Observer Mode pending removal!

[dbug]

Originally Posted by Crono

All they gotta do is add instance'd houses, gralat hats, and they're pretty much like iClassic. lel

Instance'd houses? I know Stefan said that since its not about leveling and all that that it was special... but why can't it be limited to hearts (quests) and stuff? like 4 or 5 hearts.. i can't imagine it would be hard to have something like that done.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by dbug

Instance'd houses? I know Stefan said that since its not about leveling and all that that it was special... but why can't it be limited to hearts (quests) and stuff? like 4 or 5 hearts.. i can't imagine it would be hard to have something like that done.

you mean pay to acquire hp? no.

[dbug]

Originally Posted by Crono

you mean pay to acquire hp? no.

Well I ment as in like a 1 time upgrade.. sorta a lifetime for that server subscription. since it's already "free" to play like era and zodiac.. but i see your point.. hmm

theres gotta be something equal UN could offer tho. besides selling items. honestly maybe sell hat's? since thats pretty big over there.

[DustyPorViva]

So what system are PC servers meant to run under? Are they still using the global gralat shop or what? On iClassic/iEra they just use in-game gralats as a currency, which helps a lot in giving players a choice. They can either just buy more in-game gralats, or they can actually obtain them in-game at a much slower pace. This is what cash shops are about. But is that even possible on PC? I mean, if UN were to go to such a system what would stop staff from just collapsing the system by giving their friends tons of gralats? All it would take is someone with a single RW level to do his bidding.

I guess on PC the global shop is the only secure way to have such a system because of exploits. I feel maybe Stefan should instead set up a server config when enabled locks down things like player.rupees and such. That way servers can opt for an iServer sort of set-up, and not worry about one rogue staff exploiting it all.

[dbug]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

So what system are PC servers meant to run under? Are they still using the global gralat shop or what? On iClassic/iEra they just use in-game gralats as a currency, which helps a lot in giving players a choice. They can either just buy more in-game gralats, or they can actually obtain them in-game at a much slower pace. This is what cash shops are about. But is that even possible on PC? I mean, if UN were to go to such a system what would stop staff from just collapsing the system by giving their friends tons of gralats? All it would take is someone with a single RW level to do his bidding.

I guess on PC the global shop is the only secure way to have such a system because of exploits. I feel maybe Stefan should instead set up a server config when enabled locks down things like player.rupees and such. That way servers can opt for an iServer sort of set-up, and not worry about one rogue staff exploiting it all.

Couldn't they add a login script and a server option so they could lock rupee's down and still provide access to them? like limit how many can be given via script? log potential abuse.. or how would servers provide gralats without abuse?

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by dbug

Couldn't they add a login script and a server option so they could lock rupee's down and still provide access to them? like limit how many can be given via script? log potential abuse.. or how would servers provide gralats without abuse?

I think if Gralat's were locked, only specific scripts would be able to add them(for example on iClassic that would be the actual Gralats NPC dropped by bushes, and the script that gives gralats for bugs sold); and it would be logged.

[dbug]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

I think if Gralat's were locked, only specific scripts would be able to add them(for example on iClassic that would be the actual Gralats NPC dropped by bushes, and the script that gives gralats for bugs sold); and it would be logged.

Well once iZone comes to PC maybe this will be the beginning to the new way of how things work.. It might be the first test to how a system like this may actually work? tho I dont see how you would get gelets on zone for ezample? same with era.. arent there currency different?

[DustyPorViva]

1) Disable stat tracking for trials. Kills, deaths, hours, AP and so on should all be locked at default. Surprisingly many players take these things seriously.

2) (at least applicable to UN) Can only participate in X amount of spars/events a day. Starting off there will be plenty to get players potentially interested in the server, but afterwards the only replay value will probably come from events and sparring. Again, no stat tracking so they'll always retain default spar rating until they upgrade.

3) (Again, mostly for UN and servers like it) Do not let them spend EP, or other rewarding currency. Let them obtain it, but they can't spend it unless they're upgraded.

4) Default load out of looks, obviously. iClassic also offers this as an incentive, and does it much better than observer, with a more generous load-out of heads and such. However to have custom heads, or access to the thousands or so available they'll need to upgrade.

5) No access to bonus customization aspects. For example UN has the Rent A Room or whatever.

All of these things can give a player incentive to upgrade while not putting them at a gameplay disadvantage to other players. It's not going to incite a player to pay to play a game when he can't even try it on equal/fair grounds with other players.

However Stefan has a point, and something I have touched on before -- it's pointless if the servers are not secure. This sort of program isn't going to work if corrupt staff are just going to manipulate scripts and work around things for their friends and such. That's a big deal, but how that's settled is a different matter.

[ffcmike]

I should point out once more that despite multiple requests Stefan has never made any effort to explain what security measures he expects, or shown any acknowledgement of existing measures. As of 2 weeks ago he also said something on the lines of that he doesn't even see why observer mode is bad.

[dbug]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

I don't see why Stefan would be interested in side-stepping from one gameplay crippling set-up to another. The iOS servers have already proven that the set-up they use works, so why not implement it on PC? Then again I'm not suggesting he wouldn't, but that it would be in his better interest to mimic a system he knows works, rather than screwing around with gameplay-limiting mechanics again.

