Global Development Team

[ETD]

and this is why I asked the thread be closed
-_-
I don't even have time to read all this, much less reply... but I'd like to at least be able to respond to the things which were said about me (I skimmed for my name, and noticed it was mentioned...)

so I guess the thread won;t be closed, and I guess we'll have to continue arguing over something which I thought was settled...

[DarkShadows_Legend]

PD, the only scripter that 'bailed' on me was you, so I don;t see why you say that.

Why do you make those threads complaining that you get no help, and then make these threads saying 'omg if we don't get script help, then i am quitting'. You wanted to merge with NP to get more scripters, and the same with Babylon. So something like this would work in your favor to have some new people to harrass to build your server while you sit back hype up your playerworld and be like 'oh yeah look at my awesome server I built'.

Forget about the scripter part since my staff duties were clear from my positions of Events Chief->Admin->Assistant manager. Maybe I should have done more from the latter 2, but you yourself saw all the harrassment I got from the PW Renter, and in the case where I was scripting a lot of this stuff was new to me.
Even as Manager I don't have a clue what you wanted because all you ever did was complain. I say forget about the scripter part because look how many development staff bailed out on you before I was even staff on EoA. It is a large number of people, indeed.

[Darlene159]

ETD, I dont really see arguing, or bashing to a large degree, I see a discussion which is the intention, correct? Why do you want it closed now?

Also, about the quote "A tag would be fine so the pw's will know they can trust us"
Um, a tag does not automatically mean you can trust a person, and I dislike the meaning behind wanting a tag. I feel like a tag is wanted to be recognised as a global member, so they will be more willing to do as you say.

GST=Needed to moderate scripts on PW's...a bad script can shut down a pw, a bad script can create havok on a pw....alot of people need help with scripting as it is a very hard thing to learn.

GGT=Needed to regulate gfx on PW's....stolen graphics can create legal troubles for graal, therefore keeping a sharp eyeout for stolen material is detrimental

GDT=Why? We have a global graphics team, we have a global scripting team....a bad level cannot create havok on a pw, it cannot shut the pw down if made badly, it cannot create legal troubles for Graal. Also, making levels is not even that hard for people willing to work at it, and practice...If I can do it, then almost anyone can.

[Kristi]

Woo im late, and probably being repetitive but...

If your playerworld does not have good scripters, that is no one's fault but your own. Do not start one if you do not have a team, no one should have to "lead the way" for you to create a good team.

What ideals does this lead to anyway? 150 servers all approved? You seriously think having a large amount of servers will form any decent playerbase? At that point the players are just all going to want to hang out in one location because its an MMORPG! You play because theres other people!

The GST is a wonderful team. I had a dispute with *unnamed* manager, and I needed my scripts off a server (ones that werent released, just my work), but they were held hostage, so one of the wonderful GST members took care of it, had my stuff removed off the server that wasn't shown to the public, and back in my possession. YAY. Great job.

Bad idea, simply put!

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

GST=Needed to moderate scripts on PW's...a bad script can shut down a pw, a bad script can create havok on a pw....alot of people need help with scripting as it is a very hard thing to learn.

GGT=Needed to regulate gfx on PW's....stolen graphics can create legal troubles for graal, therefore keeping a sharp eyeout for stolen material is detrimental

GDT=Why? We have a global graphics team, we have a global scripting team....a bad level cannot create havok on a pw, it cannot shut the pw down if made badly, it cannot create legal troubles for Graal. Also, making levels is not even that hard for people willing to work at it, and practice...If I can do it, then almost anyone can.

I wont argue about the GST, but as for the GGT. Just because you can make graphics doesn't mean that you have a special gift of spotting illegal gfx. That's something anyone can do, from your job description of it anyway. I -HAVE- seen illegal gfx in the past months but obviously that's the GGT's job, no?

GDT would be both the GST and the GGT mixed with an additional level. Just because levels don't create havok doesn't mean that it's useless. What if a server's levels suck so hard that they go ahead and steal from other servers or upload levels sent to them via AIM or something like that and the PWA dont do much about it? (Right now I'm like "wtf just add pwa to the levels depertmant of GDT and have spark be the head of the GDT >_>")

[Dach]

WTF this thread sucks
You want to help servers with levels? Join their teams
GGT -> usefull for obvious reasons, a GFX guy will more readily spot a stolen gfx than myself or most anyone else, since they are actually a part of the gfx community

GST -> asking for scripts is completely different than helping with scripts, if they were to make scripts for servers, they would be completely devoid of all free time. They will gladly help (aslong as they're not busy) if you happen to get stuck solving some script problem that isn't out of your league (scripters have a code for a reason, deal with it). Oh, Wan, did you not ever happen to realize that scripters keep the script windows maximized? It's kind of hard to reply in RC when you can't see the window . Don't even try to say "check RC every once in awhile then " dealing with complex scripts just happens to be more important than your curiosity.

