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  #16  
Old 12-12-2006, 07:50 PM
Loriel Loriel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyhm View Post
3a) If the PW Owner owns his PW - can he be considered "breaking the rules" on what is effectively Private Property? Do the Java Ninjas come rampaging onto all Java apps and enforce their will? No, I think under the current methodology a PW Owner can't be in violation of any rules at all
But it is all running on Graal's hosting under Graal's name and everything. If all Java apps were hosted on Sun's servers, I am sure they would have ninjas enforcing their will all over the place.


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3b) The level manager shouldn't get access to the Last Backup of the server though, and shouldn't be handed it under any circumstances
Why not? It seems like it would be in Graal's best interest that the levels dude can get a world up and running as soon as possible, so he should be handed the version of the server that is the furthest progressed.

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4a) the Zergling Rush theory and the Protoss theory.
Still voting for Ghost PWA where they just occasionally nuke servers that really suck

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5b) Even if I'm the only one that thinks it's a good idea, I still say there should be a global locker for things PWs don't mind sharing.
Stuff like that can be posted on either wiki, the scripting forum and graal.net, no?
I do not really see a lot of people contributing interoperable quality scripts, though.

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But then, I think all the servers should be connected at the Hubworld, so what do I know?
Did you ever come up with a concrete design or mockup implementation of Hubworld?
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  #17  
Old 12-12-2006, 08:09 PM
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@Tyhm -> Owner = Owner, he gives the rights he wants to give to the people who need them (or he wants them to have the rights he gives them)..
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  #18  
Old 12-12-2006, 09:29 PM
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I think the Hosted tab is just really tacky =/
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  #19  
Old 12-13-2006, 05:30 AM
Tyhm Tyhm is offline
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Originally Posted by Loriel View Post
Why not? It seems like it would be in Graal's best interest that the levels dude can get a world up and running as soon as possible, so he should be handed the version of the server that is the furthest progressed.
While I don't disagree with you, under the current guidelines it's quite impossible - the levels are property of Insano the Past Owner, and it would be considered theft (by some) for Graal to use it once Insano's burnt down his server. It's theft for Developo the LAT Admin to use it too. One could argue that there's still the disclaimer "All content submitted becomes property of GraalOnline.com", but if Graal starts flexing that muscle one must ask why anyone's asked to pay for that privelege.
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Originally Posted by Loriel View Post
Stuff like that can be posted on either wiki, the scripting forum and graal.net, no?
I do not really see a lot of people contributing interoperable quality scripts, though.
Not as such - the Wiki doesn't have a lot of FileSpace for uploading ganis, graphics, levelfiles, etc.

But then, I think there should be a GPack filetype - a sort of Custom Graal Zip Format, just for backing up servers and transferring entire NPCs, etc. (graphics, classes and all)
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Originally Posted by Loriel View Post
Did you ever come up with a concrete design or mockup implementation of Hubworld?
Design yes, mockup not-yet. I just haven't had the time, ironically - all of last week I was bored to tears and would have, had I known Stefan had any interest in designing the necessary technology to allow Servers to communicate with one another. Now they're working me from the moment they drag me outta bed to the moment I'm allowed to sleep...

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Originally Posted by Magadal View Post
@Tyhm -> Owner = Owner, he gives the rights he wants to give to the people who need them (or he wants them to have the rights he gives them)..
Sure, okay. But if it's Owner, why are we even discussing what happens if an Owner goes rogue? They can't, they're in charge, they can't break the law because they ARE the law. If they decide their server's gonna be DBZ themed and they're gonna ban anyone who says Inu Yasha, they're not "Wrong", because they Own that territory and set their own rules. If they decide, with a reliable 300 playercount, that they don't like Unixmad anymore and are going to delete every last shred of their server - and forbid anyone from ever making another server like it, least of all their levels administrator - they Own that content (and more dastardly, the guy who made it doesn't), and that's their right.

And that sucks. If nobody's using the content, you should be allowed to use it.
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  #20  
Old 12-13-2006, 06:20 AM
Devil Devil is offline
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More PWA members is important, especially for timezones that other people can't get into contact with globals.

This has been a problem since I've played, is finding someone on in my timezone to help me with problems.
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  #21  
Old 12-13-2006, 07:20 AM
Tyhm Tyhm is offline
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Originally Posted by Devil View Post
More PWA members is important, especially for timezones that other people can't get into contact with globals.

This has been a problem since I've played, is finding someone on in my timezone to help me with problems.
Hmmm....this actually ties in with another Common Complaint I've heard a lot...getting in touch with Anyone at certain times.

