Graal Forums  

Go Back   Graal Forums > General Forums > Graal Main Forum (English)
FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #91  
Old 12-08-2009, 02:33 AM
cbk1994 cbk1994 is offline
the fake one
cbk1994's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 10,718
cbk1994 has a reputation beyond reputecbk1994 has a reputation beyond reputecbk1994 has a reputation beyond reputecbk1994 has a reputation beyond reputecbk1994 has a reputation beyond reputecbk1994 has a reputation beyond reputecbk1994 has a reputation beyond reputecbk1994 has a reputation beyond reputecbk1994 has a reputation beyond reputecbk1994 has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to cbk1994
The listing should be up-to-date, but it's missing a lot of information, such as examples of work, contact information, and specific skills. Personally, I think there's no point of there being a Global Development Team if they aren't easy to contact and easy to learn about (as in, who does what), so it'd be a good idea to take advantage of the page (I can update stuff if someone doesn't have gold or a wiki account).
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 12-08-2009, 05:06 AM
Hiro Hiro is offline
\(^∀^)メ(≧∇≦)ノ
Hiro's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,965
Hiro has a spectacular aura aboutHiro has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to Hiro
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crono View Post
lol, what?
the current stated goals are easy in comparison to what the group could be contributing, though documentation is awesome
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 12-08-2009, 06:55 AM
LoneAngelIbesu LoneAngelIbesu is offline
master of infinite loops
LoneAngelIbesu's Avatar
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Toldeo, Ohio
Posts: 1,049
LoneAngelIbesu has a spectacular aura aboutLoneAngelIbesu has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to LoneAngelIbesu
Quote:
Originally Posted by salesman View Post
I'm not saying the GDT can be fully functional and do the things we want it to do without strong leadership, but its members shouldn't use that as an excuse for doing nothing. There's a few people out there who have already proven that they don't need a big boss man to start helping (eg Jerret, Chris and Dusty), but on the other hand there's people who are sitting on their GDT tag because "they don't have a leader".
I don't think it's fair to say they it can't be used as an excuse. Nobody really quite knows what to do. We had the Graaloween project, but there weren't many details as to what we were supposed to actually be doing. Another project that was discussed was a Global Event Server, which suffers from the same lack of objectives and organization as Graaloween.

Those, in addition to various graphics and documentation projects, are all that have been discussed. Some of us have taken on personal projects, like myself. But that's just me scripting something and releasing it into the Code Gallery with a GDT stamp on it.

Lack of a leader organizing everything will be the downfall of the GDT, if it already hasn't been. There's a reason why nearly every working community in the world has a system of leadership (businesses, governments, GraalOnline & servers, etc). This whole co-op, we're all equals, let's hold hands around the campfire thing just doesn't work. But I've said all of this before and the sound of my own internal voice is starting to annoy me.

I was told that Bell was going to come in and take a gander, but I don't even know if she's settled in to her new home yet.
__________________
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."
— Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere's Fan
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 12-08-2009, 07:42 AM
Hiro Hiro is offline
\(^∀^)メ(≧∇≦)ノ
Hiro's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,965
Hiro has a spectacular aura aboutHiro has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to Hiro
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu View Post
I don't think it's fair to say they it can't be used as an excuse. Nobody really quite knows what to do. We had the Graaloween project, but there weren't many details as to what we were supposed to actually be doing. Another project that was discussed was a Global Event Server, which suffers from the same lack of objectives and organization as Graaloween.

Those, in addition to various graphics and documentation projects, are all that have been discussed. Some of us have taken on personal projects, like myself. But that's just me scripting something and releasing it into the Code Gallery with a GDT stamp on it.

Lack of a leader organizing everything will be the downfall of the GDT, if it already hasn't been. There's a reason why nearly every working community in the world has a system of leadership (businesses, governments, GraalOnline & servers, etc). This whole co-op, we're all equals, let's hold hands around the campfire thing just doesn't work. But I've said all of this before and the sound of my own internal voice is starting to annoy me.

I was told that Bell was going to come in and take a gander, but I don't even know if she's settled in to her new home yet.
could we imply that some leader should be voted or appointed (probably appointed) as the head of the GDT (basically giving someone a team of the most competent developers to work with) with the job of directing the GDT to improve graal overall?
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 12-08-2009, 03:36 PM
Crono Crono is offline
:pluffy:
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sweden
Posts: 20,000
Crono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post
the current stated goals are easy in comparison to what the group could be contributing, though documentation is awesome
No they aren't, that is if you have any standards in quality. The first graalmypics was a bit of a mess, there was nothing after that. "We" tried to do one last year but the amount of work was too much for the 4 of us to handle.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 12-08-2009, 04:32 PM
Imperialistic Imperialistic is offline
graal player lord
Imperialistic's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,094
Imperialistic is a jewel in the roughImperialistic is a jewel in the rough
GDT is not really what I expected at all.

Their are servers failing to complete projects (i.e Unholy Nation) because the lack of scripters. How can I server improve itself without no development progress?

