Observer Mode pending removal!

[DustyPorViva]

Era and Zodiac had the systems implemented before iOS servers and their marketing approach came along(at least as far as I remember).

The goal of said system should not be make the players feel forced to upgrade(by limiting them to only the starting area, or capping their hearts meaning they can't compete with other players), it should be to make them want to upgrade. Giving them ultimatums and a half-assed experience is only going to give them a half-assed opinion of the game. These limitations should make players feel as though they have a fair ground with paying players, yet make them want to either reward themselves, or reward the game, by paying for more.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Era and Zodiac had the systems implemented before iOS servers and their marketing approach came along(at least as far as I remember).

This isn't accurate, at least for Era. Classic iPhone was on the app store by 2009/12/14. I didn't even contact Stefan to begin negotiations for removing observer mode from Era until 2010/06/24. I still have the chain of emails, and I can tell you that I personally made a lot of changes and bent over backwards to get observer mode removed (although, as usual, 75% of the challenge was actually getting a responsefrom Stefan). We spent a lot of hours working on additional restrictions and the gelat shop, although we were able to finally get Stefan to follow through within a couple weeks.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by dbug

no other server is even interested in taking the first initial step of implimenting and proving it works, secured, and etc before asking for premission.

It is not practical to prove that a scripted restriction incites trials into upgrading when you already have such a prohibitive restriction as observer mode enforced on top of such a hefty temporary subscription price. That assumption is also not entirely true, UN and Classic have had restrictions in place with a view to it being an official restriction should observer mode be removed.

Originally Posted by dbug

u gotta remember.. graal is trying to make you pay for something.. but everyone complains it makes the game unplayable in such and such areas.. thats...the...point..

If Graal is trying to make you pay a price greater than a new Zelda release for a temporary 12 month subscription, it is only reasonable to expect a decent experience of the game beforehand. Restricting players to a watered down and heavily restricted experience is more likely to just make them find a different game.

Originally Posted by dbug

like on classic they wanted to block the bridge heading north.. to my knowledge events would still work.. first quest would still work

First quest?
It's more equivalent to a quarter of a tutorial.

Originally Posted by dbug

allowing all but the "newest" quest wouldnt work as the trials would go psh ill just wait for another quest to come out and do the next one for free..

They'd have to miss out at a time where there's likely to be a buzz among upgraded players, who would also have the advantage of the latest item/HP.
I think that's better than having a static cut-off point and trials simply never coming back (Ideally there'd be no restriction, this is only meant as a compromise).

[dbug]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

It is not practical to prove that a scripted restriction incites trials into upgrading when you already have such a prohibitive restriction as observer mode enforced on top of such a hefty temporary subscription price. That assumption is also not entirely true, UN and Classic have had restrictions in place with a view to it being an official restriction should observer mode be removed.


If Graal is trying to make you pay a price greater than a new Zelda release for a temporary 12 month subscription, it is only reasonable to expect a decent experience of the game beforehand. Restricting players to a watered down and heavily restricted experience is more likely to just make them find a different game.


First quest?
It's more equivalent to a quarter of a tutorial.


They'd have to miss out at a time where there's likely to be a buzz among upgraded players, who would also have the advantage of the latest item/HP.
I think that's better than having a static cut-off point and trials simply never coming back (Ideally there'd be no restriction, this is only meant as a compromise).

The origonal purpose for trials was to test the game to make sure there pc (hardware) was appropriate for playing graal on.. would you not agree that pauing $60 USD or more to find out your crap computer cant run any servers at all? I guess with the introduction of the "guest" account it stired up alot of confusion. I think the point was that trial accounts at least save progress where guest accounts can be iffy.. especially if you format your pc and now have a new PCID... so in a sense.. trials are still working not only as designed but with much more respect for trials then before. Like I mentioned.. you get a commercial every so often after your first 4 hours of game play..you should probably be pissed at your cable provider for forcing commercials on you after you PAY for the service would you not agree? I mean its an equal comparison, I dont want commercials.. so whats the difference?

Yes I agree that having free to play, but pay for other benefits is definately the way to go.. but I did not create graal.. so the decision is not mine.. and i should not be a jerk about it to the owners who have created such a game beyond aparantly my, and everyone that play's ability to make such a extensive peice of software.. just my opinion tho..

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by dbug

Like I mentioned.. you get a commercial every so often after your first 4 hours of game play..you should probably be pissed at your cable provider for forcing commercials on you after you PAY for the service would you not agree? I mean its an equal comparison, I dont want commercials.. so whats the difference?

Originally Posted by dbug

Yes I agree that having free to play, but pay for other benefits is definately the way to go.. but I did not create graal.. so the decision is not mine.. and i should not be a jerk about it to the owners who have created such a game beyond aparantly my, and everyone that play's ability to make such a extensive peice of software.. just my opinion tho..

