Observer Mode pending removal!

[Starfire2001]

Originally Posted by Gos_pira

I bet dbug is one of scriptless / iw1r3d's multiple accounts...

Without a doubt.

[Gos_pira]

Originally Posted by dbug

And you guys want to take shots at anyone who argues otherwise? I think the phrase "grow up" applies here.

Take shots? I just pointed out what I thought, because your argumentation is the same. You were the one assuming things. So the "grow up" statement is more applicable to you than me.

[dbug]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

That's not at all what I have said, you keep twisting and exaggerating things.



When this decision was made there was already no players left, so it was clear that things hadn't worked out, and there is currently no hope of anything changing in such a way that could make a difference, what do you expect?
Even if we did decide to suddenly restart development in the hope of revitalizing the server, it's fair to say it would probably require another period of being UC anyway.

I have also not encouraged staff of any other server to discontinue their efforts, so in all the effect is negligible.

Since the release of classic, the biggest update was TCG.. Which people don't even care about. Notice how everyone did every last single one of the quests imediately after the server was released? It actually entertained people, the people left because they felt highly jipped by you. You brought them a server, reset them ALL and gave them nothing new to do other then TCG which requires 2 people be on the server. Its hard to even get 2 people on the server when they have completed everything. You arn't even interested in proving anyone wrong that classic still has a chance by spending what? a week? a month? of time here and there to develop 1 actually single player aspect of the game since the launch? And you expected us to stick around? LOL there was alot of hype about the new swamp town.. followed by dissapointment when you said it would not be released. Seriously, prove us wrong and we will stop complaining about how you go about things. I believe scriptless even offered to pay you to continue developing.. and If I remember correctly he even offered to pay you before you started developing, so that the only one that could be scammed was him, not you. and yet you still declined. Your motives are clear, you dont care about us paying players. so why should we care about your server?

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by dbug

Since the release of classic, the biggest update was TCG.. Which people don't even care about.

It may well not be to your liking but that's a pretty wild statement. There have been times where there's been a dozen players within a single level alternating games between eachother, even before collecting was implemented. The problem really is that there needs to be a constant supply of players to keep it interesting.

Originally Posted by dbug

Notice how everyone did every last single one of the quests imediately after the server was released? It actually entertained people

That's great, I'd say quests are all about first impressions and hooking the interest of those who are trying the server for the first time.

Originally Posted by dbug

You arn't even interested in proving anyone wrong that classic still has a chance by spending what? a week? a month? of time here and there to develop 1 actually single player aspect of the game since the launch?

Have you ever developed a significant quest before?
If so you'd probably realise this type of thing takes a while to develop even with exclusive focus, hence why questing isn't in abundance on Graal these days. Do you think I should have focused on quest development while the day to day activity of the server was diminishing, instead of doing my utmost to try and keep the GC team stable?

Originally Posted by dbug

You brought them a server, reset them ALL and gave them nothing new to do other then TCG which requires 2 people be on the server. Its hard to even get 2 people on the server when they have completed everything. And you expected us to stick around?

Do you realise that there will always be an end-game point?
There has to be a balance between developing content to improve the server in the long run and the day to day operation. Any attempts to continue the quest line would have been futile if the day to day operation of the server did not remain stable.

Also keep in mind that we have not failed to do anything that any new server project has succeeded with.

Originally Posted by dbug

LOL there was alot of hype about the new swamp town.. followed by dissapointment when you said it would not be released.

Swamp Town was never meant to be anywhere near a release, it made complete sense to play it down. It would be a whole lot more disappointing if a promise was given that turned out to be completely false.

Originally Posted by dbug

Seriously, prove us wrong and we will stop complaining about how you go about things.

Who is this we?
You and your alt accounts, or you and your multiple personalities?

Originally Posted by dbug

I believe scriptless even offered to pay you to continue developing.. and If I remember correctly he even offered to pay you before you started developing, so that the only one that could be scammed was him, not you. and yet you still declined.

I never actually declined, just didn't take you seriously enough to even consider it.

