GK Fails

[Ziro_of_the_Turks]

Originally Posted by Googi

You don't just go "hay guys let's reset and see if we get lucky." You look at the nature of the server and what state it was in when it was reset. I should warn you in advance (since you've complained about this kind of thing) that this post is going to be long and have a lot of "unnecessary information" because I want everybody, and not just you, to understand the differences between 2K2 and Zodiac.

Zodiac breaks one of the fundamental rules of building a server that's successful in the long run. The rule that the player must never be allowed to "beat the game". Zodiac allows players to reach the point at which training becomes obsolete (we'll call it "maximum level" even though I'm aware that term isn't entirely accurate) way too easily. As a result, Zodiac players are "allowed" to stop training while they're still willing to train (even though they probably don't "want" to) and the server pretty much has to reset just to reset just so that it can "access" the remaining willingness of the players to train. 2K2 never allows the player to reach the maximum level so it doesn't have this problem (remember that maximum level means the point where training becomes obsolete, not just having a base level of 110).

The best way to fully illustrate how this works is with a graph.



Y-axis: Willingness of the player to train
X-axis: How much the player has trained
Orange Line: Willingness of the player to train
Red Line: Training Willingness Threshold - the player is no longer willing to train when willingness to train drops below this point.
Grey Line: Amount of training required to reach maximum level on Zodiac.
Gold Line: Amount of training required to reach maximum level on 2K2.
Point A: Point at which player stops training because he has reached maximum level.
Point B: Point at which player stops training because he is unwilling to train even though he hasn't reached maximum level.

A truly efficient server (like 2K2 and not Zodiac) pushes the players to point B by having the amount of training required to reach the maximum level be to the right of point B for every single player. Since Zodiac is not a truly efficient server, it has to reset in order to push the players to point B. (Zodiac's staff probably aren't smart enough to fully realize this, they were just lucky that this happens to be the nature of their server and thus a reset wasn't damaging).

Of course, in reality, the orange line isn't a perfectly straight downward sloping line. A player's willingness to train can be increased by various factors (such as willingness to train "regenerating" over periods of time when the player doesn't train), but in the long run a straight downward sloping line pretty much matches reality.

Delteria, however, I don't know jack about.

Thanks for that graph. It's pretty funny- I don't think you had to do all that to explain it all, and I think it could have been explained in a much simpler way (or maybe it just seems easy once u understand it). But in all- nice presentation

[Gothika]

Originally Posted by Ziro_of_the_Turks

Thanks for that graph. It's pretty funny- I don't think you had to do all that to explain it all, and I think it could have been explained in a much simpler way (or maybe it just seems easy once u understand it). But in all- nice presentation

Yeah, and Googi does prove a good point. That once people on Zodiac reach level 50 (I think thats the max level) They have nothing left to do but wait for a nation to attack there forts, or vice versa.

[Tigairius]

No, no and NO. GK can NOT become classic. If GK becomes classic, some ***** will get management, make it too complicated, just like all of the other crappy graal servers, hire a bunch of corrupt idiots, and chase all of the cool people away, THEN more people like Ravenblade would play GK, and that would just not be fun at all.

[NightmareNight]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

No, no and NO. GK can NOT become classic. If GK becomes classic, some ***** will get management, make it too complicated, just like all of the other crappy graal servers, hire a bunch of corrupt idiots, and chase all of the cool people away, THEN more people like Ravenblade would play GK, and that would just not be fun at all.

i.e. Era.

[Darklux]

The current problem afaik is, that only Stefan and Björn can transfer stuff of debug to gk.

Another is, that this mudlib stuff of gk seems to be very complicated and very instable, I still renember that the npcserver on debug was constantly broken or something
+ I bet its hard to program.

[Stromstedt]

Originally Posted by Darklux

The current problem afaik is, that only Stefan and Björn can transfer stuff of debug to gk.

This is good because it prevents corruption and they ALWAYS upload things when it is needed or when something is completed so that isn't a problem. When kingdom leaders want something uploaded, they can push it to be uploaded. You just have to have enough people willing to support your ideas, etc. I have made stuff and in the same day I had it uploaded onto GK. That's not really an issue.

Another is, that this mudlib stuff of gk seems to be very complicated and very instable, I still renember that the npcserver on debug was constantly broken or something
+ I bet its hard to program.

