Bomy Island Staff Hiring

[Amagius]

Originally Posted by Googi

The important thing with kingdom leaders is that their authority had to come from respect. Having your authority come from "listen to what I say or you'll get kicked out" never resulted in a successful kingdom. NPC kings will never have authority with the players because they'll never have the players' respect.

Quoted for truth. I honestly would feel indifference with him dying, unless you added any little penalties to make us feel bad.

It might work, but when I roleplay, I like to have attachment in the platonic sense with the king. I like the ability to suck up.

[konidias]

Originally Posted by Googi

The important thing with kingdom leaders is that their authority had to come from respect. Having your authority come from "listen to what I say or you'll get kicked out" never resulted in a successful kingdom. NPC kings will never have authority with the players because they'll never have the players' respect.

Sounds just like real kingdoms. Do you honestly think everyone in a kingdom mourns the death of a king or something? Some people in kingdoms couldn't care less about the king.

I do not like the idea of some person getting all sorts of "respect" just for holding a position that requires little work. NPC kings will have greater authority than any person could ever have. If you betray your kingdom you could end up shackled or locked away for a while, or you could end up disbanded and considered an enemy by that kingdom and any of it's allies. There's also the possibility of being demoted.

Originally Posted by haunter

So basically you're going to be running every kingdom as you see fit and you plan on using these "NPC Kings" as your puppets?

Why such hostility? What do you think a "game master" or "dungeon master" does? They have to control the whole experience for the players. I don't honestly see a difference with me planning out certain events or five other people planning out the same events. Other than the fact that the more people needed for it, the more hassle it becomes.

As manager I plan to manage the server, and this includes managing things that impact the players and change the server. I myself know that I will be there to manage things, that is why I don't need a team of "kings" to do that. I trust very few people online, I think that's quite clear. I've had enough problems in the past with people staying loyal or keeping their word. It's extremely easy for one of the kings to just not want to log on one day and then make up an excuse whenever they decide to come back.

If you like having kings that disappear randomly with lame excuses, then you know where to play.

[Zurkiba]

Originally Posted by konidias

Sounds just like real kingdoms. Do you honestly think everyone in a kingdom mourns the death of a king or something? Some people in kingdoms couldn't care less about the king.

I'm pretty sure when a real king dies then there is a huge mourning ceromony and a ton of the population attends.

Originally Posted by konidias

I do not like the idea of some person getting all sorts of "respect" just for holding a position that requires little work. NPC kings will have greater authority than any person could ever have. If you betray your kingdom you could end up shackled or locked away for a while, or you could end up disbanded and considered an enemy by that kingdom and any of it's allies. There's also the possibility of being demoted.

You misread what Googi said.
"The important thing with kingdom leaders is that their authority had to come from respect"
What Googi is saying is that Respect -> Leadership... it's not Leadership -> Respect.

Originally Posted by konidias

Why such hostility? What do you think a "game master" or "dungeon master" does? They have to control the whole experience for the players. I don't honestly see a difference with me planning out certain events or five other people planning out the same events. Other than the fact that the more people needed for it, the more hassle it becomes.

I didn't sense hostility from him. He was stating a valid question.
And why cant five or so kings determine the experience of roleplaying with a hand of a Kingdom's Admin?

[konidias]

Originally Posted by Zurkiba

I'm pretty sure when a real king dies then there is a huge mourning ceromony and a ton of the population attends.

Thanks for stating the obvious and missing the point of what I said. Which is that I really doubt everyone at the ceromony actually cares. They have an obligation to be there.

You misread what Googi said.
"The important thing with kingdom leaders is that their authority had to come from respect"
What Googi is saying is that Respect -> Leadership... it's not Leadership -> Respect.

I didn't misread him. I'm saying that respecting the king is not vital, except when in the presence of the king. Many people in real kingdoms do not care about nor respect the king.

I didn't sense hostility from him. He was stating a valid question.
And why cant five or so kings determine the experience of roleplaying with a hand of a Kingdom's Admin?

He came off as sounding hostile because of the way he worded his question. Maybe it doesn't seem that way to you because you're being nearly as hostile as him.

The question is, why are five or so kings even needed?

[Discharge]

My feelings:

I oppose robots for Kings. I am pro-real people King, I enjoyed greatly role-playing with the monarchy and such.

[Zulithe]

Googi said:
Having your authority come from "listen to what I say or you'll get kicked out" never resulted in a successful kingdom.

