Classic Graal for iPhone

[xAndrewx]

oh- lolol

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Stefan

It's nice that people prefer my tiles over the much superior tiles from the newworld project, but it's impossible to ignore everything that has been said on more than two pages and just do a normal conversation acting like the other side is actually caring about what you say. Some people on this forum have such a narrow view on things that it's almost laughable. Why not actually talking about what is fun and what is not fun about Classic iPhone instead of comlaining over and over again about stuff that has nothing to do with the Classic iPhone project.

See the Classic PC project: Some people were complaining over and over again that Classic needs a client-side hit detection and ignored the fact that it needs to go back to the original gameplay and create new stuff like quests instead of talking about details no one cares about. It's like 'OH NO! THERE IS A TILE ERROR!" when you could just play or work on your own interesting Graal server project.

I hope the discussion can go back to the topic

I've never played the iPhone server, Xor showed me around once and things have changed since then so can't really comment too much other than from screenshots and videos I have seen and again having to talked to several of the players that had logged onto the PC server (that also happen to think that the tileset changes are "shoddy"), I don't see any reason to believe people are playing it due to any type of solid gameplay, but I believe the one thing it has going for it is quite simply the sheer huge playercount you can interact with.

While it's a little disappointing from a Classic player perspective to see so many with a nickname starting with Apprentice/Co-Leader/General/Leader etc Guilds are something that help encourage player interaction, something that can also be achieved through Sparring, PKing and Events though I don't think much effort has been put towards this yet.

With regards to Quest related content, i'm not sure if there is supposed to be any direction with that but I did notice that yet more of the Classic levels were taken in the form of the Gnome Caves for the tutorial server, this time being from a later date than the initial iPhone level set.
Again I don't know if they're being used or in what capacity but I think you'd have to do alot more than copy those to the server to create a Quest setup that would be attractive.

Something else to consider is Economy related content, Gralats are something that are required for purchasing + furnishing houses, aswell as creating Guilds, yet the only method of obtaining them last I heard seems to be cutting bushes and paying for them with real money which again I can't imagine being very attractive.

You bring up the point about the issue the PC server had with Hit Detection (although there were plenty of other issues that were raised), yet instead of further focussing on types of Community based content, or exploring alternative aspects of gameplay, you yourself seem to have focussed on the pointless and insignificant update of changing the tileset and building appearances, which unlike the Serverside Hit Detection we used to have on Classic no players had actually complained about the tiles used before.

[fowlplay4]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

you yourself seem to have focussed on the pointless and insignificant update of changing the tileset and building appearances

I suspect Nintendo lawyers had something to do with this, or else they never would of been replaced, and it's just not worth fighting to get kicked off the App Store over some tile gfx.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

I suspect Nintendo lawyers had something to do with this, or else they never would of been replaced, and it's just not worth fighting to get kicked off the App Store over some tile gfx.

If true then fair enough, though this doesn't explain why the cliff tiles were replaced as they are not the same as from LTTP whereas castle tiles are exactly the same, and again i'm hearing that most players on iPhone dislike what it has been changed to.

[DustyPorViva]

I find the legal thing baffling as there is absolutely nothing ripped in the slightest. Everything was redone, what could they be sued for?

[Admins]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

While it's a little disappointing from a Classic player perspective to see so many with a nickname starting with Apprentice/Co-Leader/General/Leader etc

Apprentice and Leader are the default rank names that's why you see many with those names Guilds are quite big on Classic iPhone, almost everyone is wearing a guild tag.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Apprentice and Leader are the default rank names that's why you see many with those names Guilds are quite big on Classic iPhone, almost everyone is wearing a guild tag.

I didn't mean for my post to come across as a criticism, I was bringing up Guild activity as one of the aspects that are pushing Player/Community interaction which ofcourse is something you're in a good position to utilise, I just find it unusual because Classic guilds didn't typically include the rank name as part of the nickname.

[DustyPorViva]

Sorry, Stefan, but you really do take our criticisms way too harsh. We all have the best interests in Graal -- if we didn't we wouldn't care at all. Many people have congratulated Graal on the success of the iPhone server. 1000 players is astonishing, especially compared to the PC version. But that doesn't mean that everything is fine, or should be treated as such.

The truth is the new changes do look bad, and it's not a personal bias or anything. The NW cliffs are sketchy and unfinished, have absolutely no shading and are broken. I never liked the NW stuff from the moment I saw them. They might have worked back then but now they're way outdated.

I personally don't think my tiles are quite fitting within pics1, and everything looks miss-matched. I think pics1 by itself was quite fitting and would suffice well enough. Redoing pics1 is not an easy task, and if it's to be done it should be done well, and from scratch.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Stefan

We reached more than 1000 players on one server yesterday evening Plus 160 on the tutorial server.

