Originally Posted by cbk1994 (Post 1701325)

I don't see what you're getting at here. I'm not manager of anything, and when I was, I was fired for what I did by the PWA (and rightly so). Tig has even globally banned me in the past himself. This is all years ago and I've made considerable attempts to change since then.

I'm all for restoring Jer as manager, but I don't think this situation is similar at all to what I did (spawning items). The worst accusations aimed at Jer are that he was unprofessional.

Originally Posted by Emera (Post 1701328)

Good management skills have nothing to do with knowing about the server you're managing. Granted that some decent knowledge of the server will be more than helpful when dealing with players.

Originally Posted by Rufus (Post 1701330)

You can paint Jerret like he's a 'sexually charged' deviant, but allow the real crimes to go unpunished because it benefits your own servers? No, that's not right at all.

Originally Posted by Eskimo (Post 1701331)

My point was that I severely doubt they'll even appoint someone qualified. I'd sooner believe they would instate a friend, maybe another Vimes.

Originally Posted by cbk1994 (Post 1701325)

I don't see what you're getting at here. I'm not manager of anything, and when I was, I was fired for what I did by the PWA (and rightly so). Tig has even globally banned me in the past himself. This is all years ago and I've made considerable attempts to change since then.

Originally Posted by cbk1994 (Post 1701332)

I agree. My main issue with this decision (besides it being a slap in the face to Jer, who has put countless hours into Zodiac) is that they will never be able to find somebody who can do a better job of managing the server than he can.

Originally Posted by Rufus (Post 1701330)

Both you and Seeya were banned for selling Era items for money on the 30th of April 2011. The ban was by Tig, yes. However, both you and Seeya were allowed to evade this ban on alternate accounts (Graal778257 and Graal753452) and were allowed to continue playing and WORKING on Graal Kingdoms. In addition to this the GK player known as Vinka, the guy that spammed the entire forum up with pornographic material and was going to be pursued with legal action from unixmad, has been working on the Graal Kingdoms iPhone port.

I think that this situation is very comparable because it shows just how hypocritical this administration is. You can paint Jerret like he's a 'sexually charged' deviant, but allow the real crimes to go unpunished because it benefits your own servers? No, that's not right at all.

Originally Posted by Emera (Post 1701333)

What would you define as qualified though?

Originally Posted by Emera (Post 1701328)

Good management skills have nothing to do with knowing about the server you're managing. Granted that some decent knowledge of the server will be more than helpful when dealing with players.

Originally Posted by Eskimo (Post 1701338)

If they can't find someone with past management experience, then atleast a zodiac community member who cares as much about the server as Jerret does and has some sort of scripting and player relations experience. There are a few current staff members who could probably do a good job. The preferable choice though, for the players of zodiac atleast, is Jerret.

Originally Posted by Imperialistic (Post 1701335)

*snip*

Originally Posted by pandar (Post 1701341)

so unbelievably wrong. Extensive knowledge of the past, present, and planned future of the server you're managing is an extremely vital aspect to being a proper manager. I would not trust someone who has been on the server for 2 years or less in a managerial position.

Originally Posted by Emera (Post 1701340)

So your definition of a good manager is somebody from the server, somebody who can deal with players professionally and somebody who has a decemt knowledge of development. It seems Jerret ticks only two of the three boxes you've layed out here.

Originally Posted by Emera (Post 1701340)

So your definition of a good manager is somebody from the server, somebody who can deal with players professionally and somebody who has a decemt knowledge of development. It seems Jerret ticks only two of the three boxes you've layed out here.

Originally Posted by Pandar (Post 1701341)

So unbelievably wrong. Extensive knowledge of the past, present, and planned future of the server you're managing is an extremely vital aspect to being a proper Manager. I would not trust someone who has been on the server for 2 years or less in a Managerial position.

Originally Posted by Emera (Post 1701349)

I know a fantastic example of a manager that has had no prior knowledge of the server they're managing and is doing an outstanding job of managing the server and has been doing it since January 2012. Novo has been doing an amazing job with limited knowledge of Delteria's past. I agree that once they're in a managerial position, they should make an effort to get to know the server they're working for though.