No King I ever worked with ever acted this way. Maybe some of the later Kings did, after I let my account expire. It should never be that way. Noone should have to pay a monthly/yearly fee so that they can get bossed around. It should be fun for everyone. Any King who acted thusly is not King material, and something seriously went wrong when that King was chosen. If real people (staff or otherwise) get to be or control Kings this time, there should be some safety precautions in place to help remove "bad" rulers who act against the #1 rule which is to have fun and not to impede the fun of others.

Kingdom leaders will still gain respect, even if they are just NPCs most of the time. Actual people would be controlling the Kings at certain times (hopefully), which will make them seem more real. But with the NPC system, the King will be present even when the person who controlls the King is not logged into the game, making them more present. You get the best of both worlds.

I know that when I was a King, there were times of day I could not get online due to work, school or whatever. I'm sure there were members of my Kingdom who very rarely saw me "in game" which may have limited the experience for them. Imagine roleplaying a soldier when there is no ruler around to serve, protect or otherwise bounce roleplay off of. An NPC system helps to solve this. At the very least you would know where the King is at any given moment.

konidias said:
I do not like the idea of some person getting all sorts of "respect" just for holding a position that requires little work.

While I like the direction you wish to go with Kingdoms, I can tell you first hand that it is a LOT of work to be a ruler. Much more than it looks on the surface. You have to come up with roleplay plotlines with the other rulers, schedule roleplay events for when the right people are going to be online, manage the guild (Kingdom) list, personally attend the ceremony for when a new Knight/etc. enters the Kingdom (at least we did this in Dustari...), argue/haggle with level designers to work on your Kingdom (or do it yourself, which you obviously WON'T have time for if you plan on being a good and present King), deal with PMs which rival or exceed that of any staff, and I know this because I've been staff. And plenty more stuff.

[konidias]

Thank you for understanding why I'm doing this Zulithe. I'm glad at least one person can see the upsides of npc kings.

As far as it being a lot of work to be a ruler... yes, I'm sure it is. I can't possibly expect to rule all 5 kingdoms by myself, nor would I want to. But I'm going to make them as easy to manage as possible. Some of the problems you mentioned can be solved to make things easier... For example, the roleplaying plotlines will be scripted far in advance. In fact I've already started working on them. This way there will always be stuff waiting in the wing while other parts are being used. Since there aren't other rulers to have to discuss all the things with, it makes it easier for me. If I want say... two of the kingdoms to start fighting... I can simply write out a script for it. Instead of actually having to get two people to agree to go to war.

Roleplay events can be scheduled according to certain people being online... in fact, I plan to have that built in and scripted. The king npc would be able to detect immediately all of the members of his kingdom, whether they are on tag or not. This is another benefit of having an npc king.

Managing the guild is taken care of. Anyone is allowed to join one kingdom at any given time. However that doesn't mean the kingdoms will be full of people who don't RP. Seeing as how if you don't RP or follow rules accordingly, you'll get negative points (that you aren't even aware of) and you'd get punished in that kingdom or disbanded or whatever.

The npc king can attend every ceremony, and can hold them quite often. People who attend the ceremonies would recieve RP points for showing up, and also can lose or gain points by how they handle themselves at the ceremony. (like talking while the king is talking, or bringing a gift to the king, or something like that) Of course like I said, nobody will know EXACTLY what will give you points and what won't. I think it's just best to try and behave in a way that you think is best, and it will benefit you in the long run.

No arguing or haggling for levels will need to be done, as I or one of my LAT would be doing that ourselves, and with the king being an npc... they surely won't be getting any PMs. Heheh.

I don't think people understand that I'm trying to not only make things more fair and consistent for them, but also easier and more manageable for me. Having to handle 4-5 player kings and them having to handle all the issues you mentioned is just not sane. It could never be as organized or "professional" as my concept. Ever.

[haunter]

Originally Posted by konidias

I trust very few people online, I think that's quite clear.

I see that, yes... It seems to be a very large part of your reason for using NPC Kings. But really, what makes you think we (the players) should trust you more than Kingdom Leaders?

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by haunter

I see that, yes... It seems to be a very large part of your reason for using NPC Kings. But really, what makes you think we (the players) should trust you more than Kingdom Leaders?

I'd think we'd be more concerned with his admin-level RC access if we were going to question his trustworthiness.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by konidias

Sounds just like real kingdoms. Do you honestly think everyone in a kingdom mourns the death of a king or something? Some people in kingdoms couldn't care less about the king.

That's not what I was saying. I'm saying that more of a kingdom leader's authority flows from their respect than their position. Just look at what's happening to Etien and Kefkin on 2K2.

[konidias]

Originally Posted by haunter

I see that, yes... It seems to be a very large part of your reason for using NPC Kings. But really, what makes you think we (the players) should trust you more than Kingdom Leaders?