Maybe Graal needs a Bat-Phone. You know, the Comissioner picks up the red phone, and in Stately Wayne Manor the red phone under the glass starts blinking - same idea, in case of emergency there's a way to get in touch with ____.
But such information would necessarily be limited to precious few people, as too many people would misjudge "emergencies"...so there'd need to be a handfull of global staffers anyway...which ultimately means we'd need something like 12 PWA-type globals so one can be available at all times...in which case they may as well be capable of fixing it themselves...
*shrugs* I dunno, maybe it's something that could be worked into whatever New Website they make and maybe it can't. Log in - Report Emergency - whichever Global's on the clock/watching the taskbar/RC (be they Darlene or Houdiniman or NewIbonic or whomever - just someone the Top Two trust with the pager) checks it out and goes "OMG, Kingdoms crashed!" and they wake up Stefan.

As to actually having 8-24 PWAs so there's always at least one on at all hours to deal with any potential emergency that may arise...I never ran the GP, but Classic's GP were constantly striving for that and it never seemed to do them any good. Mind, they achieved it for a while, but it didn't last.
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  #22  
Old 12-13-2006, 08:10 AM
HoudiniMan HoudiniMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devil View Post
More PWA members is important, especially for timezones that other people can't get into contact with globals.

This has been a problem since I've played, is finding someone on in my timezone to help me with problems.
This problem has been drastically reduced with the support center enabling most problems to at least be acknowledged, if not handled, within 16 hours or so.

The biggest problem I've seen with getting a hold of somebody now is people who aren't aware of the support center itself.
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  #23  
Old 12-13-2006, 08:34 AM
HoudiniMan HoudiniMan is offline
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This is a draft. Unapproved and not enforced, to be submitted to the directors for approval before being acted on. This is simply to revise the rules before submission. This is also not a GraalOnline policy at this time.

Source: http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...ad.php?t=49824

---

Rules for ALL servers

These rules apply to all worlds regardless of popularity.

It is the manager’s responsibility to make sure these rules are followed, and if they are broken some punishments are:
-Being made Private
-Shut Down
-Disable playerworld for a set period of time
-Revoking free hosting (Classic worlds)
-Banning people who break rules
-Replace of manager
-Banning from being public for a period of time.
These need a lot of working-through, some of these require authority not available to the PWA and couldn't be actively managed.

Manager's Role:
-Responsible for enforcing these rules and making their staff aware of changes.
-Enforce and comply with the GraalOnline User Agreement (e.g. dealing with anyone who deserves it according to the agreement)
-Govern their staff, and must be aware of all RCs/rights given out.
-Responsible for server content, and should limit uploading to "live" areas of the world.

File Manager:
Do not upload anything into the file-manager that you do not have permission to upload. Additionally, no inappropriate or copyrighted material should be uploaded.

Do not use content that has been uploaded elsewhere on Graal without the consent of both the creator and the manager of the original world.

NO music files should be uploaded to the playerworlds file-manager. It is difficult to prove who created music so music should be hosted on a private web-server and played with the command "play". (e.g.:
play http://www.host.com/song.midi;)

Staff:
All staff positions should be have an exclusive purpose. For example, you do not need someone to upload heads when the manager or graphics admin can do this.

Staff should be given training on how to use any RC rights they have and the responsibilities of their job. If they don’t know how to use a certain thing, limit how they can use it until they learn. The manager is responsible for all staff's actions regardless of that staff member's experience.

Each staff member should have their rights given to them individually. Any rights given must be needed and fit their position.

Only managers should have level 4 RCs. The manager should be active to perform tasks that can't be done without level 4 rights. A second level 4 RC can be given to the highest positioned admin, but only if needed (e.g.: timezone conflicts).

No playerworld should have more than 3 level 4 RCs total. A third level 4 RC can be given to the Admin-Playerworld## or Admin-ClassicWorld account only.

No playerworld should have more than 3 level 3 RCs. For any task requiring level 3 rights a staff can ask a level 3 or 4 RC to do it.

All RCs should have an IP range defined to limit unauthorized access to the RC account. See Security.

Only managers are allowed to add RCs. The managers may also allow one other staff member to edit rights, if this person is trusted and their job role allows them such responsibility. E.g.: Assistant Manager

Staff should never PM or Mass Message offensive material. They should also not have offensive material in their profile.

Local Server Rules:
All playerworlds should a posted set of local rules for their world. These rules should comply with the GraalOnline agreement.

RCs:
RC should ONLY be given to those who need it.

For example, FAQ and Events staff do not need RC as they are in-game positions only. Duties such as adding/fixing events are the NAT's and LAT's responsibility. Adding new FAQ/ET members, as well as any staff tools like "boots", should be done by the manager.

Any RC in the "staff=" server-option should be an active staff member. Honorary RCs are forbidden.

Guests who help with temporary problems or projects should not be left in the staff list, nor with any rights in their account as they are often used to attack a playerworld.

