Classic: A chance to become 'Classic' again?

[shockedfrog]

Unfortunately, due to the forum's 10000 character restriction on posts, I can't post the whole content of this topic here - so instead, go to:
http://www.shockedfrog.com/classic.txt
which is a text file containing the proper contents of this topic. You might find it easier to read with word wrap on :) Please reply with your thoughts on what I've typed, and on what you believe makes Classic classic.

I guess they made it just one post a day? I suppose I can sort of edit-reply :)

maximus asinus: Valid points, but the first, that a player could enter an area too tough for them, well, that depends on the player's skills, not their stats. As for your second concern, well, that's where balance comes in - because all players can get all items, the fact that a newbie could get a 'laming weapon' would not matter, since the people they would use it against would also, if they were sensible, have that weapon too.

As for guilds, while I'm really trying to make guilds easier to make rather than harder, the point is to give guilds more of a purpose, and I agree with what you're saying in that way.

[maximus_asinus]

My reply is short and sweet:

I agree with you on a majority of these points but I have to disagree with you when you talk about quests. It was a great idea to prohibit people from jumping quests, as it was either too difficult for a person to complete with a low heart count, the item obtained would ruin other quests, making them easier, or the item obtained made it easier for 'laming'.

[edit] currently reading the full text [/edit]

About guilds, I think they should be restricted, as we see new guilds appear every day, and abandoned the next week for the latest fad. This response doesn't have to your guild opinion, but it maybe related, and I think it should be discussed and acted upon.

[matt8891]

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

My reply is short and sweet:

About guilds, I think they should be restricted, as we see new guilds appear every day, and abandoned the next week for the latest fad. This response doesn't have to your guild opinion, but it maybe related, and I think it should be discussed and acted upon.

Guilds are fine the way they are now as you've stated. If they were'nt hard to create new guilds would be made every day, and it would become harder for a guild to grow when most players are in other guilds.

[shockedfrog]

In Classic terms, there are only a few guilds that are still somewhat alive - Ventrue and Macabre are the only two names you really see often, plus the occasional person on a US, NBK or Baddies tag. Both Ventrue (in various guises - Ventrue Vampires, VV, etc.) and Macabre (as far as I know) were made during the easier period when making a guild just meant getting 10 p2p supporters. Less guilds doesn't mean more successful guilds - in fact, I feel that the more guilds there are, the more purpose each individual guild has, and the weaker guilds serve as a sort of food for the stronger guilds to grow on, so more guilds means more successful guilds. Survival of the leetest, basically.

[p2p_Sir_Link]

Originally Posted by shockedfrog

In Classic terms, there are only a few guilds that are still somewhat alive - Ventrue and Macabre are the only two names you really see often, plus the occasional person on a US, NBK or Baddies tag. Both Ventrue (in various guises - Ventrue Vampires, VV, etc.) and Macabre (as far as I know) were made during the easier period when making a guild just meant getting 10 p2p supporters. Less guilds doesn't mean more successful guilds - in fact, I feel that the more guilds there are, the more purpose each individual guild has, and the weaker guilds serve as a sort of food for the stronger guilds to grow on, so more guilds means more successful guilds. Survival of the leetest, basically.

I'm basically the only person on US anymore, except for Vince, and ocassionally Zippy.

[maximus_asinus]

Originally Posted by p2p_Sir_Link

I'm basically the only person on US anymore, except for Vince, and ocassionally Zippy.

don't make me snap your neck.

And directed at shockedfrog:
There is a great deal of guilds, if you played classic frequently, you'd notice.
There is smaller guilds who are dedicated to their guilds, limiting other guilds from growing, so we have several small guilds and maybe two bigger guilds.

If they limited guilds and deleted others, it would give meaning back to the guild process, and having a guild or being in a guild would encourage a person to fight for it.

[p2p_Sir_Link]

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

don't make me snap your neck.

You quit fool. lol.

[maximus_asinus]

Originally Posted by p2p_Sir_Link

You quit fool. lol.

I quit Classic, there is a difference.

[shockedfrog]

First, whether a guild is big or small, it doesn't matter. As long as a guild of any size has members who believe it has a good reason to exist, it's good. There are many reasons for guilds to exist, and many of these reasons allow guilds to co-exist without restricting growth - indeed, many people join multiple guilds. In an event where guilds conflict in such a way that restricts growth, then it's up to the players, not the system, to fix the problem. How can they fix the problem? Wars and alliances! And yes, wars and alliances can make the server 'live' again, and in turn, help attract new players, meaning new guilds and more growth for existing guilds which are well run.

The problem, however, is that the classic community has all huddled together, and none of us are now able to hate someone enough to start a war against them, or even be remotely competitive without saying 'I love you really' afterwards. This is why we need to attract new players, and that doesn't neccessarily mean attracting players from other servers - it can mean attracting those who are truly new to Graal. This is why I recommend the Classic style - it's not just about nostalgia, it's about making a style which goes back to the "online action-adventure with a level editor" (if you're one of the crazy oldbies - 98/99 types - then replace 'action-adventure' with 'Zelda clone') roots that attracted a lot of players to the game in the first place, rather than trying to be too many things and ending up being nothing in particular. I believe that style can attract players again, and with more players, it becomes easier to bring guilds to life again, and if guilds do come back to life, Classic will have a community element that will appeal to all Graal players, and not just the dedicated Classic residents.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by shockedfrog

with 'Zelda clone') roots that attracted a lot of players to the game in the first place, rather than trying to be too many things and ending up being nothing in particular.

I agree with you so much man, the graal online staff dont realize that graal itself is only popular because it has a zelda style to it. Apart from Zone, Graal itself is nothing but uglyness.

[shockedfrog]

Although I'm not really a shooter fan, Zone's style of gameplay shows a way to use Graal's tools to good effect, without pretending to be a pure 'Graal' world. If the staff of the classic Graal game making groups such as Jedi Knights and Bravo Productions still played, I think Zone would be the one thing in modern Graal they'd respect.

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by shockedfrog

and none of us are now able to hate someone enough to start a war against them, or even be remotely competitive without saying 'I love you really' afterwards

Speak for yourself.

[jahngod]

I think you have a lot of good ideas/points shockedfrog.

I especially agree about Classic attracting new players with the 'Zelda clone' appeal it used to have, which is a totally different audience to all this new stuff kingdoms/3d lol.

But I have to say, I would also like to see Classic classic again for nostaglia reasons. But who wouldn't.

As regarding the story - I think it is imperative to remain the imagine of level designers, rather than a global story

[Methril]

The problem I see, however, is that modern scripting is too complicated because it generally relies on serverside coding, and since the majority of players don't have a server, most players now find it difficult to join the scripting community.

Yes, and then some people get angry at you for asking questions about it. It's like they don't want you to know because it would make their uber-intelligence club less valuable or something.

you know who I am talking about.

[syltburk]

god.. how many times do u have to say it..

Classic will never be the same if it doesn't come 300-400 players online

Classic will never be the same if guilds isn't alive, for REAL...