Isn't that where GDT should step in, and help out since they have nothing better to do?
I guess I have the whole concept of the GDT wrong, but still.
__________________
" It's been swell, but the swelling's gone down. "
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 12-08-2009, 05:06 PM
fowlplay4 fowlplay4 is offline
team canada
fowlplay4's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,200
fowlplay4 has a reputation beyond reputefowlplay4 has a reputation beyond reputefowlplay4 has a reputation beyond reputefowlplay4 has a reputation beyond reputefowlplay4 has a reputation beyond reputefowlplay4 has a reputation beyond reputefowlplay4 has a reputation beyond reputefowlplay4 has a reputation beyond reputefowlplay4 has a reputation beyond reputefowlplay4 has a reputation beyond reputefowlplay4 has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperialistic View Post
GDT is not really what I expected at all.

Their are servers failing to complete projects (i.e Unholy Nation) because the lack of scripters. How can I server improve itself without no development progress?

Isn't that where GDT should step in, and help out since they have nothing better to do?
I guess I have the whole concept of the GDT wrong, but still.
They haven't requested scripting help (From what I see in the Global Forums), so why are you expecting us to be there?

As for the Graalympics, that really needs PWA or Stefan involvement with Playerworld Managers to ensure that it gets done, GDT can't really enforce anything.
__________________
Quote:
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 12-08-2009, 05:07 PM
Vulcan Vulcan is offline
Registered User
Vulcan's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 641
Vulcan is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperialistic View Post
GDT is not really what I expected at all.

Their are servers failing to complete projects (i.e Unholy Nation) because the lack of scripters. How can I server improve itself without no development progress?

Isn't that where GDT should step in, and help out since they have nothing better to do?
I guess I have the whole concept of the GDT wrong, but still.
It is, and I will be happy to help out and also forward information to the other members for these kind of projects if someone contacts us with details.
__________________

Playerword Issues: Support Center
Email: [email protected]


Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 12-08-2009, 06:06 PM
salesman salesman is offline
Finger lickin' good.
salesman's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,865
salesman has much to be proud ofsalesman has much to be proud ofsalesman has much to be proud ofsalesman has much to be proud ofsalesman has much to be proud ofsalesman has much to be proud ofsalesman has much to be proud of
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu View Post
I don't think it's fair to say they it can't be used as an excuse. Nobody really quite knows what to do. We had the Graaloween project, but there weren't many details as to what we were supposed to actually be doing. Another project that was discussed was a Global Event Server, which suffers from the same lack of objectives and organization as Graaloween.

Those, in addition to various graphics and documentation projects, are all that have been discussed. Some of us have taken on personal projects, like myself. But that's just me scripting something and releasing it into the Code Gallery with a GDT stamp on it.

Lack of a leader organizing everything will be the downfall of the GDT, if it already hasn't been. There's a reason why nearly every working community in the world has a system of leadership (businesses, governments, GraalOnline & servers, etc). This whole co-op, we're all equals, let's hold hands around the campfire thing just doesn't work. But I've said all of this before and the sound of my own internal voice is starting to annoy me.

I was told that Bell was going to come in and take a gander, but I don't even know if she's settled in to her new home yet.
If the leader is just going to be another random member, then I don't see how having one will allow you to do anything you can't already do on your own. You say organization is a must, but what's stopping you from getting things organized yourself? A leader is just going to tell you what you already know: Write a wiki page on _____. Create a _____ system to release to the code gallery. Do ____ (something that anyone, even non-GTD, can already do).

This brings me back to the point I tried to make before the GDT was created. The team is pointless because the only thing separating its members from regular players is the "(Global Development Team)" appending their names.

There's only so much a regular developer can do, and it definitely doesn't require a global staff tag. People who didn't want to help before aren't going to suddenly help now that they are part of a fancy guild. If Stefan or someone with more access and rights were to lead the team, then yeah, things would great and I could see a lot of good come out of the GDT...but that clearly isn't the case.
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 12-08-2009, 06:16 PM
Vima Vima is offline
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 542
Vima is an unknown quantity at this point
Let's see if we can get this ball moving when I now am finally added to the team.
__________________
*aka SwedishKing*
Reply With Quote
  #101  
Old 12-08-2009, 06:41 PM
Matt Matt is offline
iZone Administrator
Matt's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: United States
Posts: 2,690
Matt is a jewel in the roughMatt is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by salesman View Post
If the leader is just going to be another random member, then I don't see how having one will allow you to do anything you can't already do on your own. You say organization is a must, but what's stopping you from getting things organized yourself? A leader is just going to tell you what you already know.

Seriously
? Good leadership doesn't work that way at all. Structure and direction is needed for success. That's like saying a Manager can hire a bunch of developers, and be inactive because he/she has plenty of staff. Nothing will get accomplished if they're just working on what they want, or what they think is cool. Some sort of plan needs to be followed, even if it's mild.

If they don't want leadership (Which isn't the case by the way), then close this thread, and disband the 'GDT'. Simple.

I can't wait for Bell to reply.
__________________
Need Playerworld or Account support?
GraalOnline/Toonslab Support Center
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 12-08-2009, 10:01 PM
MysticX2X MysticX2X is offline
Prince
MysticX2X's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 2,529
MysticX2X will become famous soon enough
I didn't really read through the whole thread, but isn't there 3 other PWA who could help lead this team? Sorry if that sounds a little ignorant.

