This was not Stefan's idea, this was proposed solely by the PWA and at this point is not fully supported by him. Its in response to many of the complaints we see on the forums about how there is a lack of participation by the global community in improving the overall quality of Graal itself. In the beginning there will be little involvement by them as we intend to start small, prove its worth then expand as needed.

I think you may be misinterpreting its purpose. This team is not to develop for server renters. Its to supply things such as scripts or gani's that can be used globally. But at the same time if a private server is having an issue that none of their staff can resolve they have a team to go to in order to ask for some additional help.

Did we not all begin developing for Graal because it was interesting and enjoyable for us? I won't go off on a tangent here as this is going to be a large enough wall of text but have you all forgotten why you came here in the first place and stayed? You said it yourself, you do not need global rc to help servers but if you are a subdivision of the PWA the server renters can be more secure in the knowledge that their server plans will remain within their own server.

Tig could request this as well.

It will be replacing GST as well and putting in the addition of the other teams that keep privately asking Stefan to be reformed. it would just be a single entity instead of several.

I was intentionally vague about what the duties would be. Stefan just requested that they be involved in keeping the wiki up to date as well. I don't see how it would be unfair to new developers to have the addition of the team. They would still be free to develop at their own pace in their own way but would have the benefit of a place to go to if they really got stuck.

No, they are still free to develop wherever they wish on their own time.

Yes, that is what I meant

I don't want people that are in it for power, I want people that are doing it because they enjoy it.

No

Something like that is always possible in the future but at this point we still have to prove that the people will actually stay involved and not do what normally happens. Get the job then do minimal work just to keep the title.

This would be its purpose. I'm glad I didn't confuse someone.

Would definitely be helpful. As most of you know, I am not a developer but I've probably fixed more gmaps in the past 3 years than I care to remember. If a server owner can't bother to take the time to watch a video then I seriously doubt his desire to make a successful server.

So do something about it. Join the team and prove its a valuable addition. Just as a picture is worth a thousand words. Seeing a concept working on an active server is worth more than trying to explain to someone that it would work.

The title is correct. In addition to the things listed, if they felt the desire to enter into such a project such as GraalOlympics or a single new server. They could do that as well. I just would like this to get off the ground without grand illusions of miracle changes within its first weeks.

We are not taking talented people and asking them to do non development tasks. We are asking them to document what they do. This in itself makes their work easier to understand by people with lesser knowledge.

The current global team is too small to do all of this ourselves. Two of us are not qualified as far as I'm concerned, myself included. I'm pretty sure if I edit the wiki, Graal will explode into a million insane gremlins that will eat the intraweb from the inside out. Skyld and Tig are already trying to update the wiki whenever they have spare time and TSA is semi qualified.



As I said before, the list is not complete. It was only a suggested plan to implement. We came to the forum group to get additional ideas of what could or should be done. Unfortunately not everyone comes to the forums but usually the most talented group does, which is why we started here. There have been suggestions for a long time now of developing a new high quality server but thats as far as it goes. The majority of you either refuse to work together on the same server or don't actively wish to be involved in it yourself.

No it couldn't, this would be in special guilds that is run by a global administrator that will be chosen when the team is properly formed.

I think the majority of people are simply already committed to something. Though, just as well, a surprising amount of people that are talented developers post, but do not even really play graal anymore.


And the ever so quiet Xor? :p

"First of all i watn to..."

from the guild description. I seriously doubt this guy can participate in any kind of development project.

That needs to be italicized and emboldened.
I am indeed interested in joining the team, and I would do it because I enjoy developing.

However, over the years I have requested simple minor features for the scripting engine and other things that have either gone unanswered or have only been implemented serverside. I do not enjoy developing on outdated platforms, and I consider Graal outdated because of the amount of time the client has gone without an update. If you, Stefan, or anyone else expects me to put more time and effort into developing, then I want to be paid with Graal updates.

These features are things that I'm sure Stefan could implement in anywhere from a few minutes to a few hours. If that is not the case, then he should explain why it would take so long and when he might be able to do it if he intends to.

Edit:

On another note, if this team concept takes off methinks a documentation of development and management standards should be created. However, methinks this would mostly be for standardizing scripting practices.

[QUOTE=Clockwork;1516479
And the ever so quiet Xor? :p[/QUOTE]
Yes, it would be Xor. His skills are more along the line of mine in the non development side.

The type of person I would prefer to see join.

I can't really answer for what has happened in the past as I wasn't here nor do I know what his reasons were for not implementing something. My purpose is to attempt to improve Graal now and for the future since iPhone apps aren't going to be sufficient to support everything I'm sure.

I agree and I'm sure there are people out there that actually enjoy doing that sort of thing and excel in it. Thats something that the team itself could form amongst themselves as this team is basically a blanket team covering all aspects.