I think for a game that is highly dependent on volunteer developers and staff it is only reasonable for such people to ask questions of the policies, and push for real answers when they are constantly contradicted. Otherwise imagine if a very similar set of software did emerge where you did not have to worry about such policies, what would be a good reason to stay here?

[Cloven]

[dbug]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

I think for a game that is highly dependent on volunteer developers and staff it is only reasonable for such people to ask questions of the policies, and push for real answers when they are constantly contradicted. Otherwise imagine if a very similar set of software did emerge where you did not have to worry about such policies, what would be a good reason to stay here?

So your saying Stefan has nothing whatsoever to do with any development of any server? *cough* zone, iphone zone, graal kingdoms (which is heavily in c++) *cough* just to mention a few. As of right now, at least according to you, developers are on strike.. so there not developing actually.. why does there opinion even matter if they themselves refuse to develop?

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by dbug

So your saying Stefan has nothing whatsoever to do with any development of any server? *cough* zone, iphone zone, graal kingdoms (which is heavily in c++) *cough* just to mention a few. As of right now, at least according to you, developers are on strike.. so there not developing actually.. why does there opinion even matter if they themselves refuse to develop?

There is a massive difference between saying servers are highly dependent on volunteer developers & staff and saying servers have nothing to do with Stefan. What a bizarre assumption.

I have no idea what strike you are talking about, seems you're just fabricating things to suit your argument. Even if there was a formal strike, the opinion of someone that has developed non-stop for over 5 years and rebuilt a server completely from scratch really ought to matter at least a bit.

[dbug]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

There is a massive difference between saying servers are highly dependent on volunteer developers & staff and saying servers have nothing to do with Stefan. What a bizarre assumption.

I have no idea what strike you are talking about, seems you're just fabricating things to suit your argument. Even if there was a formal strike, the opinion of someone that has developed non-stop for over 5 years and rebuilt a server completely from scratch really ought to matter at least a bit.

the one that you convinced ALL of the classic staff to just stop developing?

also, u dont even care about graal.. your opinion should not matter.. your anti-stefan right now anyways

[Gos_pira]

I bet dbug is one of scriptless / iw1r3d's multiple accounts...

[dbug]

Originally Posted by Gos_pira

I bet dbug is one of scriptless / iw1r3d's multiple accounts...

What makes you think scriptless is the only one Thor has pissed off?

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by dbug

the one that you convinced ALL of the classic staff to just stop developing?

All of Classic's remaining staff felt near enough the same way that it didn't take any convincing.

Even so, it is difficult to go back to the drawing board and form a new development plan, not only under the present circumstances, but also while there are so many unanswered questions as to what exactly is supposed to be happening with PC Graal in future.

Originally Posted by dbug

also, u dont even care about graal.. your opinion should not matter.. your anti-stefan right now anyways

Yeah man I don't really care about observer mode, the subscription policy or countless other hindrances, I just want Stefan gone, that's great logic.

Originally Posted by dbug

What makes you think scriptless is the only one Thor has pissed off?

If Scriptless has multiple personality disorder that would explain a lot.

[Gos_pira]

Originally Posted by dbug

What makes you think scriptless is the only one Thor has pissed off?

That's not what I said. But the argumentation is very similar.

[dbug]

Originally Posted by Gos_pira

That's not what I said. But the argumentation is very similar.

Well, it's pretty simple. The forums are public for all to read.

Thor seems to think untill OBS mode and other hinderances are remobved that graal is non-deserving of the content he has made. So it deserves the other servers I take it? And if you apply the same logic to that, the whole system collapses. So I guess he expects people to pay $60 a year for 0 content at all.. since well, obviously graal is not worthy.

By him not developing content, and his attitude influencing others to not develop hes really only hurting US the players, not the owners whom make all of there profits off iOS anyways.

And you guys want to take shots at anyone who argues otherwise? I think the phrase "grow up" applies here.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by dbug

Thor seems to think untill OBS mode and other hinderances are remobved that graal is non-deserving of the content he has made.

That's not at all what I have said, you keep twisting and exaggerating things.

Originally Posted by dbug

By him not developing content, and his attitude influencing others to not develop hes really only hurting US the players

When this decision was made there was already no players left, so it was clear that things hadn't worked out, and there is currently no hope of anything changing in such a way that could make a difference, what do you expect?
Even if we did decide to suddenly restart development in the hope of revitalizing the server, it's fair to say it would probably require another period of being UC anyway.

I have also not encouraged staff of any other server to discontinue their efforts, so in all the effect is negligible.