It's not very complicated really... Pretty simple, you must not know much about developmental work. Also, the reason why the npc server is down a lot because the server is a "debug" server. The entire purpose of a debug server is to test scripts and levels so that they are more stable on the actual server.

[pooper200000]

Why dont' they just circle the kingdom leadership daily until sam gets tired of doing it and kills gk?

[Gothika]

Originally Posted by Stromstedt

This is good because it prevents corruption and they ALWAYS upload things when it is needed or when something is completed so that isn't a problem. When kingdom leaders want something uploaded, they can push it to be uploaded. You just have to have enough people willing to support your ideas, etc. I have made stuff and in the same day I had it uploaded onto GK. That's not really an issue.

Not totally true. Sometimes it takes a couple of days. But yeah, it gets uploaded.

[Gambet]

Zodiac is not even close to being up to par with Gold-server standards, and will most likely never be, because Yen's systems are way too limited.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Googi

stuffs.

Nice and all but just some small points...

Zodiac breaks one of the fundamental rules of building a server that's successful in the long run. The rule that the player must never be allowed to "beat the game".

You realize every server but Zone and Valikorlia have this? When you do all the quests on a server, win all the event prizes, is it not technically then "beat"?

2K2 never allows the player to reach the maximum level so it doesn't have this problem (remember that maximum level means the point where training becomes obsolete, not just having a base level of 110).

Can you elaborate here? The way I see it 110 IS the max level...or are there other stats which can keep going up while you train?

[Gothika]

Originally Posted by Gerami

Can you elaborate here? The way I see it 110 IS the max level...or are there other stats which can keep going up while you train?

Yeah, level 110 is the max level. But to truely "beat" the game you'd need to get level 107 in all the skills aswell. Which is also, pretty much impossible.
But I'm sure your already aware of this.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Gerami

You realize every server but Zone and Valikorlia have this? When you do all the quests on a server, win all the event prizes, is it not technically then "beat"?

Depends on the server structure. But yes, most servers probably do allow the player to "beat the game". This, however, is a bad thing.

Originally Posted by Gerami

Can you elaborate here? The way I see it 110 IS the max level...or are there other stats which can keep going up while you train?

110 is the max base level, but base level only really gives you HP and better armowr enchanting abilities. Each level "type" (which often give more benefits than base level) can still be raised to level 107 even after base level 110 has been reached (though there isn't much of a point in doing so outside of mental, magic, physical and wisdom). Needless to say, no player has ever reached level 107 in all four of those areas, and the only way players have ever gotten to level 107 in magic, physical or wisdom is the party levelling bug.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Googi

Depends on the server structure. But yes, most servers probably do allow the player to "beat the game". This, however, is a bad thing.

Then why are they so successful? Why has UN been on the top for so long?

110 is the max base level, but base level only really gives you HP and better armour enchanting abilities. Each level "type" (which often give more benefits than base level) can still be raised to level 107 even afver base level 110 has been reached (though there isn't much of a point in doing so outside of mental, magic, physical and wisdom). Needless to say, no player has ever reached level 107 in all four of those areas, and the only way players have ever gotten to level 107 in magic, physical or wisdom is the party levelling bug.

Ah ok. Thanks.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Gerami

Then why are they so successful? Why has UN been on the top for so long?

I don't know enough about UN to know whether or not it allows players to "beat the game" (isn't it a PK server like Zone?) Either way, you can compensate for allowing the player to "beat the game" by building a community or being able to bring in new players at a fast enough rate to replace the old players leaving, but regardless of how high you can get your playercount while allowing the player to beat the game, you would be able to get it far higher if you didn't allow him to.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Googi

I don't know enough about UN to know whether or not it allows players to "beat the game" (isn't it a PK server like Zone?)

You quest for hearts/stronger shield/stronger sword. No one really PKs much on UN I think. The spar room is good and all but doesn't represent the majority of the server one bit.

Either way, you can compensate for allowing the player to "beat the game" by building a community or being able to bring in new players at a fast enough rate to replace the old players leaving, but regardless of how high you can get your playercount while allowing the player to beat the game, you would be able to get it far higher if you didn't allow him to.

That's nice and all but since you apparently have answers for everything, how would you go about fixing GK?