By the comments left, I'm still a little at a loss as to whether there would be enough support to develop this team or not but I for one would like to at least give it a try. What is there to actually lose after all?

I'll take the job guys

Global RC would be a nice bonus though :D
People like me run on inspiration. My own ideas provide the majority of this, but Stefan still has to provide the rest by creating a platform that will allow me to make my ideas a reality.

At the moment I would like to join this Global Development Team in an advisory role if possible, someone to come to with development questions, evaluation requests, and things of that nature. I do not want to commit to making any new content considering my lack of inspiration.

Edit: Can we get an official Graal IRC channel or something?

I realize that a global rc would be a nice bonus and thats always a possible future addition on a 'need' basis. Mainly I imagine it would be the scripters since modifying scripts to work on individual servers is easier to do than to explain. I just do not want people joining for the sole purpose of global rc, doing minimal work then sitting around just to look cool.

I don't see why you couldn't get an IRC channel if everyone felt it would be helpful. They are already available and I'm sure Skyld could get something like that put in place. Skyld's probably gonna beat me for volunteering him but he'll live.

I think this is a very good idea it would help improve the overall quality of us servers and of graal thus. I would like to commit myself to join such a team if possible. ^^

I also would not mind joining the team as GFX, as I can GFX different kinds of things from tiles to photoshop images to just plain ol' "re-editing"!

But yes, we have nothing to lose, and that is IF we fail, which I highly doubt!

Tig is gone this week getting set up at college and Skyld will be gone till Friday. I'll get in contact with the globals within a week or so and see what we can get set up as far as an application process goes.

Do any of you have any suggestions as to what should be required to join the team itself? Please be as specific as possible.

I'm sure many of the more reputable scripters don't need an official global RC. ;)
I don't care who provides the IRC channel as long as it is officially endorsed by Graal management and global staff so that people actually use it.

Edit:
If an applicant is an unknown quantity, then they should require some endorsement from someone who has a significant development position or standing in the global community.

Very true, which is why I don't see global rc as a huge issue.

Just a few off the top of my head.

1. I would suggest that the first requirement would be that the applicants would need an active gold subscription or they wouldn't be able to login/use under construction playerworlds or be able to update the Graal Bible.

2. Another requirement would be to show proof that they are skilled in the development areas they stated as some applicants may submit work they didn't produce.

3. Applicants must have very little or no history of trouble making either on Graal or on the forums.

4. It would help for the applications to have decent communication and management skills in order to deal with server Managers and staff they are providing assistance to.

Absolutely not.
IMHO, don't allow people into the GDT if they can't use proper English.

It doesn't change the fact that you need a gold subscription to do certain tasks the position requires.

I'd also be willing to help out other servers with whatever problems they have. Unfortunately I don't really want to write an application to apply for this position.

I suppose your desire to help out other servers isn't that strong then.
The details of the team's operation have not been established. If the team is decently sized it would be unnecessary for all members to be able to go on under construction servers or be able to edit the wiki.

Maybe not but Bell did state the team will help under construction playerworlds and updating the documentation on the graal bible. Having an active gold subscription may not be required for all members of the team in special cases but in general most applicants should have an active gold subscription.

if the team is going to be that helpful to graal, as suggested, then i don't see why it would be a problem to give active and contributing members gold. while some developers might be adamant about helping graal out and purchasing gold to just join the team, i'd guess that the majority are not

As far as I know the current global staff team has to pay for gold subscriptions so I don't see why members of the global development team would get it.

i didn't know that - what i do know is that gold has been given out to globals and developers in the past and could be done again

How would this work in servers that do not allow global guilds? :P

Administration and special guilds work on every server even with global guilds disabled. As an example I could use both GK Staff and Global News Team global guilds on Era or Zodiac even with the option disabled.

Ah...I was trying to think of a guild that might work but I couldn't... Thanks for reminding me of those.

I predict a lot of people applying who think they can develop but actually can't. If this is the case, and they're actually taken on board, then they're not going to recognize that they're not all that, nothing is going to change in quality, and there will be no incentive to change or get better. High standards are kind of necessary in something like this, especially if people are learning from their example, but I'm not saying it should be elitist requirements.

Forums are a way different deal to making trouble on Graal; nearly everyone on the forum has received infractions, but that's not to say they have received jails or bans or are an actual trouble maker. Something like this would exclude people like Dusty and Crono if they were ever interested, and that is two of the few remaining talented developers we have, two of the remaining talented developers that contribute already.

1. Portfolio

2. Special organization skills as this is a very important aspect in development, many many graphics designers have little to no plan on what steps they are going, they just work towards a goal that is impossible to achieve with no correct direction.

And as far as Gold goes, I think that is not a big problem once the team is established, it would be more difficult if it was 20-30 developers in the team though.


Lol Rufus :D I remember the times where the global guilds had an application time and many people applied (R.I.P. GGT -_-...)

