Getting players to use useless items. (Maps)

[Spiker]

So, I've been thinking about this for awhile now and I really think this would work. I love the idea of giving craft-able items a large list of items that need to be collected because it gives players things to do and makes them work for their items, which in my mind, gives the player something to do, and in turn raises the player count.

Maps are never used, even the Brutals aren't used anymore. Why not put a chest in all the treasure maps that give you items that can not be found anywhere else, and it would force players to go through those maps in order to obtain the items for the craftables. I'm not talking 2 or 3 items, I'm talking 75 - 100 of them. It would give players something to do, and it would allow players to craft gear with decent stats, since they would be worth the time spent collecting items as well as get rid of some basically useless items in the game (Maps) that nobody uses anymore.

Another idea is that the person collects items that can't be traded, but can only be used on your account. You can sell them and display them, but they can not be traded, so it would allow players to work more instead of just purchasing the items to craft the gear.

[Supaman771]

Adventurers points or something stupid like that.

Give them points for doing different things:
Completing a Quest? +2 Points
Crypt? +10 points
Easy Map +1, Intermediate/w.e +2, Hard +3, Immense +4, Brutal +5, Deadly +10
Clearing a haunted house room +1
Other things.... +#

These are all (or should be) existing completion points in their respective coding so shouldn't be hard to add a line to each thing to add points to the player.

They could be another thing to collect/level/farm/show off.. and in the end they could be used to craft some 'Adventurers' set of gear that looks badassly awesome endgame trollage & can't be traded (must be collected/completed on your own). Or you could just convert them to NC I don't care.

Point is, you don't even have to create anything... just adding a player attribute for Adv. Pts. (AP) could get these idiots to run around the server for hours/days/weeks/11 more years. Which is the goal.

[Spiker]

Originally Posted by Supaman771

Adventurers points or something stupid like that.

Give them points for doing different things:
Completing a Quest? +2 Points
Crypt? +10 points
Easy Map +1, Intermediate/w.e +2, Hard +3, Immense +4, Brutal +5, Deadly +10
Clearing a haunted house room +1
Other things.... +#

These are all (or should be) existing completion points in their respective coding so shouldn't be hard to add a line to each thing to add points to the player.

They could be another thing to collect/level/farm/show off.. and in the end they could be used to craft some 'Adventurers' set of gear that looks badassly awesome endgame trollage & can't be traded (must be collected/completed on your own). Or you could just convert them to NC I don't care.

Point is, you don't even have to create anything... just adding a player attribute for Adv. Pts. (AP) could get these idiots to run around the server for hours/days/weeks/11 more years. Which is the goal.

I love the idea, especially the way you put it. xD

I agree with the Adventurer's points because most items on the game are actually already hoarded to the max. I have at least 10,000 of each monster part in the game, and I'm sure others do too. These point could be used to make some gear or do some of the same things as Nihil Coin (Not items. Maybe god switching, House Repair for a week, things like that). It would definitely give these 'idiots' something to do.

I think GK has become more of an item game rather than an experience. There needs to be something to increase the fun of the game, and give players something to look forward to. How many people sit idle in traded simply because there isn't anything decent to work towards on GK. Yeah, grinding Exp, but who hasn't done that for hours and hours for months on end? We need something new to add to the experience, and give players a reason to play TOGETHER.

[Stephen]

I anticipate the Brutals and other maps are still viable experience options for low level players. Even if that is not true, I don't see the value in adding an extra layer of complexity -- or forcing players to do something they don't like. In fact, I anticipate it would reduce the player count given a bigger audience (i.e., facebook).

Let me make sure I understand correctly; you're suggesting we force players to invest their time in order to utilize simplistic crafting which is currently available and open to all players?

If that's the case then Rogue's suggestion is much worse - if they acquire resources (which Spiker seems to be suggesting) then at the least a subset of players could grind these items and sell the resources because they're practically required by everyone. This is an O.K. suggestion.

However, in Rogue's suggestion it is required for everyone because they need "Adventurer Points" (how does this apply to any reality? Do I need to fix 100 cars before I can buy spark plugs?)

[Spiker]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I anticipate the Brutals and other maps are still viable experience options for low level players. Even if that is not true, I don't see the value in adding an extra layer of complexity -- or forcing players to do something they don't like. In fact, I anticipate it would reduce the player count given a bigger audience (i.e., facebook).