Well... I am the manager. You have to trust me with everything, really. I think it's easier to trust one person than it is trusting like 5 different people.

Originally Posted by protagonist

I'd think we'd be more concerned with his admin-level RC access if we were going to question his trustworthiness.

Hahaha. Exactly. Sometimes people question things without actually thinking them through.

[haunter]

Originally Posted by konidias

Well... I am the manager. You have to trust me with everything, really. I think it's easier to trust one person than it is trusting like 5 different people.

I meant more in the sense of how can we trust you to be a good five kings. I don't mean how can we trust you wont go crazy and start deleting all the kingdom members/server content. How can we be certain you're so reliable that you'll be able to show up to run your puppets when needed. You said it's easier to trust one person rather than 5... But nevertheless if said one person doesn't come through, you're cheesed... On the other hand if one of 5 doesn't come through the other 4 are still there to keep things going... Plus, with NPC kings there are no "second in command"; with player kings if the king is unable to show up to an event for some reason, there are other high-ranking players to take their place.

I'll admit I like the idea of NPCs giving small kingdom based quests, but I dont think it's such a good idea to remove the players' ability to control how their kingdoms will run. By removing the aspect of 4 or 5 different people each running their own group of people you're destroying something. Each person has different ideas, different motives, they react differently to certain situations, hell even personal emotions come in to play... You might think that some of these things are bad for the RP world, but I'd say it makes everything more interesting.

Just a few final questions for a while:

How complex do you expect to make these kings? I mean, it sounds pretty tricky, from what I can tell you're more into the graphical part of things.

Which kingdoms are you planing on using?

You said yourself that you were never involved in anything that had to do with kingdoms. How do you expect to be able to run 5 of them all on your own? How can you be so certain that your Kingdoms System is better than the previous one?

Are you taking into account what the players are saying? So far I only count one that is for your Punch n' Judy Kingdoms System.

[konidias]

Originally Posted by haunter

How complex do you expect to make these kings? I mean, it sounds pretty tricky, from what I can tell you're more into the graphical part of things.

Which kingdoms are you planing on using?

You said yourself that you were never involved in anything that had to do with kingdoms. How do you expect to be able to run 5 of them all on your own? How can you be so certain that your Kingdoms System is better than the previous one?

Are you taking into account what the players are saying? So far I only count one that is for your Punch n' Judy Kingdoms System.

Just because I'm most known for my graphics doesn't mean I can't script for beans. I plan to make the kings as complex as I can. They will get "emotional", they will hold ceremonies and events, they will interact with the other kings. (on a certain level)

I plan to use Samurai, Dustari, Zormite, and Pirate to start with. I think four kingdoms is plenty enough for the amount of players who would be on at any given time.

I said I wasn't involved in kingdoms? I don't recall saying that. I was part of Dustari for a while, back in the day. I was also going to be leader of forest kingdom on kingdoms but I ended up being game master instead. I had to plan out the whole island and I wrote up ranks and plots and everything that never got used.

I know how to roleplay and I have a pretty good idea of what people actually want. Even if you think I'm not listening, I am. If I weren't, I wouldn't even be responding to this thread. I'm positive my kingdoms system is better than the old, because the old system was complete shambles. There wasn't any real organization, and because I don't have to rely on other people, it makes things easier on me and I can be assured that I will do the job.

I'm not going to change my plans for npc kings however. I've thought about it a long time and I just feel it's the best choice. I'm not going to have player kings and that's my final word on the matter. But that doesn't mean I'm not listening to what you have to say, it just means I'm not going to bow to every demand.

[Judge_S]

Originally Posted by konidias

I said I wasn't involved in kingdoms? I don't recall saying that.

I'm pretty sure he's referring to this tidbit:

Originally Posted by konidias

I don't think kingdoms made the server. I was never really active in any kingdom and I played the server for years.

-Source

You say you were "never really active" but didn't say in what regard. If we just take the general sense of it, Shadow has credence to what he said.

Originally Posted by konidias

But that doesn't mean I'm not listening to what you have to say, it just means I'm not going to bow to every demand.

A moot point, but what have you decided to include from the suggestions that have been given right and left?

[konidias]

Oh yes, I remember that... I figured that's what he was referring to. By "never really active" I mean I didn't actively participate in roleplaying, because for the most part, there wasn't any.

I didn't originally plan to have any human act the role of the king at any given time, but I liked the idea and I think it would help make the kings feel more real.

As far as suggestions being given right and left... umm... I don't see these? I've already decided to use npc kings so "make kings human" is not a suggestion. If someone actually suggested some things for npc kings, then I'd be happy to tell you what I think.