pointing out that if Benny's goal was to get rid of MP5-cloned gang guns, he didn't do a very good job.

And second, why would a gang gun be in the shop?

yea fiber i just found out smgpk was in shop and to quite frank, im disappointed in the management of these statistics. ruined the game seriously

If you were good at pking, gun stats wouldn't matter tbh. I set up the guns just fine, gang guns did get out of hand though. Anywho, guns are balanced, they're set. You cannot buy one gun and think you're hot stuff, you'll die.

As such, get good so you can not die. You suck. Worry about that, not gun stats people.

I would argue that you can buy a flak or christmas launcher and think you're hot stuff.

While I agree that Flaks and Christmas Cannons are out of hand, you wouldn't be hot stuff, you'd die... still die.

I did set Flak in a way that it was not so lame initially, no clue who changed it. I don't think Christmas cannon existed or was relevant when I set stats, oh well.

Either way, get one and you'll still die to me because I don't suck. Hint: Don't suck and it won't matter.

Well, as you mentioned earlier, no one cares if they suck.

This is my way of making them care. Since they care about stats, and other stupid crap, I am telling that they if they don't suck, they can have all their problems solved.

Obviously nagging at staff or making constant changes isn't working, so stop sucking, it's never failed me; new campaign!

Well that sucks. Fixing people is significantly harder than fixing the game.

I think the two are synonymous, especially in the case of Era. People, essentially, are the game. As such, do what it takes to fix the people, such as centering the game around pk and competition. While this may not work, its better than hopping from one quick fix to the next because those eventually run out, y'know?

I suck at sparring and PKing and everybody knows it, I don't care. :o

Era evolved, a new generation came along and changed it into what it is, Era will become just like any other "killing" related game, people will die to those better, get mad and get off. Era doesn't have the player-count to handle raging new***s.

Probably the best thing you've ever said <3

It's easy for the top-tier players to sit back and say "Era should all be revolved around what I'm good at".

That's just stupid, you have too much experience and skill to completely shift the game in that direction and expect people to like it, everyone will die to the elite over and over, they won't want to seek for/advance in skill, they will quit and find a REAL balanced game.

Half the players that play now only play for the community and the friends they have made, hence the "idlers", they're all friends sitting at "unstick me" using Era as an instant messanger.

What you're asking is basically this in other words/another form; We give you a copy of a game, let you play it for 10 years and get extremely good at it then we release it to a SELECT FEW and watch them die over and over and just expect them to like dying and want to learn not to die.

There will be an obvious disadvantage to 90% of the current players and 100% to every and all new player that join for 5 minutes to see what the game is like, people play games to succeed not to die 100 times and get 1 kill, no one feels accomplishment from that.

You can't expect the player count to get better and better, it won't get better with the minimal advertisement/the amount of people that currently play... It just won't happen.

If you think about it from all angles, Era is about as good as it's going to get right now, I wouldn't put too much money on it lasting more than a couple more years before the PC servers completely get shut offline, just enjoy it and stop complaining about every possible problem. It's still the same old Era that we all fell in-love with, It just doesn't have the same atmosphere as when it did with all of our friends playing at the same time raiding against another set of 70+ players.

its not about that being the best player. its the fact that gangs get better guns that give them an upper hand. it also doesnt help that the guns that compare to gang guns are 500k+ either

every gang gun is a tier 1 which is not fair. it wouldnt be as bad if every gun was in shop not just gang exclusives

idk why you guys took all those guns and snipers out the game anyway. nothing wrong with variety

Godzilla, elite players have always owned bad ones. I mean, a part of becoming elite is to get owned and adapt. I watched scrubs like you gradually become halfway competent enough to not die in some of the retarded ways you once did. Although you each reached a ceiling that was less than impressive, you mewbs were motivated by watching us elite players compete and shun each other for being skill-less. You yearned to be in the conversation. Some of new players today are like this. They often cchallenge me to a spar even if for a small moral victory of not getting flawlessed. They get excited when I am on their team in an event and constantly inquire as to how to get good. They want to do it. It is just your generation that keeps fighting for incentives, perks, and foolish nonsense because you jave grown tired of living in our shadow. You have strived for so long and still get bested by the prior generation, mine. However, just because you scrubs are frustrated does not mean the essence of era needs to change. The next generation still clings to whatever faint remnant remains. Build on that, culture them in it, and you have an era for another 10 years until they too get to your point. Then lather rinse and repeat.

Ilovegirlzz, its about being good, not the guns. You sre just not good, we all know that. Fix that and see if the guns matter.

The objective of this thread was to highlight and correct the gang gun issue, since I had quit and it couldn't be addressed correctly. You pointed this out on many occasions.

The administration took note of the issue, and it resulted in Fiber being appointed GBA.. and then JEM actually realizing it was an issue and coming back to correct it.

Dunno what you guys are whining about now. I've been craving some series though so if anyone wants to do some hours of training hmu.

will this game does not revolve around skill. its about whoever has the best gun we all know that..
now that doesnt mean you give me your life story about how you played this game since the beginning of its time in order to be the best because we cant base the future of guns solely on your experiences.

the way that you go about things is very simple minded (since i can successfully raid with an uzi so can you). if you want to make this game focus only on skill then get rid of money and trading and make this game strictly pk oriented. Get money for kills, buy a weapon, cant trade that weapon, but can still pawn.

I dont care about the skill i care about the money if the stats of guns didnt matter then we would all just use shotgun uzi and ak-47.

another thing wil,
i dont get how you can still believe that your ideas of a perfect era will ever be good given your past experiences of trying to perfect the gun stats. each time ended in the inevitable which is the rejection of your null yet you persist in trying your system.