Originally Posted by dbug

Your motives are clear, you dont care about us paying players. so why should we care about your server?

Most people I talk to recognize that we spent over 3 years non-stop redeveloping the server from scratch, and that I put in a mountain load of effort to try and keep things ticking after launch. If you don't care about the server then you're entitled to, but I do think you need to take a look at yourself and try and gain a sense of perspective.

[scriptless]

Psh, you guys arguing over here still? The offer still stands. Budget to motivate people is around $1,430-2000 tho, so it's like quit your job to give a crap about us.

Originally Posted by Gos_pira

I bet dbug is one of scriptless / iw1r3d's multiple accounts...

Actually, it was "iWir3D" and I don't go by that name since I created scriptless. And if your going to accuse people of being me you should do it right. It was the transition from being on the dark side creating trainers and working with Anti-Graal to becomming a productive member of the community helping out any server in need rather then trying to work on any single project of mine. Kinda a share the wealth thing.

[dbug]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

It may well not be to your liking but that's a pretty wild statement. There have been times where there's been a dozen players within a single level alternating games between eachother, even before collecting was implemented. The problem really is that there needs to be a constant supply of players to keep it interesting.



That's great, I'd say quests are all about first impressions and hooking the interest of those who are trying the server for the first time.



Have you ever developed a significant quest before?
If so you'd probably realise this type of thing takes a while to develop even with exclusive focus, hence why questing isn't in abundance on Graal these days. Do you think I should have focused on quest development while the day to day activity of the server was diminishing, instead of doing my utmost to try and keep the GC team stable?


Do you realise that there will always be an end-game point?
There has to be a balance between developing content to improve the server in the long run and the day to day operation. Any attempts to continue the quest line would have been futile if the day to day operation of the server did not remain stable.

Also keep in mind that we have not failed to do anything that any new server project has succeeded with.


Swamp Town was never meant to be anywhere near a release, it made complete sense to play it down. It would be a whole lot more disappointing if a promise was given that turned out to be completely false.



Who is this we?
You and your alt accounts, or you and your multiple personalities?



I never actually declined, just didn't take you seriously enough to even consider it.



Most people I talk to recognize that we spent over 3 years non-stop redeveloping the server from scratch, and that I put in a mountain load of effort to try and keep things ticking after launch. If you don't care about the server then you're entitled to, but I do think you need to take a look at yourself and try and gain a sense of perspective.

Well the problem is you focused on aspects of the server that required multiple people to be on the server, while kinda chasing off alot of people or discouraging them to play because of the reset. Alot of major games will reset people when they have expanded the content. Which is what I personally, and alot of other were really epecting. When that was not delivered we just went exploring what else there was to do.

When the TCG was the only option and one of the only 2 publicly known projects (tcg and swamp town) alot of people felt bored. While yes there was a little bit of buzz both before and after the TCG Packs were introduced thats really something that should have been expected to be low percentage of players actually interested in. It's more of rather a novelty item..

And yes I do understand games do have end-points. But the point is it's been over a half a year now with no actual expand to the origonal storyline. At least with the old classic there were more quests that took more then the 2-3 hours the current system offers. Players need to play a server more then just 2-3 hours to be addicted/hooked well enough to actually become part of the community. Genrally speaking people arnt even considered a member of the community untill they have around 100+ hour status on the server. And even then they are usually still considered noobs that may or may not stick around.

Honestly it would be neat to see what scriptless's offer would motivate the staff of classic to do. Since well, there priority isn't the players of the game who pay, nor to benefit the owners of the game.. it appear to be more of a self fulfillment you guys are reaching for. and maybe that will help provide it.

Really its been 5+ months and you have yet to prove anyone who has spoken out to you that adding quests will help. Players don't expect to see a fully finished server either. part of the fun is watching it grow, and thats vital to the health of the server. the lack of updates lately is just hindering the server itself more-so then the trial restrictions in place themself.

if UN can have healthy playercount with lower level quality server.. then I don't see why a server with such high standards as classic could not do the same? the proof is in the pudding my good sir and unless you can prove any of us (the players) wrong, your arguments don't really make much sense since your blame the failure of classic on the staff and not lack of actual updates.

