Graal Forums  

Go Back   Graal Forums > PlayerWorlds > PlayerWorlds Main Forum
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-11-2012, 02:11 AM
Hiro Hiro is offline
\(^∀^)メ(≧∇≦)ノ
Hiro's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,965
Hiro has a spectacular aura aboutHiro has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to Hiro
Reviving the classic-style server

So let's discuss the dying genre of the classic-style server.

What has typically kept this sort of style alive, a combination of sparring/PKing and events, seems to have fallen out of favor. I don't think the core group of sparring people play much anymore, and no one has PK'd seriously for quite awhile. Events has always been something people can enjoy, but it's not enough to hold a server up forever, as we've seen already. Especially when those events become stale, or rehashed.

I know UN is still there and is doing something to develop itself, though I haven't seen much in the way of a plan, at least posted on these forums. Classic is being reworked from scratch, though how they'll do things differently or recreate was it used to be is yet to be seen in full. NP seems to be in development, but God knows what the hell their trying to do anymore - first it was going to become a kingdoms-type server, now it's back to classic or something? Delteria has been in development for years with seemingly no real progress towards releasing, and again who knows how they'll attempt to revive the genre. Lastly, honestly having faith in a new UC server at this point seems pointless, since literally 99% of them fail before release.

Even I've tried my hands at making what I feel would be a revamped classic server, but with my poor development skills and inability to seem to hold together a group of developers to work on the same plan, everything has always fallen through.

So how can the classic-styled server make a comeback?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-11-2012, 02:26 AM
cbk1994 cbk1994 is offline
the fake one
cbk1994's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 10,718
cbk1994 has a reputation beyond reputecbk1994 has a reputation beyond reputecbk1994 has a reputation beyond reputecbk1994 has a reputation beyond reputecbk1994 has a reputation beyond reputecbk1994 has a reputation beyond reputecbk1994 has a reputation beyond reputecbk1994 has a reputation beyond reputecbk1994 has a reputation beyond reputecbk1994 has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to cbk1994
If you could go back to the golden age of classic servers (talking roughly the year 2000), do you think you'd still enjoy it now as much as you did then? I used to love playing Babylon and Unholy Nation, but can't honestly say I'd enjoy playing them now after the initial novelty wore off.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-11-2012, 02:31 AM
fowlplay4 fowlplay4 is offline
team canada
fowlplay4's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,200
fowlplay4 has a reputation beyond reputefowlplay4 has a reputation beyond reputefowlplay4 has a reputation beyond reputefowlplay4 has a reputation beyond reputefowlplay4 has a reputation beyond reputefowlplay4 has a reputation beyond reputefowlplay4 has a reputation beyond reputefowlplay4 has a reputation beyond reputefowlplay4 has a reputation beyond reputefowlplay4 has a reputation beyond reputefowlplay4 has a reputation beyond repute
If there's any kind of "PC classic comeback" I would see it coming from PC Classic. It will be interesting to see how their community-based content will turn out.

Times have changed since then and a lot of people really just want structure and to feel rewarded. Players just don't spontaneously decide that a level is theres and kill everyone who tries to go in it anymore not unless there's some kind of worthwhile reward for doing so.
__________________
Quote:
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-11-2012, 02:33 AM
Hiro Hiro is offline
\(^∀^)メ(≧∇≦)ノ
Hiro's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,965
Hiro has a spectacular aura aboutHiro has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to Hiro
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbk1994 View Post
If you could go back to the golden age of classic servers (talking roughly the year 2000), do you think you'd still enjoy it now as much as you did then? I used to love playing Babylon and Unholy Nation, but can't honestly say I'd enjoy playing them now after the initial novelty wore off.
I would love to play on Doomsday again. No server has ever felt like home since it closed down, and no classic server has had the same sort of vibe DD did.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-11-2012, 02:51 AM
Loakey_P2P Loakey_P2P is offline
SL Oldbie
Loakey_P2P's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: U.S.A
Posts: 137
Loakey_P2P is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to Loakey_P2P Send a message via Yahoo to Loakey_P2P
Quote:
Originally Posted by fowlplay4 View Post
If there's any kind of "PC classic comeback" I would see it coming from PC Classic.
^ this . on a side note I'd be interested to see if Thor is going to have event's on it as i don't remember ever seeing any . Seem's like the old day's of classic style are long gone tho .
__________________
Shaded Legend Playerworld
-Past accounts - LoakeyTheElf - Loakey_P2P
-Past Servers - Rune - Sparitoria - Shaded Legends
-Past Sl Jobs * ET/LAT/NAT/LAT Admin/Developer/Admin/Head Admin/Asst. Manager/Manager
-Current Job - Retired