Like most others in this thread I never found any real purpose with the GDT.
__________________
-Mystic

former acc: mystic2k


RIP Matt (NBK)
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 12-08-2009, 10:27 PM
LoneAngelIbesu LoneAngelIbesu is offline
master of infinite loops
LoneAngelIbesu's Avatar
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Toldeo, Ohio
Posts: 1,049
LoneAngelIbesu has a spectacular aura aboutLoneAngelIbesu has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to LoneAngelIbesu
Quote:
Originally Posted by salesman View Post
If the leader is just going to be another random member, then I don't see how having one will allow you to do anything you can't already do on your own. You say organization is a must, but what's stopping you from getting things organized yourself? A leader is just going to tell you what you already know: Write a wiki page on _____. Create a _____ system to release to the code gallery. Do ____ (something that anyone, even non-GTD, can already do).
Ideally this is how it would work. This is how Bell wanted it to work, too. But we don't live in an ideal world. People don't tend to get together, organize themselves, share equal power, etc. Inverness might have a different idea of what needs to be done than I do. He might think what I'm doing is completely useless. How do we decide what to do? If we're left to our own devices, are we really bound to any deadlines or standards?

A leader would function just like a good server manager: he or she would assign tasks, set deadlines, etc. Otherwise, we're relying on everybody agreeing on everything and taking responsibility for themselves and their work, including doing what needs to be done, rather than personal side projects. Ideal, but not very realistic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by salesman View Post
This brings me back to the point I tried to make before the GDT was created. The team is pointless because the only thing separating its members from regular players is the "(Global Development Team)" appending their names.
And the experience and skill, if you count those characteristics as anything important.

Quote:
Originally Posted by salesman View Post
There's only so much a regular developer can do, and it definitely doesn't require a global staff tag. People who didn't want to help before aren't going to suddenly help now that they are part of a fancy guild. If Stefan or someone with more access and rights were to lead the team, then yeah, things would great and I could see a lot of good come out of the GDT...but that clearly isn't the case.
Maybe there are members that joined with no intent on helping, but some of us actually understood what we were supposed to be doing.* The global tag (it is not a staff tag) is just to advertise the group.

But we (as in, the GDT members) have been asking about global RC. I don't think many people see the GDT as anything more than a glorified guild, simply because we're just 'regular players'. A global RC is a symbol on Graal, but it's also pretty useful for popping into servers and reminding them that we exist. Not to mention removing the necessity of server owners to add us to their staff lists for us to be able to log on (which some might never remove, causing some security problems when it comes to disgruntled ex-members); instead, they would just add rw rights to whatever it is they need our help with.

*As previously mentioned, a big chunk of what we're supposed to do is help servers to develop. As of yet, I have never personally been asked for help, and as far as know, neither have any other GDT scripters. Server owners probably aren't aware of our existence and what we do. It is our responsibility to advertise ourselves, and the last I checked this was being done.
__________________
"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."
— Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere's Fan
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 12-09-2009, 02:14 AM
Hiro Hiro is offline
\(^∀^)メ(≧∇≦)ノ
Hiro's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,965
Hiro has a spectacular aura aboutHiro has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to Hiro
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crono View Post
No they aren't, that is if you have any standards in quality. The first graalmypics was a bit of a mess, there was nothing after that. "We" tried to do one last year but the amount of work was too much for the 4 of us to handle.
two more graalympics were held after thyms, and although they were considered "unoffical" and had no global support whatsoever, they were still ran pretty well. the GDT could create the systems to make graalympics an annual event for all servers, but they don't seem to be aiming that high (for various reasons) which makes their current projects seem weak in comparison

imagine if you took the collective members of the GDT and had them create a new classic server, in whatever theme with whatever staff - it would have the most potential in terms of quality for a kind of graal revival project

the point being not that they should be making a server, it's that they should be focused onto some large projects with the benefit of all graal in mind (things like documentation) and focus less on the serverwide helpful-hand role. graal is small enough to have a team like the GDT focus in on single, big areas of graal and improve the quality overall. instead, they're being spread thin with little to no direction on what to help out with, or what to improve, making it less useful than it could be
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 12-09-2009, 03:00 AM
TSAdmin TSAdmin is offline
Forum Moderator
TSAdmin's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,980
TSAdmin is a splendid one to beholdTSAdmin is a splendid one to beholdTSAdmin is a splendid one to beholdTSAdmin is a splendid one to beholdTSAdmin is a splendid one to behold
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt View Post
I can't wait for Bell to reply.
You'll be waiting a while. She's not going to be around for a long time, remember?
__________________
TSAdmin (Forum Moderator)
Welcome to the Official GraalOnline Forums! Where sharing an opinion may be seen as a declaration of war!
------------------------
· User Agreement · Code of Conduct · Forum Rules ·
· Graal Support · Administrative Contacts ·
Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright (C) 1998-2019 Toonslab All Rights Reserved.