[Starfire2001]

Originally Posted by dbug

if UN can have healthy playercount with lower level quality server.

Well that's certainly a matter of opinion.

I don't blame Thor for defending his decisions related to Classic when scriptless trying really hard to pretend he's not scriptless attacks him, but this is the UN subforum. It's too late now obviously but very much would have preferred we stuck to discussing UN's situation, as I think it's unique. Oh well.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by dbug

Well the problem is you focused on aspects of the server that required multiple people to be on the server, while kinda chasing off alot of people or discouraging them to play because of the reset.

The reset to everyone was an unfortunate mistake but the consequences of it were not dire, infact many players had expected a reset regardless of the option being announced.

Originally Posted by dbug

Alot of major games will reset people when they have expanded the content. Which is what I personally, and alot of other were really epecting.

The release of major new content often comes with problems. It would have always been better to release as much as possible within a beta phase, than to risk an increased burden when already occupied by a server launch.

Originally Posted by dbug

And yes I do understand games do have end-points. But the point is it's been over a half a year now with no actual expand to the origonal storyline. At least with the old classic there were more quests that took more then the 2-3 hours the current system offers. Players need to play a server more then just 2-3 hours to be addicted/hooked well enough to actually become part of the community. Genrally speaking people arnt even considered a member of the community untill they have around 100+ hour status on the server. And even then they are usually still considered noobs that may or may not stick around.

You do make some good points here, but you have to consider that quests are more targeted at legitimately new players, which observer mode tends to cause to log out in frustration long before the current end game point.

Originally Posted by dbug

Honestly it would be neat to see what scriptless's offer would motivate the staff of classic to do. Since well, there priority isn't the players of the game who pay, nor to benefit the owners of the game.. it appear to be more of a self fulfillment you guys are reaching for. and maybe that will help provide it.

You know it's not that difficult to be logged on 2 forum accounts at the same time within 20 minutes to at least give the impression that you might be separate people?

Originally Posted by dbug

the lack of updates lately is just hindering the server itself more-so then the trial restrictions in place themself.

Any significant update is going to be hindered by observer mode, while quest development specifically will be hindered by the supposed map restriction.
It would be silly to try once more, on top of previous efforts, when it is abundantly clear we are in a toxic environment.

Originally Posted by dbug

if UN can have healthy playercount with lower level quality server.. then I don't see why a server with such high standards as classic could not do the same?

As previously stated, there is a big difference between building a largely new community (something it was clear Classic would have to do years before the wipe) and holding on to an older one (the playercount also being much lower than a few years ago). UN has a stable community, but even Ph8 has admitted there's a feeling among management that the server will eventually die out if observer mode is never removed.

Originally Posted by dbug

since your blame the failure of classic on the staff

I have never blamed failure on Classic's staff.

Originally Posted by Starfire2001

It's too late now obviously but very much would have preferred we stuck to discussing UN's situation, a

I can understand why it would be frustrating for the discussion to have shifted to a different server, though UN does share some of the same problems mentioned.

[dbug]

Not classic staff, the higher staff.. Stefan/unixmad.. Classic made several descisions that ultimately killed it. The sparring because of custom systems pushed even the oldbies away.. And the Obs mode while it does hurt the server doesn't 100% stop players from playing. U have the advantage of quality content to entice upgrades.. Obs mode is not nearly as annoying as you guys think, I've played with it ALOT and it's a matter of opinion/preference.. Obviously in un's case it doesn't kill the server.. While yea the server may die it also lacks major quality content so to blame its future fail solely on Obs mode would be insane. Players stopped playing because no more quests and events are obsolete.. People want to spar but you have ruined there experience in there eyes.. I agree with you that the custom systems arnt really noticeable but as long as the placebo effect makes them believe it ruins it that's what matter... If u had more quests to entertain people a little longer noobs would be more willing to tolerate Obs mode at least they would be able to play with people not just by themselves because u pushed the rest of us away..