*Sorry you must have mistaken me for someone that cares .
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-11-2012, 03:10 AM
CujoDaMan CujoDaMan is offline
Shaded Legend Management
CujoDaMan's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Canada, Nova Scotia
Posts: 108
CujoDaMan is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to CujoDaMan Send a message via MSN to CujoDaMan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post
I would love to play on Doomsday again. No server has ever felt like home since it closed down, and no classic server has had the same sort of vibe DD did.
I actually agree with you on that one, Doomsday was one of the greatest servers i ever played. Tifa wouldn't let anyone at all Revive it though. It gave everyone a great feeling, miss those days for sure.
__________________
Last Manager of Shaded Legend
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-11-2012, 03:15 AM
Unkownsoldier Unkownsoldier is offline
Ignorance has no future
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,287
Unkownsoldier is on a distinguished road
The servers haven't changed in years, which I guess you could say is good and bad. It is good because the servers are still the servers you remember and played on but you feel like it is somewhat different. The difference is the gaming world has changed - at least in my opinion. Consumer tastes changed as technology advanced, computer games very popular in the mid 90's to somewhat mid 2000's (there are some exceptions WoW, minecraft, etc.) Instead of having to resort to a computer which back then seemed like one of the only viable options because you couldn't play with friends that weren't with you on your N64 or what have you - now a days you can play with friends on your xbox, wii, ps3, and even mobile devices.

Graal servers haven't changed a bit which means if the computer was the only option for today's gamers then the same awe you felt back then would still be here. I realize that games like runescape, habbo hotel, and other various online games are still experiencing massive numbers, but that is because they have revamped themselves to fit in with the current generation of gamers, they have found their niche. To be realistic, Graal compared to other games was never really that popular, and that's part of the reason why it was so good because of the community feel.

Graal hasn't adapted to what this generation has been asking for. To be honest I am not even sure what that is. Also the price is a part of the reason why there has been a decline in players but that's out of the players hands. What really needs to happen in my eyes is that all platforms are combined. We combine iphone, android, ipad, pc, and put clients on maybe an app for the xbox or ps3 if possible. We have all the servers such as UN, classic, zone, etc connected and shared between all the platforms. That would maximize players and probably the amount of fun.

Some people would be mad because their once tight knit group of friends are now over crowded by a lot of people. The people who were good sparrers and event players would be replaced by better ones. The once popular staff members would be replaced by more popular staff members etc. However, I think that is vital for fixing classic servers and Graal as a whole.
__________________
Look beyond the monitor.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-11-2012, 06:55 AM
Hiro Hiro is offline
\(^∀^)メ(≧∇≦)ノ
Hiro's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,965
Hiro has a spectacular aura aboutHiro has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to Hiro
Quote:
Originally Posted by CujoDaMan View Post
I actually agree with you on that one, Doomsday was one of the greatest servers i ever played. Tifa wouldn't let anyone at all Revive it though. It gave everyone a great feeling, miss those days for sure.
I did try (several times) to get DD back up.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Unkownsoldier View Post
Graal servers haven't changed a bit which means if the computer was the only option for today's gamers then the same awe you felt back then would still be here...To be realistic, Graal compared to other games was never really that popular, and that's part of the reason why it was so good because of the community feel.
I guess. But what's made Era, Zodiac, and those other types of servers stay alive that Classic-typed server didn't have? I don't think it's just the technology - FP4 is probably correct in that the rewards do not seem to be there anymore. Sparring/PKing used to be about making a name for yourself and your guild, and winning tournaments was actually recognized as something worthwhile. Families used to be a big thing, and being good at the game was necessary in order to join one. Now it's just, whatever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unkownsoldier View Post
Graal hasn't adapted to what this generation has been asking for. To be honest I am not even sure what that is. Also the price is a part of the reason why there has been a decline in players but that's out of the players hands. What really needs to happen in my eyes is that all platforms are combined. We combine iphone, android, ipad, pc, and put clients on maybe an app for the xbox or ps3 if possible. We have all the servers such as UN, classic, zone, etc connected and shared between all the platforms. That would maximize players and probably the amount of fun.