Invisible and closed off playerworlds do not need staff such as FAQs or GPs and should not have any until they are visible. When they are visible as "Hosted" they should only have these staff if the playercount warrants it.

Security:
Only managers should have full rights RCs for security reasons.

Do not give out rights if they are not needed... If a staff member doesn’t use a right for their job, they don’t need the right.

Nobody other than the manager should have rw access to any important logs such as rclog.txt

NPCs should be used to substitute RC actions (e.g. warpto) where possible. These should be secure (e.g. account and guild checking).

NPCs should not be used to substitute RC rights if they can’t be made secure.

ALL RCs need an IP range set. This can be no less than two numbers. e.g:
12.34.*.*

Managers should limit the amount of people who have ‘rw’ (read & write) rights to "live" folders, the folders current downloadable levels are in. Management should transfer files into "live" folders from non-live staff folders after checking them.

NPCs:
NO NPC Should be abusive such as changing players names, changing players looks etc. IF you really need this then it should have security measures such as account and guild checking, and the NPC must log all users' actions.

All NPCs must be created for your world or you should have permission to use them.

Bans:
All bans must be for a clear reason. You can not just ban someone because you dislike them.

Players should be warned and go through some sort of punishment system before a ban, such as warning, then jail. Big offenses such as disruptive behavior affecting the whole playerworld do not need a warning first. However it is suggested you use the jail before a ban.

Players using trainers can by banned on first offense if there was obvious cheating. Messages from the server that "player is using cheat tool:" should be verified by staff in game whenever possible.

Bans comments should include the following: Reason, Account (if PCID ban), and the banning staff member. If there isn't enough information to verify a ban that is questioned, the player may be released.

Because bans are often done for incorrect or wrong reasons only people with level 3 or 4 RCs should be allowed to ban. This means that 5 people (MAX) should be able to ban.

Guilds:
Do not make guilds that mimic any special or global staff guilds (e.g.: GM, VIP)

Do not make local guilds that are the same as global guild names.

No guilds should be offensive, allow players to be in the staff list, or have copyrighted names.

Trial Accounts:
No playerworld under any circumstances should save trial account data.

Trial accounts are accounts that allow the user to see and test the game on their computer system. Graal does not allow trial accounts to gain items/stats easier than paid accounts.

Playerworld Websites:
If you link to your playerworlds website all content found within your website must fall within Graal's rules and there must be no offensive or illegal material. This includes links out of your website.

Reviving A Playerworld Project:
Any files uploaded into the file-manager becomes the sole property of GraalOnline. When a player works for a playerworld as a 'Staff' member all files given to the manager to upload, or uploaded themselves, becomes property of GraalOnline. Temporary usage rights (until shutdown of a playerworld) is given to the playerworld manager while the playerworld is online. This right of usage is terminated when the playerworld is shut down. If someone wants to use any of the files again (i.e.: Playerworld Revive Project) Graal and its representatives must be contacted before they can be uploaded again. To gain usage rights to any Playerworld previously online, the individual must contact Graal's representative and the last active manager(s) to gain permission and usage rights to the files of a shutdown Playerworld.

Any scripts with ‘NPC Made By ’ need separate permission for their usage. If any file, like a graphic, is being used elsewhere you also need permission from the creator and any playerworld using it. This also applies if the filename contains a player’s name: e.g. player_gfx1.png

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  #24  
Old 12-13-2006, 08:35 AM
HoudiniMan HoudiniMan is offline
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System Abuse:
NO NPC should be able to imitate an account name (e.g. *Accoutname)

NO NPC should interfere with or stop the automatic disconnection for not moving (e.g. an NPC that alters players X,Y,Z over and over)

NO one should abuse the Graal system (against its intended purpose), such as multiple disconnecting, warping or player attribute editing, on anyone.

Data Loss:
All data held within the File-Manager is there at the uploader's risk. GraalOnline can not take responsibility for any data loss. Managers should backup all files and logs frequently to avoid any problems that may occur due to data loss (accidental or otherwise).

GraalOnline reserves the right to make special-case amendments and additions to its rules and policies and the steps it takes concerning violation of these policies and rules. Rule amendments may occur when a potential violation will effect the general services of GraalOnline. Players are required to keep up-to-date with any changes to Graal policy concerning rules and gameplay by checking it frequently. To keep users aware of any amendments they will be posted in the GraalOnline Communication Center forums, under the section 'PlayerWorlds Main Forum'

---

Reminder: This draft is unofficial, not applicable, and not representative of GraalOnline.
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  #25  
Old 12-13-2006, 08:37 AM
HoudiniMan HoudiniMan is offline
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So far I've made mostly grammatical corrections, and only a few tweaks to bring the policies up to date with today's systems. i.e. "Third tab" is "Hosted tab", for bans you dont need to list a release date as this is automatic, etc.

