Shading advice - Page 2

DustyPorViva · #16 03-11-2012, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geneticfrog

it was acutally a good example of pillow shading but this guy dusti always has something negetive to say no matter what you post apparantly.

What I posted was not negative, and this is the root of what the hell is wrong with you posting. You misinterpret logic and reason as someone being "negative" or that it's something personal. I disagreed with your post, but that doesn't mean it's negative until you make it out to be. Then things go downhill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by geneticfrog

just beacause the pillow shading wasnt applied EXACTLY HOW DUSTI SAIS to all surfaces doesnt mean its not pillow shaded on some surfaces that it was applied to...... -_-

Except it's not pillowshading and that absolutely nothing is wrong with Crow's edit. In fact it has the same exact shading as mines except it has more buffer shades.

Quote:

Originally Posted by geneticfrog

"'pillow shading', a great evil spoken of by pixel artists in hushed tones. It is the work of the devil, and appears to assume a single point light source hanging directly between us and our object. "

since there was no brightness ontop of the hat you showed us. yet it was bright infront of the hat. i can only assume the light source was applied as a pillowshading light source.

No, that is NOT what pillowshading is. Like I said before, a lightsouce between the viewer and the object CAN create pillowshading, but not always. It's generally frowned upon to use that lightsource because it's a poor choice and often does create pillow shading, but that is not what pillowshading actually is. When you choose a lightsource between the viewer and a sphere it creates pillowshading because you light the sphere from the center outwards. However if you were to choose this same lightsource with an isometric cube it would not create pillowshading because the lightsource does not agree with the outline and volume of the cube. Not that Crow's hat uses this lightsource at all.

This is where things differ, and why pillowshading is actually when an artist is unfamiliar with volume and lets their shading follow the outline of an object rather than actually using any lightsource at all.

geneticfrog · #17 03-11-2012, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

What I posted was not negative, and this is the root of what the hell is wrong with you posting. You misinterpret logic and reason as someone being "negative" or that it's something personal. I disagreed with your post, but that doesn't mean it's negative until you make it out to be. Then things go downhill.

Except it's not pillowshading and that absolutely nothing is wrong with Crow's edit. In fact it has the same exact shading as mines except it has more buffer shades.

acutally the front of the hat was bright and had a light source.

the rim had a second light source from a seperate area.

the top of the hat was dark still and thus the light source was in between you and the object.

a form of pillow shading in my book.

but again you are never right when dusti is around.( here comes another giant pile of text)

Crow · #18 03-11-2012, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geneticfrog

acutally the front of the hat was bright and had a light source.

the rim had a second light source from a seperate area.

the top of the hat was dark still and thus the light source was in between you and the object.

a form of pillow shading in my book.

but again you are never right when dusti is around.

The rim is lit from the exact same light source as the cylindric part of the hat, just not as drastically. The top is lit up as well, again, not as drastically. I overdid my highlights and didn't use bright enough tones on both the rim and the top part. That still doesn't make it pillow shading, and I don't even feel bad about it, because I'm not a graphics guy; I'm a coder.

I actually feel good about it, because I know more about graphics than you do, and it shows. Hooray!

DustyPorViva · #19 03-11-2012, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geneticfrog

acutally the front of the hat was bright and had a light source.

the rim had a second light source from a seperate area.

the top of the hat was dark still and thus the light source was in between you and the object.

a form of pillow shading in my book.

but again you are never right when dusti is around.

Just because the front of the hat is lighter than the top does not mean that it the lightsource is coming from directly in front. This is where you're failing at interpreting lightsources. It simply means that the lightsource is SOMEWHERE below the 90degree mark. Also the highlight is slightly to the right of the the tophat.

A gate I made for iClassic:

Would you call that pillowshading? Because the front of the gate is lighter than the top.

geneticfrog · #20 03-11-2012, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crow

The rim is lit from the exact same light source as the cylindric part of the hat, just not as drastically. The top is lit up as well, again, not as drastically. I overdid my highlights and didn't use bright enough tones on both the rim and the top part. That still doesn't make it pillow shading, and I don't even feel bad about it, because I'm not a graphics guy; I'm a coder.