GLT -> Only worthy reason to have this is for the same reason as the GGT. But, as already said, Graal can't get sued for level issues. You want to lift the overall quality of Graal? Go work for the servers, you don't need a global tag. If they don't want your help, fine, let them be not good. No big deal if a handfull of the 150 PWs fail .

Idealistically, if we had enough talent in these three main areas of development on Graal, then yes we could set it up so all of you game design hobbyists could create your dream . But, that is far from possible.

[osrs]

I help more playerworlds than all GST members and i don't need global stuff. I understand and to be honest i like your idea, seems to be nice and needed at the moment since many people make projects and can't handle it. Good luck trying though.

[Loriel]

Originally Posted by WanDaMan

I'm to lazy to get them, just like you and angel was to update my level on era

What do you talk about?

Because he asks Loriel for scripts and he declines or replys with the famous comment what GST members use "I'll do it tonight"

This so makes no sense.

Okay, well help me on my server I need scripting. Since you helped him because he helped you why in hell wouldn't other gst members help me?

Some people ask in a much nicer way than you do.

you tried to help and you failed

What does that prove?

no that's just idiotic scripting, but scritps can be implanted into levels right? using no-shield.gif or something?

I am not talking about such malicious things, nothing but an admin checking what is uploaded can prevent this and that is not our job.

Because I'm not authorized?, and Hrmm I've seen markb with level 4 rc and he isn't gst so I guess you'd have level 4 considering he is only an events master on graal kingdoms

Do you not run your own PW? You are able to check whether I have adminlevel 4.
MarkB might have local level 4 rights on some servers, but that has nothing to do with the global adminlevel.

Forgot idleing?

You are so horribly stupid. You said productive, obviously to flame me based on your idea that I idle, and now you add idling to my list of productive things I do, thus making it a valid GST activity and breaking your flame. wtf.

Stop using italic font.

[Loriel]

Originally Posted by Gerami

Right now I'm like "wtf just add pwa to the levels depertmant of GDT and have spark be the head of the GDT >_>"

So you just want to rename a lot of things and wreak havoc upon the management, for what gain exactly?

[Loriel]

Originally Posted by osrs

I help more playerworlds than all GST members

This is pretty insulting. Will you please back it up with some facts that prove your point?

[R0bin]

Originally Posted by Loriel

I helped too, it was some time ago but I am rather convinced that I actually refactored some scripts and fixed some others.
ETD did not get along with R0bin so R0bin left, if I remember correctly.

Iirc this was before i was global, As when i was on Xone.

I dont seem to recall, however, misunderstanding anything. Note that i was probably being lazy at the time .

GDT would be a bad idea. I hate this "Developer" staff position that was invented, It was better when there were just NATs, LATs, and GATs.

If you are a public server, then most developing things should already done. If not, you should be moved back to UC status. Therefore, this team would be self-negating if it were only for public playerworlds.

[Milkdude99]

Originally Posted by WanDaMan

And to get a staff job like everyone else? why in hell dosn't GST AND GGT DO THAT? I MEAN THEY ARE JUST LIKE US I GUESS. THEY DON'T NEED GLOBAL RC AND MOONGOD EVEN YOU STATED THAT.

In my opinion the GFX Team (all 2 of them, one active one is not) doesn't need RC unless they are actively checking PWs for illegal content on a regular basis. But as we all know this is not being done, I don't fault Chris in this at all but rather the lack of Management guidance in this area, which honestly affects all Graal in all categories because there is no one taking an active lead and organizing all that, which needs and should be done. GST does have a need for RC just as the PWA does. As stated already for many reasons it has the need for it. I don’t down play anyone’s job on Graal no matter what it is because all have its place and all are needed.

Real problem lies and always has with Graal is there is no one that Unixmad and Stefan trust to the point of taking the active role in organizing the entire structure from scripts, levels, GFX on all PWs as well as making sure all rules are followed on all PWs. I don't blame Unixmad or Stefan for the mistrust in someone they have never met, would you if it was your livelihood? So it seems we are between a rock and a hard place. Graal desperately needs someone in the United States to represent the Company and take care of its interest here, as regard problems with players, accounts and legal matters to protect Graal. I believe the bulk of players are in North America so it stands to reason someone over here needs to be closely tied to Graal's interest here.

It is a quicker more efficient way to get things done since the troublemakers also seem to be more prevalent here in the USA. Much easier to get them dealt with when someone here was to do it for Unixmad, which of course this person or persons would keep in constant contact with Unixmad as far as the Company's aims and views on things. Unixmad would always control what is done. But again this is just my opinion on this.

Getting back to supervision, my idea of the GM is the person who makes sure the PWA is doing what needs to be done as well as ALL the Global Staff are indeed doing what they are suppose to do. But as far as I know the GM has NEVER taken an active role in doing this, I don't know if it is Unixmad's doing or just lack of direction by the GM. But I think the supervision of the Game may need to be seriously looked at if we are to solve the problems of Graal we have today.

