Bring back Classic levels and hit detection?

[contego]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

My understanding was that if Classic wasn't ready for the NPCserver to be put in place Stefan would have eventually had to shut it down.
If there was any way it could remain the same permanently, it would have.

It can stay the same, development went in the wrong direction.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by contego

It can stay the same, development went in the wrong direction.

Can you perhaps back up your claims with reasons as to why it would be so simple to put everything back as it was?
It's not like the issue is down to upload speed, it's to do with compatability.

[contego]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

Can you perhaps back up your claims with reasons as to why it would be so simple to put everything back as it was?
It's not like the issue is down to upload speed, it's to do with compatability.

By simply upload a later version where it had the original HD and levels. Stefan has the back ups.

Like I said, there might be some work to do with this, but the fact stands, Classic staff is there to do work on Classic. Hense the staff position.

Do you have an issue doing work for Classic?

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by contego

By simply upload a later version where it had the original HD and levels. Stefan has the back ups.

Like I said, there might be some work to do with this, but the fact stands, Classic staff is there to do work on Classic. Hense the staff position.

Do you have an issue doing work for Classic?

We both want the same thing,
but if you think it's a matter of simply reuploading it all you are mistaken,
and yes, it would require such an amount of work that the workload is an issue in itself, what would be wrong with bringing back the Default Systems, restoring only a small patch of the old Overworld and expanding outwards gradually and strategically according to an actual adventure server plan that incorporates the best parts of old Classic?

[Tyhm]

I can help with the damn Pyramid Quest, I KNOW I got that backed up here somewhere...and since you guys redid Pushing/Pulling, easy peasy...

The problem with "just have Stefan restore an old backup" is that's how we keep running into problems with things like the Peen Lake version of Graal; new guard wipes the old server, spends two years getting up to the same level of completion that the old guard had, then the next guard starts over again.....

[DarkCloud_PK]

are we really beating this dead horse over and over again.

you really have no sight of what made classic glorious.
sure, if you could pull the IMPOSSIBLE, which is find a large team of people willing to convert all 1K+ levels of GTA as it existed pre npcserver, which would allow for default HD to work properly(as GTA was built for it), it would take 1-2 YEARS to pull off such a large project.

Realistically, it would take even longer because such a team would be impossible to create. Sure, you would have a ton of people saying "oooh i'll help convert back old classic", then they'd do a few levels and realize what boring, repetitve, and thankless work converting a server from pre npcserver really is. A side effect is, that you would be reverting the server back to gs1 scriptingwise(converting gs1 scripts to meet the serverside/clientside guidelines is still gs1), which is exceptionally inferior to code with.

So you spend these nonexistant dev resources, the limited amount of time, to bring back what exactly?
All the people that vote for 'old gta' to come back, refer to a number of different versions that have existed over the years. Some people that mean bring back old classic mean bring back 1.2x or 1.3x, some mean bring back 1.4x, some mean bring back 2.x or 3.x and on and on and on. Which means when you bring back whatever old classic gets brought back, all the other people who wanted the older or newer version get pissed, and you're left with even more complaining than you started with.

Go ahead, try to agree what set of levels and overworld brought life to this server. The answer is none of them, because all of you are too damn blind to realize what made classic what it was. It wasn't some damn set of levels, it was a damn community. You logged on for the people, for your friends, not some crappy levels that looked like they got put together with a staple gun.

It may be hard to cope with, but classic as it was is gone, and will never exist again, because the community that oldbies like us that stuck it out and didnt leave completely, well, we're the only ones left. When we started playing this game, we were in our teens, we were growing up, playing online kid games.

This is now, we're in our 20s(im 23 going on 24 for crying out loud), maybe even some of us in our 30s, and this game just doesnt appeal to the majority of the oldbies anymore. Phantasm, hoss, Lyndzey, i could keep going on, but all those oldbies that have long since disappeared have disappeared because they've become adults, they've built there lives, started their careers, started their families maybe, but Graal will probably no longer be a part of their lives, and bringing back some levels or even a HD isn't going to bring them back. They had their good times, they had their friends and their experiences, but times have changed, people have aged, it isn't the same as it was back then. If you need another Graal 2000(for oldbies that remember that server and how that crashed and burned, I know Tyhm does) server to show you old levels dont generate a community and fun, so be it.

The fact is that community builds a server, and thats what UN is built on for example, their community, should their server go down for a long enough period of time that their community fractures to other servers, if it was brought back, it probably wouldnt survive. This is an MMORPG, the staple of which is that you have people and a community to interact with, and thats what we should be working on building now, and bringing back close to 6 year old levels(or 9 for the people gunning for 2000 pack) isn't going to bring in anything. You might get a few people to come back for nostalgia, but they wont last long, its been done before on Graal 2000, it was done when Bomy Moon was brought back under Lance.