Edit: Quadruple post FTW
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  #26  
Old 12-13-2006, 08:56 AM
Devil Devil is offline
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I like the rules, and things like that. They are simple to follow even for the most silly of people.

In regards to the support centre, that is all well and dandy having that there, I quite like using it and always get speedy responses. That is say, when there are actually people around to ANSWER for that actual subject I would be expressing my opinion about.

At the moment I can think of 2 people who answer them, yourself and Darlene, and sometimes Sam who wishes to butt into my tickets even after someone has replied to me with sufficient information.

Where is the rest of the player world admin help, you certainly don't want to, nor should you have to deal with 100 servers. Have you spoken to the directors to figure out a new plan on hiring? I'm sick of seeing (some) suckups getting jobs around here, or the people that play GK/Zone (whatever) server the most. It should be based on alot more other things than this.
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  #27  
Old 12-13-2006, 09:34 AM
Andy0687 Andy0687 is offline
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There is a lot i could say right now about the post you have made HoudiniMan but im afraid im getting a little tired and wouldnt be able to completely think through my ideas, ill just shoot a few of them out there and see what happens.

Quote:
-Responsible for server content, and should limit uploading to "live" areas of the world.
What does this even mean? "live" areas of the world, how do you even begin to determine something like that?

Quote:
Only managers should have level 4 RCs. The manager should be active to perform tasks that can't be done without level 4 rights. A second level 4 RC can be given to the highest positioned admin, but only if needed (e.g.: timezone conflicts).

No playerworld should have more than 3 level 4 RCs total. A third level 4 RC can be given to the Admin-Playerworld## or Admin-ClassicWorld account only.
This should be up to the playerworld Manager, not the PWA. There are various reasons for this. If a playerworld gets deleted, ban the person who deleted it, and reupload the content. The entirety of the situation takes longer on the global to ban the guy who did it, then it does to reupload the backup. Is that why this rule is trying to be pushed?

Im simply grasping at straws or something tonight but it seems you are pushing to make the job as easy as possible, i know you dont get paid but you are expected to deliver a service. Most people who are requesting that service pay for it. Granted Classic playrworlds are frozen, and recieve free time, but (Starting with Zodiac) have paid for awhile to be where they are.

I am going to draft up a bigger reply to this later, for the most part it seems like rather then helping the worlds and letting them have fun, this new layout is ment to govern and control them, and thats something I cant say I agree with. There should be limits yes, but the limits you are allowed to set should also be limited.

Let people make mistakes, it makes money.
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  #28  
Old 12-13-2006, 09:53 AM
smirt362 smirt362 is offline
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Why does any content uploaded on a Graal server automatically become Graal's property? It's like we're paying you so that you can use our material that is copyright to us the moment it is created.
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  #29  
Old 12-13-2006, 09:57 AM
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Live parts of the playerworld would most likely be parts that are open to the public, and players are always there, maybe?

smirt362 : This would be because alot of companies do the same thing, if they wish to make those rules, that is their business and if you agree to this by agreeing to the ToS, you must comply with this, or leave the game. It's pretty simple and has been around for years, no need in bringing it back up.
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  #30  
Old 12-13-2006, 10:03 AM
CheeToS2 CheeToS2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy0687 View Post
What does this even mean? "live" areas of the world, how do you even begin to determine something like that?
I'd say a live area is an area a normal player can access without the aid of an adminstrator.


Quote:
This should be up to the playerworld Manager, not the PWA. There are various reasons for this. If a playerworld gets deleted, ban the person who deleted it, and reupload the content. The entirety of the situation takes longer on the global to ban the guy who did it, then it does to reupload the backup. Is that why this rule is trying to be pushed?

Im simply grasping at straws or something tonight but it seems you are pushing to make the job as easy as possible, i know you dont get paid but you are expected to deliver a service. Most people who are requesting that service pay for it. Granted Classic playrworlds are frozen, and recieve free time, but (Starting with Zodiac) have paid for awhile to be where they are.

I am going to draft up a bigger reply to this later, for the most part it seems like rather then helping the worlds and letting them have fun, this new layout is ment to govern and control them, and thats something I cant say I agree with. There should be limits yes, but the limits you are allowed to set should also be limited.
It is a serious security issue to have lots of people with full rights. It's a rule in the IT world to never give anyone more rights than they need to complete their duties, and for good reason. If tons of people can do anything, it's only asking for trouble. Lots of people renting servers don't want to bother with managing their rights properly, and I've seen people get burned by it many times. I'd say limiting servers to 3 level 4 RCs is actually lenient.

Many servers also don't keep their own backups and rely on Stefan to provide them when needed. Stefan's pretty busy and it can take days to restore a server sometimes, which results in a lot of lost productivity and angry players.

Quote:
Let people make mistakes, it makes money.
Stefan doesn't charge for fixing problems
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