I actually feel good about it, because I know more about graphics than you do, and it shows. Hooray!

the bright spot o the rim is slightly to the left= the light source is slighly to the left.

the middle part is fully centred = light source is DIRECTLY between you and the object.

the top was dark = tells me theres no source of light in the sky above the hat.

but w/e floats your boat.

salesman · #21 03-11-2012, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geneticfrog

it was acutally a good example of pillow shading but this guy dusti always has something negetive to say no matter what you post apparantly.

just beacause the pillow shading wasnt applied EXACTLY HOW DUSTI SAIS to all surfaces doesnt mean its not pillow shaded on some surfaces that it was applied to...... -_-

Just because someone doesn't share your viewpoint doesn't mean they are being negative. Don't take everything so personally. If you opened up your mind a little bit, you might actually learn something from him.

Crow · #22 03-11-2012, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geneticfrog

the middle part is fully centred

Looks like you are also half blind.

geneticfrog · #23 03-11-2012, 01:24 AM

LOL i was looking at emeras hat -_-....(got back from my friends.. lots of alcohol...) he def has two light sources...

but either way crows light source is still really low its like pointing a flash light at it.

generally for graal the sun is the main source of light in the sky or even indoors the light is still on the cieling so the top fo the hat would need to be brighter.

Crow · #24 03-11-2012, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geneticfrog

generally for graal

Three words that don't go into a sentence when it comes to graphics. Graal graphics are all over the place anyway.

geneticfrog · #25 03-11-2012, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crow

Three words that don't go into a sentence when it comes to graphics. Graal graphics are all over the place anyway.

you can do what ever you want.

but in my book the light source is based on the tileset mainly. even at that i still like making my light source slightly to the right, in the sky.(sun)

I find it promotes a better look in the GFX.

Crow · #26 03-11-2012, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geneticfrog

you can do what ever you want.

Exactly. And the position of my light source won't ever magically turn my shading into pillow shading.

geneticfrog · #27 03-11-2012, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crow

Exactly. And the position of my light source won't ever magically turn my shading into pillow shading.

the source is still directly infront of you and the object.

this is frowned uppon in the gfx world. other then for special cases of course.

DustyPorViva · #28 03-11-2012, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geneticfrog

you can do what ever you want.

but in my book the light source is based on the tileset mainly. even at that i still like making my light source slightly to the right. (the sun)

The lightsource of pics1 actually is not to the left nor right. It's directly above, and somewhat to the front of the world. This is derived from LttP. This is why shadows from the cliffs are only cast from behind the cliffs, and not to the side.

There are some abnormalities, like houses casting shadows to the right(implying a lightsource from the left), but even those same houses the roofs are lighter in the front than the sides(implying a top-front lightsource). This is all applicable to pics1 and Graal as well, but none of the tileset or default graphics imply a lightsource from the RIGHT.

Also, since Zelda/Graal is a 3/4th perspective(viewing the world from 45degrees up) this would mean that the lightsource is between the viewer and the world

Crow · #29 03-11-2012, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geneticfrog

this is frowned uppon in the gfx world

Whatever "gfx world" you're living in, I don't want to be there.

geneticfrog · #30 03-11-2012, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

The lightsource of pics1 actually is not to the left nor right. It's directly above, and somewhat to the front of the world. This is derived from LttP. This is why shadows from the cliffs are only cast from behind the cliffs, and not to the side.

There are some abnormalities, like houses casting shadows to the right(implying a lightsource from the left), but even those same houses the roofs are lighter in the front than the sides(implying a top-front lightsource). This is all applicable to pics1 and Graal as well, but none of the tileset or default graphics imply a lightsource from the RIGHT.

Also, since Zelda/Graal is a 3/4th perspective(viewing the world from 45degrees up) this would mean that the lightsource is between the viewer and the world

then again if the LAT put shadows on both sides of the house and the back too it wouldn' be so abnormal. (if the tileset allows)

also the heads on graal the standard ones all the side views are look directly at the head instead of 45 degrees up. there are tons of hats that also show this.

while the back and the front generally are up the sky at 45.

BUT as a whole we can agree the sun is USUALLY the main light source and its in the sky if no light sources are defined before hand.