First off, it's not a viable option for experience. The amount of experience you get from Brutals or other maps can be obtained in Xmas dungeon in literally 15 minutes. Once you get to a certain point, the other maps are pretty much useless, and with the amount of people that do play that help new players just tell them maps aren't a viable option for Exp, since you could party with other players and gain levels super fast. The way to fix this would be to block out lower level players from the xmas dungeon, since it is just a xmas flood, which can ruin the fun in game play when you just grind over and over and over at the exact same spot. Literally no other way on Graal Kingdoms is useful to gain levels once you hit ~25 levels.

Originally Posted by Stephen

Let me make sure I understand correctly; you're suggesting we force players to invest their time in order to utilize simplistic crafting which is currently available and open to all players?

What I am saying is that we get players to start doing something in the mean time instead of being bored and going to a different server and/or a different game. These things aren't forced, they can be for fun. Like the Nihil Shop, but more of trophies for stuff.

Originally Posted by Stephen

If that's the case then Rogue's suggestion is much worse - if they acquire resources (which Spiker seems to be suggesting) then at the least a subset of players could grind these items and sell the resources because they're practically required by everyone. This is an O.K. suggestion.

Like I said, things can obviously change, these are just ideas.

Originally Posted by Stephen

However, in Rogue's suggestion it is required for everyone because they need "Adventurer Points" (how does this apply to any reality? Do I need to fix 100 cars before I can buy spark plugs?)

Completing a dungeon gives you literally nothing. You get like 15 plat for brutals and such. Why not give something else, like with the deadly maps how they have a chest. Why not give a chest at the end of EVERY map, the contents of the chest can vary on the map difficulty as well as the amount of "Adventurer's Points" you have. If we are speaking of reality, how can we cast fire bolts from out wands and have swords that are made of fire. Look at Zodiac for instance, they have the "levels" after you max out your character. There needs to be SOMETHING that keeps players busy, even if it is before max level.

I remember hearing about a achievement like system that was in the works, where did this go? Is this still happening? Any news on it?

I think there should be high priced items that players can shoot for. Every single thing on Graal Kingdoms can be crafted in a matter of hours. Why not make some craftables have ingredients easy to obtain, but tough to obtain the amount to craft. For instances, the Bear Hat. 250 cloth is a decent amount to obtain and it keeps you busy for awhile. I love this aspect and I believe it should be continued.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Spiker

I remember hearing about a achievement like system that was in the works, where did this go?

This is part of iGK, though I expect it could be ported to GK.

Originally Posted by Spiker

Why not make some craftables have ingredients easy to obtain, but tough to obtain the amount to craft.

Yes, it would be possible to give rewards at the end of standard maps -- or in the ice cavern instead. I'm not opposed to the suggestion of rewards at the end of the maps. Several modifications have been made to improve the game-based market and this could be an addition.

I'm more focused on new players and less on old players. These maps are still viable options for new players, including the xmas dungeons. I'm opposed to restricting current aspects of the game in order to promote busy work.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Yes, it would be possible to give rewards at the end of standard maps -- or in the ice cavern instead. I'm not opposed to the suggestion of rewards at the end of the maps. Several modifications have been made to improve the game-based market and this could be an addition.

It would be really nice to add chest rewards to the end of lower-level maps, and possibly re-structure which enemies are spawned in which maps, because the Ice Cavern dungeon includes almost everything (save for bigworms and a few other things) and made the lower level maps totally pointless to run.

Maps used to act sort of like keys to open a dungeon temporarily, and so the rewards used to be more valuable as well. With everything easy to access through the Ice Cavern now instead, everything has become much easier to craft, and a lot of craftables have shown up in chests, making crafting kind of pointless to begin with when luck can produce the same results.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Draenin

the Ice Cavern dungeon includes almost everything (save for bigworms and a few other things)

This is why I believe players who are too weak to fight the strongest monsters will still use regular maps. Yes, I think it's fine to add rewards to regular maps.

[Dinji_Jinto]

I actually collected a bunch of low-level maps and was doing them just because I was bored. But it would be nice to maybe get a little bit more out of it. The plat reward is a little on the low side.

[shrimps]

Since I started playing GK I never did any other maps other than level 3s (because all the t-rex and devils) and immense, then brutals when they came out. There was no point in doing 1,2,4s when you could just set yourself up in the dungeon and kill everything.

[Supaman771]

Originally Posted by shrimps

Since I started playing GK I never did any other maps other than level 3s (because all the t-rex and devils) and immense, then brutals when they came out. There was no point in doing 1,2,4s when you could just set yourself up in the dungeon and kill everything.

