About the forums, payment, etc

protagonist · #1 03-29-2006, 06:19 AM

At the moment, forums are going under a major restructuring. Since some new rules have really changed how we use the forums, does our forum time get frozen until we have the new NGRT?

Because honestly, I paid for my account because I wanted forums, and I'm sure many others did too. Well, now the forums I[we] paid for are not what I[we] wanted because they were changed. I don't want my money back, I just don't want to have to pay with the time I bought while I am unable to use the forums in the way that I was originally allowed to use them.

It seems fair to ask that until the new NGRT is in operation, that we do not have to pay for forums which we can not really post much in. It is like paying for a box of cake, but being punished if you eat it.

konidias · #2 03-29-2006, 01:18 PM

Better prepare your flame proof suit.

1. You didn't pay to use these forums in a particular way. You paid to access graal servers, which also includes paying to ACCESS these forums. How (and if) you're allowed to post from there on out is up to Cyberjoueurs.

2. When you pay for cake it's yours. You own the cake. You do not own the forums, you simply pay for access to it. It's nothing like buying an item that you own and can do whatever you want with.

It's not fair at all to ask for free forum time. It's selfish.

Spark910 · #3 03-29-2006, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by konidias

Better prepare your flame proof suit.

1. You didn't pay to use these forums in a particular way. You paid to access graal servers, which also includes paying to ACCESS these forums. How (and if) you're allowed to post from there on out is up to Cyberjoueurs.

2. When you pay for cake it's yours. You own the cake. You do not own the forums, you simply pay for access to it. It's nothing like buying an item that you own and can do whatever you want with.

It's not fair at all to ask for free forum time. It's selfish.

3. Cyberjoueurs reserves the right to alter rules and agreements as it sees fit. The majority of service providers alter their rules and terms of conditions, and a lot of people who pay for services, including games, are not under the original agreement they signed up for. But, you are bound to the new agreement. Other service providers do not provide free access/compensation for such minor alterations in terms and agreements. It is my understanding Cyberjoueurs does not intend to either.

Darlene159 · #4 03-29-2006, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by protagonist

At the moment, forums are going under a major restructuring.

Major?
A couple of rules were added, and plans to move the NGRT to the private forum are in the works. I wouldn't call that "major restructuring"

Anyway, Konidias, and Spark summed it up nicely

protagonist · #5 03-29-2006, 03:35 PM

Just because their ToS says they can doesn't mean it's ethical.

Spark910 · #6 03-29-2006, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by protagonist

Just because their ToS says they can doesn't mean it's ethical.

I'd be hard stretched to say that such minor changes are unethical. The major functionality of the boards still exists. Access hasn't been changed. The only real alteration in the rules that will cause the most change is the linking rule, but hopefully this forum will be up soon.

CidNight1142 · #7 03-29-2006, 06:34 PM

My big question: How long does it really take to open this new forum? Its been a week since this all started yet and we've seen no progress whatsoever. Is it really that challenging to add a forum?

Spark910 · #8 03-29-2006, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CidNight1142

My big question: How long does it really take to open this new forum? Its been a week since this all started yet and we've seen no progress whatsoever. Is it really that challenging to add a forum?

Just spoke to Stefan, as I offered to make it - to speed up the process, and apparently they are waiting until they upgrade the forums in a weeks time to add it.

zephirot · #9 03-29-2006, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

and plans to move the NGRT to the private forum are in the works.

I'm going to die.

protagonist · #10 03-29-2006, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by konidias

1. You didn't pay to use these forums in a particular way. You paid to access graal servers, which also includes paying to ACCESS these forums. How (and if) you're allowed to post from there on out is up to Cyberjoueurs.

It is up also up to Cyberjouers as to whether or not they want to put a virus in Graal. Of course they wouldn't, because it is not ethical. It's a question of ethics, not ability.

Quote:

Originally Posted by konidias

2. When you pay for cake it's yours. You own the cake. You do not own the forums, you simply pay for access to it. It's nothing like buying an item that you own and can do whatever you want with.

Would you pay for internet on the condition that you could only look at the ISP's website? Would it be ethical for your ISP, having decided that bandwidth is too costly, use their ToS to justify making your access exclusively local to their network, saying that they'll give you access to the internet at some undisclosed time in the future but you have to keep giving them money?

Quote:

Originally Posted by konidias

It's not fair at all to ask for free forum time. It's selfish.

It sure must have cost you a lot to have Oasis up so long, huh?

Warcaptain · #11 03-29-2006, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by protagonist

It sure must have cost you a lot to have Oasis up so long, huh?

Oh dang no you didnt!! :-D

konidias · #12 03-29-2006, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by protagonist

It is up also up to Cyberjouers as to whether or not they want to put a virus in Graal. Of course they wouldn't, because it is not ethical. It's a question of ethics, not ability.

Um... how is it unethical of them to make some adjustments to the forums? You're still able to use them. You're posting this retarded thread aren't you?

Quote:

Would you pay for internet on the condition that you could only look at the ISP's website? Would it be ethical for your ISP, having decided that bandwidth is too costly, use their ToS to justify making your access exclusively local to their network, saying that they'll give you access to the internet at some undisclosed time in the future but you have to keep giving them money?

They can do whatever they please. If they do something I don't like, I can just find a new service. But if I've already agreed to pay for x amount of time, knowing that conditions could change, then there is nothing I can do about it. You agreed to them being able to change anything the moment you signed up for Graal.

Quote:

It sure must have cost you a lot to have Oasis up so long, huh?

What does that have to do with anything? I didn't ask Stefan to let me use the server for free. I recieved access to the Oasis server before playerworld renting even existed.

You might need to go on a diet after eating those words you've written.

Crono · #13 03-29-2006, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Major?
A couple of rules were added, and plans to move the NGRT to the private forum are in the works. I wouldn't call that "major restructuring"

Anyway, Konidias, and Spark summed it up nicely

Yes, it was major. We all got raped with that stupid links rule.

protagonist · #14 03-29-2006, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by konidias

Um... how is it unethical of them to make some adjustments to the forums? You're still able to use them. You're posting this retarded thread aren't you?

The adjustments are incredibly invasive as compared to what existed before. You know this as well as I do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by konidias

They can do whatever they please. If they do something I don't like, I can just find a new service. But if I've already agreed to pay for x amount of time, knowing that conditions could change, then there is nothing I can do about it. You agreed to them being able to change anything the moment you signed up for Graal.

Well, you may not value money as much as I do. When I pay for something, I would rather prefer that it's value is not signficantly depreciated arbitrarily when I still have a fair amount of time left to utilize it. It's a question of ethics, not practice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by konidias

What does that have to do with anything? I didn't ask Stefan to let me use the server for free. I recieved access to the Oasis server before playerworld renting even existed.

You might need to go on a diet after eating those words you've written.

That must have been nice, to be randomly given a playerworld for free and being allowed to keep it for so long for free without even saying anything.

Warcaptain · #15 03-29-2006, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by protagonist

Well, you may not value money as much as I do. When I pay for something, I would rather prefer that it's value is not signficantly depreciated arbitrarily when I still have a fair amount of time left to utilize it. It's a question of ethics, not practice.

As I already said to you.. if you have a VIP you arent even paying 3 dollars a day to access graal and the forums.