[mewtoo18]

Thor, wern't you already banned once globally for being obnoxious twards stefan and calling him an Ostrich as well as changing the observer mode message and several other things? And your still at it?

[Starfire2001]

Originally Posted by mewtoo18

Thor, wern't you already banned once globally for being obnoxious twards stefan and calling him an Ostrich as well as changing the observer mode message and several other things? And your still at it?

It's pretty easy to figure out who scriptless's alts are because he's the only one who agrees with himself.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by dbug

The sparring because of custom systems pushed even the oldbies away..

I have shown within a video that the scripted HD is doing exactly the same thing as the default HD, and broke it down into every little detail to explain what exactly it is doing. If that pushed oldbies away there is nothing more that could have been done about that, whereas using built-in systems in the first place would have limited what could be achieved with content.

Originally Posted by dbug

And the Obs mode while it does hurt the server doesn't 100% stop players from playing.

It forces us to prevent trials from playing events (which Stefan even said isn't a deliberate restriction), it has a high likelihood of interrupting a card game, there have been multiple times where a member of Help/FAQ staff have reported a trial logging out after entering observer mode whilst they were helping them within a quest, it can even cause bugs that require a trial to reconnect altogether and endure another bout of observer mode.

The 2 free weeks of gold saw a whole new group of new players get into the server, not only did it prove to be the difference between constant activity and no activity, it ironically resulted in a handful or so of trials upgrading.

Originally Posted by dbug

U have the advantage of quality content to entice upgrades..

Originally Posted by dbug

If u had more quests to entertain people a little longer noobs would be more willing to tolerate Obs mode.

Perhaps if the subscription price wasn't greater than a new Zelda release and didn't last a temporary amount of time that could be the case. As it is now we could probably double the questing content and it wouldn't make any significant difference in regards to trials upgrading.

Originally Posted by dbug

Obs mode is not nearly as annoying as you guys think, I've played with it ALOT and it's a matter of opinion/preference..

I'm guessing that when you played with observer mode you already knew what to expect of Graal and had an upgraded account or 5 to fall back to anyway.

Originally Posted by dbug

Obviously in un's case it doesn't kill the server.. While yea the server may die it also lacks major quality content so to blame its future fail solely on Obs mode would be insane.

Lifetime accounts have not been purchasable for 5 and a half years, most people with a lifetime account have either moved on in life, are moving on in life, or have given their account away.
This is something that will require significant replenishment sooner or later, I'm sure UN's staff would appreciate not having a system that essentially has the server's balls in a vicegrip.

Originally Posted by mewtoo18

Thor, wern't you already banned once globally for being obnoxious twards stefan and calling him an Ostrich as well as changing the observer mode message and several other things? And your still at it?

Those are really poor examples Scriptless, as I have not since called Stefan an ostrich or changed the observer mode text, and I don't believe I've said anything obnoxious towards him within this thread. It's also not as if I agreed to avoid bashing the policies.

[Felix_Xenophobe]

is that nerd really using alt accounts to post replies

i really hate nerds

[Gos_pira]

Originally Posted by Felix_Xenophobe

is that nerd really using alt accounts to post replies

i really hate nerds

Yes.

I know for a fact that mewtoo18 and scriptless are the same person.

[dbug]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

I have shown within a video that the scripted HD is doing exactly the same thing as the default HD, and broke it down into every little detail to explain what exactly it is doing. If that pushed oldbies away there is nothing more that could have been done about that, whereas using built-in systems in the first place would have limited what could be achieved with content.

That's what I am saying, it's un noticable. Also to guy who neg repped me *cough* Starfire2001 *cough* (helps when you don't neg rep imediatly when you post, timestamps are close enough to confirm who you are) saying UN doesn't have a lack of quality content.. uhm, yes it does. you log on to quest.. and the only way to do that you have to ask staff to run you through as fast as possible.. or link you to the walk thru site.. theres no way to figure it on your own other then dumb luck.. 99% of the server has focused on sparing, and events.. and you call that quality?