I've been saying the same thing since you got published on Engadget, but I'll say it again now - congrats.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Sorry, Stefan, but you really do take our criticisms way too harsh. We all have the best interests in Graal

Over the last six months Stefan has become more vocal and open about his opinions and ideas than he has been in the 7 (unfortunate?) years I've known him. It is something that, regardless of the message, really makes me happy. It brings a sense that maybe this ship isn't sinking as fast as we all think, and maybe - if we all work together - we can get it bailed out and back on the right track.

That's where we need to concentrate.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I've been saying the same thing since you got published on Engadget, but I'll say it again now - congrats.

Over the last six months Stefan has become more vocal and open about his opinions and ideas than he has been in the 7 (unfortunate?) years I've known him. It is something that, regardless of the message, really makes me happy. It brings a sense that maybe this ship isn't sinking as fast as we all think, and maybe - if we all work together - we can get it bailed out and back on the right track.

That's where we need to concentrate.

I agree to an extent. I love that Stefan is getting more involved with the community, but that doesn't make it okay. I'd just like to see them more accepting of criticism rather than always dismissing it. A lot of us put our time and effort into trying to better Graal for no other reason than to try to make it a better place -- look at all the people who have contributed to free tiles thread, all the code gallery scripts, the tutorials and such, and so many other countless people. Yet we all get handwaved when we try to say anything negative, even if the complaint has a solid backing because apparently we are whiny and ungrateful? I think many of us have been more than patient with Graal more than once.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

I agree to an extent. I love that Stefan is getting more involved with the community, but that doesn't make it okay. I'd just like to see them more accepting of criticism rather than always dismissing it. A lot of us put our time and effort into trying to better Graal for no other reason than to try to make it a better place -- look at all the people who have contributed to free tiles thread, all the code gallery scripts, the tutorials and such, and so many other countless people. Yet we all get handwaved when we try to say anything negative, even if the complaint has a solid backing.

Stefan has primed our failing community not only for future growth - but immediate success. That needs to be appreciated, regardless of hurt feelings. Not all of the candidates working on the iPhone are ideal, and not all of the ideal candidates get a shot.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Stefan has primed our failing community not only for future growth - but immediate success. That needs to be appreciated, regardless of hurt feelings. Not all of the candidates working on the iPhone are ideal, and not all of the ideal candidates get a shot.

And all the congratulations and kudos in this thread is not appreciation enough? What the hell do you think warrants enough appreciation? Also, he needs to be accepting of criticism regardless of how much appreciation he gets -- this is a business, remember?

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Stefan has primed our failing community not only for future growth - but immediate success. That needs to be appreciated, regardless of hurt feelings. Not all of the candidates working on the iPhone are ideal, and not all of the ideal candidates get a shot.

Are you even reading what he's saying?

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

And all the congratulations and kudos in this thread is not appreciation enough? What the hell do you think warrants enough appreciation? Also, he needs to be accepting of criticism regardless of how much appreciation he gets -- this is a business, remember?

Don't forget my greater opposition to Stefan over the years. He and his good pal have made a lot of stupid judgement calls - monkeys could perform business more successfully. However, I'm willing to set that aside for the stellar performance - a virtual "home run" - from Stefan's iPhone work. Game after game, these clowns have had great success on the iPhone.

We all want to have our say, and I've made it pretty clear in my history on Graal that I am definitely one of those people. A business has no obligation to take criticism, and success is certainly not mutually exclusive to criticism. You have to put your nose to the grind stone and drive your points home personally; talking is often not enough.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Don't forget my greater opposition to Stefan over the years. He and his good pal have made a lot of stupid judgement call - monkeys could perform business more successfully. However, I'm willing to set that aside for the stellar performance - a virtual "home run" - from Stefan's iPhone work. Game after game, these clowns have had great success on the iPhone.

We all want to have our say, and I've made it pretty clear in my history on Graal that I am definitely one of those people. A business has no obligation to take criticism, and success is certainly not mutually exclusive to criticism. You have to put your nose to the grind stone and drive your points home personally; talking is often not enough.

No, a business doesn't need to take criticism... but a good business should listen, don't you think?

Regardless of how many stupid decisions, or good decisions they have made doesn't mean the slightest in this circumstance. The new changes to the tileset look awful, and we are trying to tell him that. What's so hard to understand about that? Do you think these claims are false? Do you think they have no merit? But what happens? We're dismissed because apparently we're not being nice enough or something... or whining? I dunno, but my point is, is that not everyone is out to get Stefan and co, just because we're not saying something 'nice'. I wish he'd see that instead of always feeling like he's being attacked, because he's not.