Some people would be mad because their once tight knit group of friends are now over crowded by a lot of people. The people who were good sparrers and event players would be replaced by better ones. The once popular staff members would be replaced by more popular staff members etc. However, I think that is vital for fixing classic servers and Graal as a whole.
I don't think it's really a matter of pulling in new players anymore. Let the newer platforms do that. Graal has a core community of players (strictly on the PC platform) who have stuck around for years and years, and it's never been appreciated in the sense of having the servers/clients tailored to their needs and wants. But that point ranges well out of just classic-styled servers.

And as a side note, there will never be good sparrers ever again at this rate. The community around now is not as good as it used to be, so I highly doubt they will be replaced by better ones; it's more that the void will be filled by lesser sparrers in the absence of the good ones who have left. And I say this because I can come back from not playing for months, not anywhere near my prime and not even practiced, and still roll kids easy. That would not have happened back in the day where sparring was a constant.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-11-2012, 10:53 AM
ffcmike ffcmike is offline
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: London
Posts: 2,029
ffcmike has a reputation beyond reputeffcmike has a reputation beyond reputeffcmike has a reputation beyond reputeffcmike has a reputation beyond reputeffcmike has a reputation beyond reputeffcmike has a reputation beyond reputeffcmike has a reputation beyond reputeffcmike has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to ffcmike Send a message via MSN to ffcmike
I personally think the common definition of "classic style servers" has been a misconception for a long time, and such I use the term "traditional style servers".

Traditional sword combat type activity has not fallen out of favour, for many still the simplisticness of it is just as fun if not more so than the level or weapon based combat new players are more familiar with.
There are 2 main reasons traditional servers have become a dying breed:
  1. Traditional servers did not differentiate much due to the developmental circumstances of the time.
  2. The overall Graal population was much higher, Graal was still transitioning from a free game to P2P.

To put it simply, traditional servers were in abundance, as the overall Graal population then lowered it was no longer viable for them all to remain populated. This also coincided with server development becoming more technically sophisticated, which meant these servers needed to adapt to the new scripting procedures or be left in the dust.

The problem faced with the more traditional type of server in future, is that it's going to be difficult for them all to prosper by offering the exact same thing. Particularly now that PC Graal is (supposed to be) transitioning even more towards a micro-transactions model, it's important that any server offers a certain level of uniqueness if it's to have any hope of being possible to play for free, and then actually be able to pull in new players significantly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Loakey_P2P View Post
^ this . on a side note I'd be interested to see if Thor is going to have event's on it as i don't remember ever seeing any .
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3A38CABEDA610450

It was actually quite early in Classic's redevelopment I made a 'Team Events System', which is basically to handle all the core team controls and then easily and quickly apply it to any team event, such as CTF, without re-inventing the wheel each time.
In the space of just 2 days I was able to remake King of the Mountain in both a large and (never properly implemented in the past) small mode. This "cop out" is turning out to be quite handy.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-11-2012, 12:53 PM
Crono Crono is offline
:pluffy:
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sweden
Posts: 20,000
Crono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond reputeCrono has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Crono
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbk1994 View Post
If you could go back to the golden age of classic servers (talking roughly the year 2000), do you think you'd still enjoy it now as much as you did then? I used to love playing Babylon and Unholy Nation, but can't honestly say I'd enjoy playing them now after the initial novelty wore off.
Of course. Look at the gameplay iClassic offers, the core of it is just pking, socializing, and sparring. The problem with this is that it revolves around an active community. Servers like Xone, Enigma, Doomsday, etc had relatively small communities (~40-50 on avg) but they were fun because of the community.