And people said that it would be slave labour...look...
What have we done the past 8 years? The same...

Let me get this straight.
You're going to entice developers to finally band together, work together, and contribute more, something that has proved an impossibility on a large scale for quite some time now, by throwing a non global RC global team at things and giving them the all fulfilling feeling of working together to do something meaningful?

Give me a break. There would only be one reason a person would join the damn team, and that is for a position of power, that doesn't really have all that much power, just some new team flair.

You're looking to entice talented devs, yet most talented devs wouldn't contribute to this at all, just nab a not so enticing global position and fade away(like the GST, which had more rights and authority that what is proposed here).

The fact is, developers that are talented enough, will only really focus on projects and tasks that interest or benefit them, because there is simply no drive to work on something you don't want to work on in this game. There is no incentive, monetary or otherwise to join this team, beyond being on an omg global team(with no power or authority, might I add).

The only way you'd form a team like this, is if there was a benefit to it.
Beyond the promise of global power, etc etc, there's little to no reason to do this unless you get a chubby from working as a team, and judging from the state of development as a whole on this game now, there isn't very many people that do.

Bell already said that players arnt forced to work on something that is not interesting...I guess there will be conferences and so on for decisions what project to help and so on...

you can't force a decent developer to work on anything in the first place.

Your point is already invalidated by the simple fact that I have no need for something like a global RC and yet I would still join this team because I enjoy developing as I said before.

Your negativity is not helping in the least.
People like my develop because we enjoy it and are inspired by an idea of what we want to do. The top developers are currently scattered around Graal, and not all of them actively develop anymore like myself. An organized team would allow the members to more easily share their ideas and provide inspiration for themselves and other servers.

Again, I believe Stefan would need to contribute in his own way if this idea is to go anywhere.
Elk obviously did not mean that as literally as you're taking it.

Anyone can say that to shoe them in to head this thing, you even hinted that "global RC would be a nice perk". Even if your intention is pure, you're one person.
The trend in this thread amongst talented devs is that this would be an epic failure.

They're scattered because the system in place now, for how development works, allows them to scatter themselves to work on projects that interest them, either by heading up their own server, or working for an existing one where they have significant say in what goes on(most scripters on servers have significantly bolstered RC and folder rights beyond what they need to do their job, and sometimes unneeded authority aswell).

Talented developers aren't scattered by chance, longing for finding each other and working as one cohesive group, its because they've become so rare and desired, that a lot of them have a huge ego, and egos don't work well in a group setting. So they scattered more and more throughout the years What will magically make them finally collaborate in a group to do something meaningful, without some drastic changes being made?

Well I don't know why those other talented devs work, but I know why I do so I can only speak for myself.
This is extremely true.
As I said, Stefan needs to do his part if anything is going to change.

And, note that Bell said the team members would still be able to work on their own projects where they wish. It would not require the team members to work in a group if they don't want to, but it would make it easier I believe.

What prevents them from working together, without a underpowered staff division, that is largely been getting negative feedback? You need to identify and knead out those issues before you can stick all the devs together and expect anything meaningful to come out of it.

See the GST, it had 3-4 extremely talented devs on it for months, and not a damn thing came out of it, what has changed now for the better? Nothing, things have gone downhill, not up.

External influences can be a good motivating factor. The current system is not helping bring developers together onto the same page.
I'm tired of repeating myself. I already said that for myself it was going take a contribution (or fifty) from Stefan to change anything, at least in my case. I'm well aware of the current state of Graal.

Ideally Stefan would be in contact with this team often and would have a role in identifying new features and changes to Graal.

Edit: A good number of the more talented developers have the power of reputation, which is why I don't think global RC is necessary. The team would not be underpowered if the right people are part of it.

Honestly, I don't even think Stefan himself has the control over things to work out the issues, sure he could provide developers more tools/documentation/assistance. However, the the decisions about the state of how the game is ran(server rentals, gold pricing, trial restrictions considering the state of the game as it is), is controlled by Unixmad, how is a lot harder to convince, get in contact with, etc.

Those decisions that unixmad handles are not important to me. What I want are up-to-date development tools and features that would allow me to create what I want. These things can only be provided by Stefan.

What you want, isn't exactly very significant to the game as a whole.
You can add all the requested functions, documentation, and modifications or enhancements to GS2, that you want, and it still won't significantly change a damn thing. Issues are way way beyond the griping of the unfulfilled desires of the developers that exist now.

First, I am not talking about enhancements specific to GS2.

Second, the grand majority of content on Graal was created by players using the available tools to do what they enjoy, create their own game. Is it not logical to include that if these tools are improved and more features are added to Graal that can be taken advantage of by aspiring scripters, level designers, and graphic artists, that they would be more inspired to create content? This would be assisted by this Global Development Team creating demos using various Graal features.