Discussion of new playerworld rules

[Hiro]

Any third-party website that is advertised on the server (through NPC-Server PMs or otherwise) must properly enforce behavior as would be expected in-game or on the official GraalOnline forums.

Like you have (or should have) any say on that at all. What are you going to do, shut down the server or fire all of the staff because they have a forum that differs from this one? Force them to make their forum "unofficial" and stop advertising it?

I'm oh so sure the Delteria forums (for example) will bend to your will.

I'm of the opinion that that is a useless amendment. Trying to powerhouse your way to enforce the (frankly) ludicrous rules of this forum onto other ones makes having a 3rd party forum useless. Why not just force all of them to post on these forums instead?

I can't have been the only one who read that and cringed a little.

[cbk1994]

While we're at it, let's fix this:

Passwords stored on third-party Graal-related websites or databases should be properly encrypted and obfuscated enough so that the hash cannot be decrypted.

Right idea, wrong word. Encryption and hashing are totally different ideas. Passwords should not be encrypted at all.

How about...

Passwords stored on third-party Graal-related websites or databases should be hashed using cryptographically strong hash functions.

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by Hiro

Like you have (or should have) any say on that at all. What are you going to do, shut down the server or fire all of the staff because they have a forum that differs from this one? Force them to make their forum "unofficial" and stop advertising it?

We will ask a server to enforce proper behavior. People or servers who are uncooperative will face consequences which could eventually result in being made private or removed entirely if they continue to advertise websites that do not fall in line with the GraalOnline rules.

Originally Posted by cbk1994

While we're at it, let's fix this:



Right idea, wrong word. Encryption and hashing are totally different ideas. Passwords should not be encrypted at all.

How about...

Fixed. It was originally intended to be very vague.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

We will ask a server to enforce proper behavior. People or servers who are uncooperative will face consequences which could eventually result in being made private or removed entirely if they continue to advertise websites that do not fall in line with the GraalOnline rules.

So wait, you mean GraalOnline rules of conduct or these forum rules? They are different.

For example, does an advertised forum have to hide it's off-topic section and require that each member join a group approved by a moderator like the lounge is hidden here?

[Rufus]

Third-party websites and forums are not encouraged (although permissible).

Might want to reword this.

Originally Posted by unixmad

I have heard about some rumours that graalonline administration was against external forums, this is completely false and we are writing this message to clarify our position on it:

We are very happy when graal players are organizing themselves to create communities. Most of the actual communities are connected to playerworld or development communities. These communities are really helping us by providing feedback, ideas and are organizing content or gameplay. We will continue helping all this communities with software, hardware, time but also links from the graalonline main client.

Recently some of you have been unhappy about the official graalonline forum moderation and forum rules, I can understand your point, it's always hard to follow rules and we all like to be able to write what we want when we want but you need also to understand our point of view:

• We are the official forum and we can not allow slang langage, personal attacks, too much spam and anti social activities.
• We are a registered company and we need to control the content available on our computer. That's the law and we need to respect it.
• The official forums are focused on Graalonline, our goal is not to provide a general forum to discuss about television or cinema but Graal. Even if it's not our goal to provide such discussion, we have allowed a non graal related forum and a private forum with relaxed rules.

Some of you don’t like to respect these rules and want to discuss more general topics. Creating such forum not connected to the graal administration is a good idea if the goal is really fair.

This is becoming a problem when such an external forum is managed by a group of people that want revenge against the Graalonline administration team because they have been banned from GraalOnline for not respecting the rules. A few of these forums have been created these last years and have been all focusing on attacking the game management and the game itself by spreading false rumours on the Internet about Graal or the Graal management or by organizing illegal activities like copying our software, logos, forums or stealing graal account passwords.

At the end it makes a small group of people annoying the big majority of players by making the graalonline small administration team spend time on fighting false rumours and illegal activities made by a group of anonymous people.

Now ask yourselves:
• If you can be part of such community and also part of the graalonline community
• If the graalonline team can respect your suggestion when in the same time you are threading the graalonline administration.

If you are member of such forums focusing on making graal change by fighting the graal administration and/or want accounts unbanned by forcing us to lose our time and our energy fighting your activities, then don’t expect anything else from us than being ignored. Don’t expect to be or stay staff or an active member of the official graal community if you play an active role on such community, we will make sure to protect the majority of the players by asking these players to go find another place.

If some players want to create an external forum to make a forum for the graal community to discuss all topics with less moderation, we will be more than willing to participate by replying to your questions or having nice discussions about graal or anything else. We will not ask anything else than respecting basic rules that make everyone talk together, the respect!

If such community is active and friendly, we could even organize or participate to some nice meeting like we have done in Germany with the Atlantis community.

This thread is open for discussion but it will be strictly moderated. It is not the goal of this thread to advertise any forum or put spam. Try to make a message to give your opinion or idea not only to say you are against someone else opinion or idea.

Thanks.

Unixmad, Stefan and the GraalOnline administration team..

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by Hiro

So wait, you mean GraalOnline rules of conduct or these forum rules? They are different.