Levels alone do not make a server, nostalgia alone does not make a server, community and quality developed methods to play and interact with that community is what makes servers.

I know you miss the good days, I know I miss them too, but trust me, levels and a HD aren't going to bring the old days back, not even remotely. We have to take it within ourselves to make new memories instead of lamenting about the past being gone.

Edit: As for uploading GTA right before it went NPC server, as I recall, that server had a playercount of nearly 30. Is that really the 'ticket to success' thats going to make everything better.

Classic was dying long before the npc server ever came into play, besides p2p obviously, try to figure out why.

Edit 2: This was mainly to comment on the old levels, the HD situation is a new can of worms thats hard to address.

[contego]

Originally Posted by DarkCloud_PK

are we really beating this dead horse over and over again.

you really have no sight of what made classic glorious.
sure, if you could pull the IMPOSSIBLE, which is find a large team of people willing to convert all 1K+ levels of GTA as it existed pre npcserver, which would allow for default HD to work properly(as GTA was built for it), it would take 1-2 YEARS to pull off such a large project.

Realistically, it would take even longer because such a team would be impossible to create. Sure, you would have a ton of people saying "oooh i'll help convert back old classic", then they'd do a few levels and realize what boring, repetitve, and thankless work converting a server from pre npcserver really is. A side effect is, that you would be reverting the server back to gs1 scriptingwise(converting gs1 scripts to meet the serverside/clientside guidelines is still gs1), which is exceptionally inferior to code with.

So you spend these nonexistant dev resources, the limited amount of time, to bring back what exactly?
All the people that vote for 'old gta' to come back, refer to a number of different versions that have existed over the years. Some people that mean bring back old classic mean bring back 1.2x or 1.3x, some mean bring back 1.4x, some mean bring back 2.x or 3.x and on and on and on. Which means when you bring back whatever old classic gets brought back, all the other people who wanted the older or newer version get pissed, and you're left with even more complaining than you started with.

Go ahead, try to agree what set of levels and overworld brought life to this server. The answer is none of them, because all of you are too damn blind to realize what made classic what it was. It wasn't some damn set of levels, it was a damn community. You logged on for the people, for your friends, not some crappy levels that looked like they got put together with a staple gun.

It may be hard to cope with, but classic as it was is gone, and will never exist again, because the community that oldbies like us that stuck it out and didnt leave completely, well, we're the only ones left. When we started playing this game, we were in our teens, we were growing up, playing online kid games.

This is now, we're in our 20s(im 23 going on 24 for crying out loud), maybe even some of us in our 30s, and this game just doesnt appeal to the majority of the oldbies anymore. Phantasm, hoss, Lyndzey, i could keep going on, but all those oldbies that have long since disappeared have disappeared because they've become adults, they've built there lives, started their careers, started their families maybe, but Graal will probably no longer be a part of their lives, and bringing back some levels or even a HD isn't going to bring them back. They had their good times, they had their friends and their experiences, but times have changed, people have aged, it isn't the same as it was back then. If you need another Graal 2000(for oldbies that remember that server and how that crashed and burned, I know Tyhm does) server to show you old levels dont generate a community and fun, so be it.

The fact is that community builds a server, and thats what UN is built on for example, their community, should their server go down for a long enough period of time that their community fractures to other servers, if it was brought back, it probably wouldnt survive. This is an MMORPG, the staple of which is that you have people and a community to interact with, and thats what we should be working on building now, and bringing back close to 6 year old levels(or 9 for the people gunning for 2000 pack) isn't going to bring in anything. You might get a few people to come back for nostalgia, but they wont last long, its been done before on Graal 2000, it was done when Bomy Moon was brought back under Lance.

Levels alone do not make a server, nostalgia alone does not make a server, community and quality developed methods to play and interact with that community is what makes servers.

I know you miss the good days, I know I miss them too, but trust me, levels and a HD aren't going to bring the old days back, not even remotely. We have to take it within ourselves to make new memories instead of lamenting about the past being gone.

Edit: As for uploading GTA right before it went NPC server, as I recall, that server had a playercount of nearly 30. Is that really the 'ticket to success' thats going to make everything better.

Classic was dying long before the npc server ever came into play, besides p2p obviously, try to figure out why.

Edit 2: This was mainly to comment on the old levels, the HD situation is a new can of worms thats hard to address.

Your post contradicts the poll ratings, enough said in response to your trashing any attempt to work.

To be honest, your opinion is null because you are not a player, you are staff. Look to what the players are asking.

I have been local, global, and created a server. I actually speak from experience. I have that notch on my belt.

In more simple terms DC, you are one of the staff that are not producing for Classic. Enough excuses, either step up for Classic or step down, period.
.