Right, which is going to be interesting to see if said systems also carry over when zone for iphone becomes accessable via the pc client as opposed to the traditional facebook only.. if it can confirm that said changes benefit graal more-so then previously tried and failed methods it may appear to be more appealing to pursue that path.

still he did it with era and zodiac.. no other server is even interested in taking the first initial step of implimenting and proving it works, secured, and etc before asking for premission.

I still think implimenting your system and proving it works (not just pointing at other servers that are different that have similar goal of removing obs mode)... u gotta remember.. graal is trying to make you pay for something.. but everyone complains it makes the game unplayable in such and such areas.. thats...the...point..

like on classic they wanted to block the bridge heading north.. to my knowledge events would still work.. first quest would still work (and while i think you should be able to do slightly more then 1.. maybe 3 quests? 5?) allowing all but the "newest" quest wouldnt work as the trials would go psh ill just wait for another quest to come out and do the next one for free.. o-o tho limiting the level to the bridge? thats stupid stefan.. really.. theres a much better line you could draw that allowes (some but not all questing).

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by dbug

no other server is even interested in taking the first initial step of implimenting and proving it works, secured, and etc before asking for premission.

It is not practical to prove that a scripted restriction incites trials into upgrading when you already have such a prohibitive restriction as observer mode enforced on top of such a hefty temporary subscription price. That assumption is also not entirely true, UN and Classic have had restrictions in place with a view to it being an official restriction should observer mode be removed.

Originally Posted by dbug

u gotta remember.. graal is trying to make you pay for something.. but everyone complains it makes the game unplayable in such and such areas.. thats...the...point..

If Graal is trying to make you pay a price greater than a new Zelda release for a temporary 12 month subscription, it is only reasonable to expect a decent experience of the game beforehand. Restricting players to a watered down and heavily restricted experience is more likely to just make them find a different game.

Originally Posted by dbug

like on classic they wanted to block the bridge heading north.. to my knowledge events would still work.. first quest would still work

First quest?
It's more equivalent to a quarter of a tutorial.

Originally Posted by dbug

allowing all but the "newest" quest wouldnt work as the trials would go psh ill just wait for another quest to come out and do the next one for free..

They'd have to miss out at a time where there's likely to be a buzz among upgraded players, who would also have the advantage of the latest item/HP.
I think that's better than having a static cut-off point and trials simply never coming back (Ideally there'd be no restriction, this is only meant as a compromise).

[dbug]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

It is not practical to prove that a scripted restriction incites trials into upgrading when you already have such a prohibitive restriction as observer mode enforced on top of such a hefty temporary subscription price. That assumption is also not entirely true, UN and Classic have had restrictions in place with a view to it being an official restriction should observer mode be removed.


If Graal is trying to make you pay a price greater than a new Zelda release for a temporary 12 month subscription, it is only reasonable to expect a decent experience of the game beforehand. Restricting players to a watered down and heavily restricted experience is more likely to just make them find a different game.


First quest?
It's more equivalent to a quarter of a tutorial.


They'd have to miss out at a time where there's likely to be a buzz among upgraded players, who would also have the advantage of the latest item/HP.
I think that's better than having a static cut-off point and trials simply never coming back (Ideally there'd be no restriction, this is only meant as a compromise).

The origonal purpose for trials was to test the game to make sure there pc (hardware) was appropriate for playing graal on.. would you not agree that pauing $60 USD or more to find out your crap computer cant run any servers at all? I guess with the introduction of the "guest" account it stired up alot of confusion. I think the point was that trial accounts at least save progress where guest accounts can be iffy.. especially if you format your pc and now have a new PCID... so in a sense.. trials are still working not only as designed but with much more respect for trials then before. Like I mentioned.. you get a commercial every so often after your first 4 hours of game play..you should probably be pissed at your cable provider for forcing commercials on you after you PAY for the service would you not agree? I mean its an equal comparison, I dont want commercials.. so whats the difference?

Yes I agree that having free to play, but pay for other benefits is definately the way to go.. but I did not create graal.. so the decision is not mine.. and i should not be a jerk about it to the owners who have created such a game beyond aparantly my, and everyone that play's ability to make such a extensive peice of software.. just my opinion tho..

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by dbug

Like I mentioned.. you get a commercial every so often after your first 4 hours of game play..you should probably be pissed at your cable provider for forcing commercials on you after you PAY for the service would you not agree? I mean its an equal comparison, I dont want commercials.. so whats the difference?

Originally Posted by dbug

Yes I agree that having free to play, but pay for other benefits is definately the way to go.. but I did not create graal.. so the decision is not mine.. and i should not be a jerk about it to the owners who have created such a game beyond aparantly my, and everyone that play's ability to make such a extensive peice of software.. just my opinion tho..

I think for a game that is highly dependent on volunteer developers and staff it is only reasonable for such people to ask questions of the policies, and push for real answers when they are constantly contradicted. Otherwise imagine if a very similar set of software did emerge where you did not have to worry about such policies, what would be a good reason to stay here?

[Cloven]

[dbug]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

I think for a game that is highly dependent on volunteer developers and staff it is only reasonable for such people to ask questions of the policies, and push for real answers when they are constantly contradicted. Otherwise imagine if a very similar set of software did emerge where you did not have to worry about such policies, what would be a good reason to stay here?

So your saying Stefan has nothing whatsoever to do with any development of any server? *cough* zone, iphone zone, graal kingdoms (which is heavily in c++) *cough* just to mention a few. As of right now, at least according to you, developers are on strike.. so there not developing actually.. why does there opinion even matter if they themselves refuse to develop?