For example, does an advertised forum have to hide it's off-topic section and require that each member join a group approved by a moderator like the lounge is hidden here?

We don't expect third-party forums to follow these forums' rules by or in itself, but proper behavior is expected to be enforced as it would be in-game. This means no harassment, no pornography, etc if the page is being linked from the server. We will only ask servers not to advertise websites that are promoting harassment of users, or pornographic/illegal content.

Originally Posted by Rufus

Might want to reword this.

I see nothing wrong with the wording of the rules. It clearly states GraalOnline's position is that we accept the creation of third-party sites and that falls in line with unixmad's post. I really do not think unixmad would support a website being advertised on Graal's servers if it contains harassment or illegal content.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

We don't expect third-party forums to follow these forums' rules by or in itself, but proper behavior is expected to be enforced as it would be in-game. This means no harassment, no pornography, etc if the page is being linked from the server. We will only ask servers not to advertise websites that are promoting harassment of users, or pornographic/illegal content.

You might want to change the "as would be expected in-game or on the official GraalOnline forums," part then, as it sounded like the PWA expected 3rd party forums to be moderated in the same fashion as these forums are.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Fixed. It was originally intended to be very vague.

Thanks. Vague is fine but the original wording didn't make any sense (encrypting ≠ hashing).

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

I see nothing wrong with the wording of the rules. It clearly states GraalOnline's position is that we accept the creation of third-party sites and that falls in line with unixmad's post. I really do not think unixmad would support a website being advertised on Graal's servers if it contains harassment or illegal content.

You don't encourage the creation of third-party websites but they are permitted. Well, we can assume that these rules are aimed towards members of the community who are not a part of the anti-websites that are around. I think that those websites being unacceptable are pretty much a given. However, the new rules state that you don't "encourage" the creation of third-party websites. Doesn't every online game (hell, every business) encourage the creation of third party websites? It seems like something that has always been done, and by the sounds of it, something that Unixmad actually encourages.

I can understand what you are trying to say, but I don't believe that you should say that third-party websites are discouraged because they shouldn't be.

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by Hiro

You might want to change the "as would be expected in-game or on the official GraalOnline forums," part then, as it sounded like the PWA expected 3rd party forums to be moderated in the same fashion as these forums are.

The word "or" is there because it is meant to be interpreted as "either this or that". Sites have full control over how they moderate themselves obviously, but if they are being advertised in-game via NPC-Server PMs or otherwise, they should be properly moderated in some fashion. Offering the "official GraalOnline forum" rules is only an example of how things could be moderated if people are unsure.

Originally Posted by Rufus

You don't encourage the creation of third-party websites but they are permitted. Well, we can assume that these rules are aimed towards members of the community who are not a part of the anti-websites that are around. I think that those websites being unacceptable are pretty much a given. However, the new rules state that you don't "encourage" the creation of third-party websites. Doesn't every online game (hell, every business) encourage the creation of third party websites? It seems like something that has always been done, and by the sounds of it, something that Unixmad actually encourages.

I can understand what you are trying to say, but I don't believe that you should say that third-party websites are discouraged because they shouldn't be.

I understand what you mean, I'll change the words to make better sense. These rules were aimed to prevent sites that have popped up on servers that promote harassment of users and post pornographic content, not to discourage positive external communities in any way.

Most importantly, unixmad can enforce any rules as he sees fit on Graal. The Playerworld Rules are more guidelines to be followed that shall be enforced by the PWA team itself, not by GraalOnline as a company. I have no authority to speak on behalf of GraalOnline itself.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

The word "or" is there because it is meant to be interpreted as "either this or that". Sites have full control over how they moderate themselves obviously, but if they are being advertised in-game via NPC-Server PMs or otherwise, they should be properly moderated in some fashion.

I guess I read it a bit to literally.

[Tigairius]

I should also make it clear that these rules only apply when a server actively advertises the website or incorporates the site as part of the server's community (such as telling its users in-game to "check the forums for updates"). As long as a site is not being advertised in-game via NPC-Server PMs or notifications and the website is not known as being part of that server, it doesn't matter what is posted on there as far as we're concerned.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

I should also make it clear that these rules only apply when a server actively advertises the website or incorporates the site as part of the server's community. As long as a site is not being advertised in-game via NPC-Server PMs or notifications, it doesn't matter what is posted on there as far as we're concerned.

Should clear that up on the rule itself by rewording

Third-party websites and forums which support the online community are permissible, but any third-party website that is advertised on the server (through NPC-Server PMs or otherwise) must properly enforce behavior as would be expected in-game or on the official GraalOnline forums.

to

Third-party websites that are advertised on the server (through NPC-Server PMs or otherwise) must properly enforce the following:

etc.

The original makes it sound like you're only referring to your target third-party websites once and that the rest applies to every third-party website including those not advertised by servers and so on. Gives it a bad impression and perpetuates the wrong image you're trying to convey.

Overall I can see the intentions of this rule and agree with it.

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by Crono

Should clear that up on the rule itself by rewording

Check again, everything is clear now? I appreciate the feedback. It's pretty important to me that everybody clearly understands how we are trying to enforce these rules.

[Crono]

Better.