[Luda]

little more positivity little less negativity dark cloud

[DarkCloud_PK]

Originally Posted by contego

Your post contradicts the poll ratings, enough said in response to your trashing any attempt to work.

To be honest, your opinion is null because you are not a player, you are staff. Look to what the players are asking.

I have been local, global, and created a server. I actually speak from experience. I have that notch on my belt.

In more simple terms DC, you are one of the staff that are not producing for Classic. Enough excuses, either step up for Classic or step down, period.
.

If that poll were public where you could see the names, it would be half people who dont play here and will never play here, and the other half of people looking for change in any direction. I know that the people want old GTA, the old everything, I wouldnt mind having the old HD if it were easily put back in(its not that simple to just throw it in there).

I'm just realistic contego.
I miss old classic just as much as you, but where are we going to get the man power to convert such a large scale project? What version of the old classic is the 'right' one? How long will it take before people start eventually tearing apart the old levels to rebuild them into what they think looks better, which always happens?

I'm not trying to put you down for wanting all the old stuff back, if it were logically possible to go back in time and do that, I would, but it simply just isn't feasible. Look at what happened the last time this happened. People didn't like what classic during the second half of Tyhm's reign was turning into, everyone hated heras, the pyramid quest, the movements of staple areas. They whined and complained, so they got what they wanted that time.
They got Graal 2000, if everyone remember that, and it completely blew up on the launchpad. Similarly it happened when people cried for 2k1 to come back, so it came back(unfourtunately with the new bodies), it expanded and then failed hard in the course of 2 weeks.

[gravator]

A major concern i have with all the work that was "supposed to have been done" was only personal levels for people from rommel and also ventrue guilds, just today i have wandered a large collection of maps made mostly for people in the rommel guild, and i'm STILL walking around in the even larger collection of maps someone or a number of people from the guild ventrue have made and uploaded to the server, i would understand if these locations were created with the general community of the server in mind, but (i may be mistaken here) they seem only to be levels created for the small groups that are within their respective guild, that is a gross misuse of time and effort and it doesn't make me too happy to know.


If you want to view these levels yourself, just find rommel headquarters along the path going south from the castle and for the ventrue levels, the entrance is set in the cliff just under angel clan, but be warned, you WILL spend 30 minutes or more checking everywhere.

[Minoc]

One thing I'd like to note..
Converting all of the content could indeed take a long amount of time.
However, it doesn't have to be released in one batch.
The old levels could be released in packets, as in - upload the main areas, then release a new converted town/area every few months.

[maximus_asinus]

Originally Posted by Minoc

One thing I'd like to note..
Converting all of the content could indeed take a long amount of time.
However, it doesn't have to be released in one batch.
The old levels could be released in packets, as in - upload the main areas, then release a new converted town/area every few months.

Yeah, they could easily release a small overworld similar to the one they released 5 years ago then strive to release 10 levels a week or something as addons. They could even post a packs of levels on these forums for people to convert(simple overworld levels most likely).

[DarkCloud_PK]

Originally Posted by gravator

A major concern i have with all the work that was "supposed to have been done" was only personal levels for people from rommel and also ventrue guilds, just today i have wandered a large collection of maps made mostly for people in the rommel guild, and i'm STILL walking around in the even larger collection of maps someone or a number of people from the guild ventrue have made and uploaded to the server, i would understand if these locations were created with the general community of the server in mind, but (i may be mistaken here) they seem only to be levels created for the small groups that are within their respective guild, that is a gross misuse of time and effort and it doesn't make me too happy to know.


If you want to view these levels yourself, just find rommel headquarters along the path going south from the castle and for the ventrue levels, the entrance is set in the cliff just under angel clan, but be warned, you WILL spend 30 minutes or more checking everywhere.

Chances are that the effort they spent was reserved for making their guild content, and they wouldnt have used said effort to do something non-guild.
It really isnt wasted effort if its only going to be used if its for their guild.

[BlackSolider]

Ok one thought on the poll.

Do NOT assume because of the numbers that each of those 37 people who voted are oldies willing to come back to a "new" classic. I assume that many oldbies voted for the return, but many current classicians also voted for it as well. Not because they played the old classic levels, but simply because they aren't satisfied with current classic and are thus assuming old classic levels will automatically be better.

Stop assuming that those 37 people want "old classic" back. I'm willing to bet that a good amount of current classicians never saw old classic, but simply want new content, no matter what it is.

[maximus_asinus]

Assume that all 37 people who voted for old content will login to Classic if the old content was restored. As of right now that is a 370% increase in Classic population.

We're at a point where we're going to have to bend to one group's whim or we're going to lose it all. We're not making any progress continuing down the path we're on now so what does that tell us?