Originally Posted by Tigairius (Post 1701337)

Rufus, nobody is preventing Jerret from developing on Zodiac. For now, we ask that he only works on the dev server if he insists on working, but we are in no way telling him he's not allowed to develop for Zodiac, just as we did not actively stop Chris and Seeya from working when they were banned because they were behaving under their new accounts (which they paid for). It's not really comparable at all because Jerret was removed for entirely different reasons, and he was not banned from the game.

Furthermore, don't clump Vinka in as part of GK iPhone's staff. Vinka was fired from GK iPhone for his poor behavior on the forums (posting the porn, etc) and globally banned. We handle every situation on a case-by-case basis and we always try to be as fair as we can, obviously we can't make everyone happy, but you're really blowing it into more than it is. If this is going to turn into a thread about this, I'm going to close it.

Originally Posted by MysticX2X (Post 1701351)

I think a lot of people misunderstand the level of professionalism a manager of a classic server should hold in public light. This applies to any situation with a leader, not just on Graal.

Originally Posted by Eskimo (Post 1701354)

I'm not saying it's impossible for something like that to happen, Don't get me wrong. I'm just saying, it would be usefull for a manage to know what they're managing.

Originally Posted by Emera (Post 1701349)

I know a fantastic example of a manager that has had no prior knowledge of the server they're managing and is doing an outstanding job of managing the server and has been doing it since January 2012. Novo has been doing an amazing job with limited knowledge of Delteria's past. I agree that once they're in a managerial position, they should make an effort to get to know the server they're working for though.

Originally Posted by Emera (Post 1701349)

I know a fantastic example of a manager that has had no prior knowledge of the server they're managing and is doing an outstanding job of managing the server and has been doing it since January 2012. Novo has been doing an amazing job with limited knowledge of Delteria's past. I agree that once they're in a managerial position, they should make an effort to get to know the server they're working for though.

Originally Posted by Pandar (Post 1701361)

The Playerworld Administration deal with situations on a case-by-case basis. That is why they have removed Jerret from his position as Manager of Zodiac for his posts on the official Graal forums, while the Zodiac community uses its own forums. Makes sense.

Originally Posted by Rufus (Post 1701355)

You sound like you're just making up rules now. Since when were people allowed to evade and work on servers when they're globally banned? According to the code of conduct, 'Users whose accounts have been terminated by any Graal Online administrator or LINUX Cyberjoueurs himself may not access the Graal Online system in any manner or for any reason without the express written permission of Cyberjoueur'. Moreover, if Jerret has a history of 'asking people sexually charged, highly inappropriate questions in public' and there has been 'a degree of harassment from him' then why would he be allowed to work on Zodiac at all? Do you realize how stupid that sounds?

I don't agree with the hypocritical nature that you seem to work in favor of yourself and the projects that you work on. You might think it is acceptable to make Jerret out to be some big bad that the PWA had to remove, but based on how you've allowed people (namely those within your circle of friends) to get away with much worse, I do not know how you expect anyone to take this seriously. I can only assume that you'll throw in that Jerret was a manager and thus is expected to have acted in a more professional way than what your buddies were doing. If he was actually doing his job though, which he clearly was, wouldn't it have better served THIS case to have left him banned from the forums?

Originally Posted by Imperialistic (Post 1701358)

Rufus is on point, Tig you're just making up new rules as you go. (and enforcing them on non-friends)

Originally Posted by Eskimo (Post 1701363)

If this thread hadn't been posted on a forum that 90% of zodiac doesn't use, there would be a LOT more reaction from zodiac players

Originally Posted by Tigairius (Post 1701305)

It was not an easy decision to remove Jerret. There's no denying that he is, in some limited sense, an asset to the community. However, it was a decision that we reached (unanimously, I might add) after discussing it for months.