The reason why I can't stand UN is because its community has grown stale. You can partially blame the v5 subscription system for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fowlplay4 View Post
Times have changed since then and a lot of people really just want structure and to feel rewarded. Players just don't spontaneously decide that a level is theres and kill everyone who tries to go in it anymore not unless there's some kind of worthwhile reward for doing so.
You'd be surprised how little has actually changed in the last 12 years that I've played. If you recorded iClassic gameplay and took it back to 2002 with you, people would probably not be too surprised. As a matter of fact, some parts of iClassic are actually backwards. After G2k1 it was all about economies and trading (a new feature then) but this isn't present on iClassic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CujoDaMan View Post
I actually agree with you on that one, Doomsday was one of the greatest servers i ever played. Tifa wouldn't let anyone at all Revive it though. It gave everyone a great feeling, miss those days for sure.
Again, very community driven. I say my homeserver was Xone but it was nothing special. The levels were cute, there was an active pk/spar community, and people had their fun. What drove the server was the variety of players.

I guess I can sum up how I feel about "Classic' servers by saying they rely heavily on the community. inb4 Y U NO MENSHUN QUESTS CRANO??

p.s...props to anyone who remembers pking on Mithica right after they removed their p2p status. best pk server in the history of graal, hands down.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-11-2012, 02:38 PM
Rave_J Rave_J is offline
Graal Developer
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 848
Rave_J can only hope to improve
Send a message via AIM to Rave_J Send a message via MSN to Rave_J Send a message via Yahoo to Rave_J
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro View Post
So let's discuss the dying genre of the classic-style server.

What has typically kept this sort of style alive, a combination of sparring/PKing and events, seems to have fallen out of favor. I don't think the core group of sparring people play much anymore, and no one has PK'd seriously for quite awhile. Events has always been something people can enjoy, but it's not enough to hold a server up forever, as we've seen already. Especially when those events become stale, or rehashed.

I know UN is still there and is doing something to develop itself, though I haven't seen much in the way of a plan, at least posted on these forums. Classic is being reworked from scratch, though how they'll do things differently or recreate was it used to be is yet to be seen in full. NP seems to be in development, but God knows what the hell their trying to do anymore - first it was going to become a kingdoms-type server, now it's back to classic or something? Delteria has been in development for years with seemingly no real progress towards releasing, and again who knows how they'll attempt to revive the genre. Lastly, honestly having faith in a new UC server at this point seems pointless, since literally 99% of them fail before release.

Even I've tried my hands at making what I feel would be a revamped classic server, but with my poor development skills and inability to seem to hold together a group of developers to work on the same plan, everything has always fallen through.

So how can the classic-styled server make a comeback?
what about Aeon ??? were getting close
__________________
Graal Developer
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-11-2012, 05:46 PM
CujoDaMan CujoDaMan is offline
Shaded Legend Management
CujoDaMan's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Canada, Nova Scotia
Posts: 108
CujoDaMan is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to CujoDaMan Send a message via MSN to CujoDaMan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rave_J View Post
what about Aeon ??? were getting close
I don't think of Aeon as a "Classic-Style" Server, don't get me wrong it is a good server but I just don't seem to get the feel of it being a classic style, thats just my opinion.
__________________
Last Manager of Shaded Legend
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-11-2012, 07:12 PM
Rave_J Rave_J is offline
Graal Developer
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Texas
Posts: 848
Rave_J can only hope to improve
Send a message via AIM to Rave_J Send a message via MSN to Rave_J Send a message via Yahoo to Rave_J
elan world is classic theme we have different game styles on different worlds
__________________
Graal Developer
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-11-2012, 07:47 PM
Emera Emera is offline
Delterian Hybrid
Emera's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Newcastle Upon-Tyne
Posts: 1,704
Emera is a jewel in the roughEmera is a jewel in the rough
Hurry up and open Opan already: it's amazing!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-11-2012, 11:55 PM
MattKan MattKan is offline
the KattMan
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 1,325
MattKan is a splendid one to beholdMattKan is a splendid one to beholdMattKan is a splendid one to beholdMattKan is a splendid one to beholdMattKan is a splendid one to behold
Send a message via AIM to MattKan
Working on some community based content for Stroseria...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 12:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright (C) 1998-2019 Toonslab All Rights Reserved.