[Scott]

This thread is brilliant.
Oh, and this idea is lame. <3 I won't post why, because it has all been said.

[Milkdude99]

Originally Posted by Gerami

Management nightmare? I think not, someone like Spark can manage this since the PWA aren't the busiest people around..or so I think.

They dont need global RC's, probably just tags so that managers of servers know that they can TRUST the person and know that the person will not "cheat" or anything of the sort.



It's NOT about removing any Global position. In my view, the plan is to transfer all current global developers into one "branch" called "GDT" which is development in general, be it scripting, graphics, and/or levels.

Much of what the PWA does is behind the scenes and if the PWA Member is doing what they are supposed to be doing you are constantly busy or at least I was when I was PWA.
I also went to PWs and downloaded the server logs and well as kept backups of serveroptions and folder config of each server I was on, this would be impossible to do without RC would it not? Not all servers want you getting their logs because of what may be in them so getting "local rights" would be impossible to do and why the Global RC is necessary in cases like this.

Playerworld Administration would be a worthless title if we did not have the power to backup what we needed to do would it not? It indeed would not be an Admin job at all, with the power also brings responsibility to Graal and it's players and never should be taken lightly. Also what you describe as the "GDT" is already what the PWA does or should be doing. Do you think all we do is go and fuss about things on PWs? It shouldn't be , we should be helping the PWs not only in their Management but also helping them in whatever they need , if it is beyond our skills then the PWA Member should then go and GET the aid the PW needs and bring it to them. Yes that would mean looking for a Lat or whatever to assist them in what they are doing. This is what it is all about helping each other on all servers to meet one common goal " the betterment of Graal".

[ETD]

Originally Posted by Loriel

But is that not kind of implied here? Hm.?

no...

Originally Posted by Loriel

That means you are unable to get staff on your own, and instead you want to indirectly get staff by getting them to be global and then make them work on your server... ??

no...

Originally Posted by Loriel

But he most likely would have tried.

yea, I was wrong there, seems he does want to be a part of it.

Originally Posted by Loriel

why do you think such is the best thing for PWs?

I explained that in the first post...

Originally Posted by Loriel

I helped too, it was some time ago but I am rather convinced that I actually refactored some scripts and fixed some others.
ETD did not get along with R0bin so R0bin left, if I remember correctly.

I explained what happened in my post, try reading.
1. No, you did nothing
2. I disconnected Robin from RC, because we were just arguing, over what ended up being a missunderstanding (he missunderstood me, I missunderstood him... from my end it looked like he was saying he wouldn;t do any work, unless he had high RC rights... which I wasn;t about to give him)

Originally Posted by Loriel

Are you not continously accusing us of bailing out on you?

He said MY scripters... you guys just offered help, you weren;t staff of mine. And I don't 'constantly' accusing you guys, Wan brought it up, not me.

Originally Posted by Loriel

Hey, it was you that just made a two ton post about this

you've made replies to this topic longer than my origional post

Originally Posted by DarkShadows_Legend

Why do you make those threads complaining that you get no help, and then make these threads saying 'omg if we don't get script help, then i am quitting'.

Because people TELL me to make them... I made one thread asking for scripters, then one thread saying that I was going to end EoA. This thread had nothing to do with my server, and just was an idea I threw out there, mostly to get the discussion of a GLT out of that other thread. Stop making this thread about me, and discuss the actual topic -_-

Originally Posted by DarkShadows_Legend

Forget about the scripter part since my staff duties were clear from my positions of Events Chief->Admin->Assistant manager. Maybe I should have done more from the latter 2, but you yourself saw all the harrassment I got from the PW Renter, and in the case where I was scripting a lot of this stuff was new to me.

You were Events, AND Scripting chief to begin with... and you did a dang good job at it, which is why I still have not been able to recover since you left I don't see why you're trying to talk negativly about me in this thread, when I have done nothing but compliment you

Originally Posted by DarkShadows_Legend

Even as Manager I don't have a clue what you wanted because all you ever did was complain. I say forget about the scripter part because look how many development staff bailed out on you before I was even staff on EoA. It is a large number of people, indeed.

Umm.. I asked your opinion a LOT, and the only time you told me what you were thinking was after you quit I wanted your imput MANY times, and you wouldn't give me anything... also, I complimented you a LOT, maybe not always to your face, but to others... I also, who 'bailed' on me? I know I fired a good amount of people, but they didn't do much work anyways... we still have the same core staff that we always have had, exept you left.

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I see a discussion which is the intention, correct? Why do you want it closed now?

The discussion was over when I asked for it to be closed... what more is there to be discussed? People are just repeating the same thing over and over now, arguing for no reason, because Spark said what would need to be done for the team to be formed... there is nothing left to discuss. Also, some people have desided to make part of this thread about me, and my server, when it shouldn't be
-------------------------------------
ok, I just replied to parts that were directed at me, or about me... I am not arguing about this anymore, and I'd like it if people would stop discussing myself, or my server in a thread which isn't supposed to be about either