Yeah..
The T-Rexes in the main dungeon, and HHE with skeletons always were better than level 1-3 maps cause you could Idle farm them in many ways without running around the map between maps. Once evilbomies and stuff got added to the kingdom dungeons years ago, Samurai dungeon idling made anything below brutal obsolete.

Egg dungeons were easy exp for awhile, but it was only once a year and you couldn't max all your stats in one go... Zombies and the Crypt trumped Samurai dungeon eventually, and even made brutals worthless short of singing to bigworms.

Now there's the ice dungeon and reapers which are both much better than zombies even, to the point where a player can reach 107 phys (easiest one to level) in a matter of 2-3 days if they know the spawn timers. With some tricks and whatnot, we were able to even idle-kill reapers to max out every stat short of alchemy to 107 in just a few days as-well.

Nowadays anything but a Deadly map is worth no more than the #plat the npc pays for it honestly.

[scriptless]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I anticipate the Brutals and other maps are still viable experience options for low level players.

This is true but when is the last time you seen a low level leveling on their own? Players party level noobs because they keep asking for help leveling. It's kinda a catch 22.. add stuff for the lower levels and the higher levels complain.. add stuff for the higher levels and the lower levels get a free ride. Alot of people just prefer to skip or grind thru the game to get to end-game status. But end-game status on gk is retirement. There is even a max out thread. Then those players don't get to enjoy new leveling areas only items.. and items make crummy updates. Theres no way to win.

A few things mentioned here about points would be neat. However I believe at one point there was an achievement system in the planning. Which this would have been similar to. EX: earning an achievement like treasure hunter being so many maps.. or master treasure hunter to signify you completed more maps. That would be cool and probably a better approach then a separate system if something is still being planned for achievements.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Supaman771

Now there's the ice dungeon and reapers which are both much better than zombies even, to the point where a player can reach 107 phys (easiest one to level) in a matter of 2-3 days if they know the spawn timers. With some tricks and whatnot, we were able to even idle-kill reapers to max out every stat short of alchemy to 107 in just a few days as-well.

To me, this is a serious problem. It shouldn't be possible to max out a character in 2-3 days on any game, unless it's considered disposable.

[Raelyn]

Originally Posted by Stephen

This is why I believe players who are too weak to fight the strongest monsters will still use regular maps. Yes, I think it's fine to add rewards to regular maps.

No, players who are too weak to fight the strongest monster are just standing around in the ice cavern entrance, begging every higher level player than enters to join a party with them...

I never see any other players doing treasure maps, or even in the haunted houses, or the t-rex rooms of the main dungeon. Even the newest players are usually found pan-handling for a "leveling partner".

[Conqueror]

Originally Posted by Stephen

To me, this is a serious problem. It shouldn't be possible to max out a character in 2-3 days on any game, unless it's considered disposable.

Given the right tools, with the amount of exp that vamps currently give. Someone could easily max out every skill with a buddy in 35-40 hours of non-stop grinding. It's a mess.

But, if this is changed in any form-- it's still a mess, since there's been so many players who've been able to take advantage of this. If gaining experience were to become drastically harder, we've then built a gap between old players who've become God-like, and new players who'll never have the chance to take advantage of good exp opportunities.

Not to say we haven't already built a gap to begin with. Everything from granting massive amounts of exp to giving items amazing stats have brought us to where we are today.

People who come to GK want to be able to compete. Sure, most games have an amount of time where a player must level up for a few weeks before they're able to do so, and that's fine. But in order to compete here, it's really no easy task. And not to say it's supposed to be easy-- but it shouldn't be as overwhelming as it is for something as simple as "competing".

A decade ago the only thing you needed to compete was: a pair of lucky boots, a glok belt, dual RoCs/RoTs/RoS', an ac+2 amulet, a bomy helm, a shiny shield and a flaming sword. Everyone was level 1-40, and got their exp from Lord Hunting and lvl 3 maps. If you had 4.0 speed you were probably a hax0r.

It was simple, fun, and anyone who joined could be competing against the rest after a month tops.

I've always believed a good hard reset is what we need. Not the only thing we need, but a start. I'd also say remove all the amazing exp opportunities. The 107 mental/agility tricks. The crazy dungeons. Maybe even brutal maps. To the point where 107 of anything is only a dream.

If not a reset, then something else. A lvl cap of 40? Anything to bridge the gap between the old and the new.