The decision about his removal was not over one issue (like this triple_combo stuff). It was over a series of issues over an extended period of time. Fowlplay4's public behavior has been increasingly poor over the years, especially in the last year. Need I also remind you that he has been permanently banned from the official GraalOnline forums for repeated poor behavior (this was before his removal)? We have history of him asking people sexually charged, highly inappropriate questions in public, we've seen a degree of harassment from him, and on top of this, we asked him to stop multiple times.

In fact, I remember back on March 4th (yes, that's nearly half a year ago), warning Jerret that if he cannot improve his behavior, especially on the official forums, we do not want him staying in his position. In fact, I said these words to him exactly and He agreed to stop, and then continued misbehaving. Posting things on the forums like "I'm pretty hard right now" and "hey bayne vvat does thor's loads taste like?"

We warned him again by banning him from the forums for 31 days. He returned to the forums starting threads like "MD is garbage" (taking shots at MysticalDragon on Delteria) saying things like and posting things in other un-related topics like "hey galdor wat do my nutz taste like *****" (these are direct quotes).

And many of you have brought up triple_combo (who is in no way at fault here), where Gabriel asked Zodiac for proper proof for having banned him/her. Gabriel was only doing his job -- something he would've done for any of you -- by making sure Zodiac had full indisputable evidence to be banning someone for life. They did not have proper proof, so Gabriel removed the ban and in order to spite Gabriel, fowlplay4's administration placed a trade restriction on triple_combo, essentially rendering the game unplayable. This is unacceptable to do to paying customers for essentially no reason. Gabriel approached me about the situation and then proceeded to ask fowlplay4 to remove the trade restriction if he/she was not suspected of actively breaking any rules. Fowlplay4 removed the trade restriction, but decided to reset triple_combo as a retaliatory response to Gabriel's persistence. Quite frankly, I don't care if you're the king of the world, we do not accept this kind of behavior from managers. We saw bias coming from fowlplay4's administration not only in this sense but in others as well.

Let me reassure anyone who is in doubt that this was NOT an impulsive decision. It was well thought-out, planned, and long talked about among the PWA. Triple_combo is only the tip of the iceberg as to why Fowlplay4 was removed, and he/she is certainly not the primary reasoning. Jerret had plenty of warning, plenty of chances to improve, and plenty of opportunity. I know none of you ever claimed to know the whole story, but please keep in mind that there is always more to the story than what you can see. Obviously I do not want to discuss Fowlplay4's entire rap sheet because I find it disrespectful to do so, but he is in no way some angel that you all have painted him to be.

Originally Posted by Tigairius (Post 1701364)

Is that so? Because I don't recall ever referring to anything I said as a "rule" by which we abide. No, in fact, I explicitly said that we handle each situation on a case-by-case basis. If someone is banned, and wants to prove himself/herself, we welcome people to purchase new accounts and play on them until they misbehave again (unless we consider their presence a threat to the community in some way). We're allowing Jerret to stay as a developer on the -dev server only- where he will not be interacting with players, so I'm not sure how you see it's "stupid" of us to allow him to work on Zodiac privately. His presence on the dev server would only help Zodiac.

I work in favor of Graal and Graal's community, and every decision the PWA makes is in, what we consider to be, Graal's best interest. You may not agree, clearly you do not here, but you said it best yourself, Jerret was not behaving properly as a manager (on a very popular server), a position we hold to higher expectations, and we gave him ample warning before making this difficult decision.

Of course we weighed his value in the community as a scripter against his negative personality traits, but again, we unanimously agreed that he is not worth his trouble. Anyways, I feel that I've really exasperated this discussion more than I normally would, and there's really nothing more that can really be said by anyone. I think everyone has pretty much voiced their complaints and we've explained our stance.

Originally Posted by Tigairius (Post 1701364)

I work in favor of Graal and Graal's community, and every decision the PWA makes is in, what we consider to be, Graal's best interest.

Originally Posted by Tigairius (Post 1701364)

We're allowing Jerret to stay as a developer on the -dev server only- where he will not be interacting with players, so I'm not sure how you see it's "stupid" of us to allow him to work on Zodiac privately. His presence on the dev server would only help Zodiac.