Dear Graal Online Staff...

[Tricxta]

There is nothing right with charging money for a dead pc graal game yet people still pay, why do you think stefan or unixmad is gunna change it anyway. If people are still paying why would they care?

[Admins]

Originally Posted by oo_jazz_oo

There are just so many problems with this...

You know that all those shields are lagging the players and by making it free we would get even more of them? It costs money to serve the files, and it costs work to check and approve them, that's why it needs to cost something. We also made it relatively cheap, and most players seem to like the system (costs some money but you get it relatively quickly online).
You don't always need to cry OH NO NOW I MUST GO AND CUT SOME BUSHES TO GET MY BEAUTIFUL SHIELD ONLINE
Prices can always be changed although like I said there is more about it than just 2k hard drive space or so.

[DuBsTeRmAn]

Originally Posted by Stefan

You know that all those shields are lagging the players and by making it free we would get even more of them? It costs money to serve the files, and it costs work to check and approve them, that's why it needs to cost something. We also made it relatively cheap, and most players seem to like the system (costs some money but you get it relatively quickly online).
You don't always need to cry OH NO NOW I MUST GO AND CUT SOME BUSHES TO GET MY BEAUTIFUL SHIELD ONLINE

Love how you said that, really. Though yeah i agree, its not much work cutting some bushes.

[fowlplay4]

Originally Posted by DuBsTeRmAn

Love how you said that, really. Though yeah i agree, its not much work cutting some bushes.

It is when it takes 10 hours to accumulate the amount needed.

[oo_jazz_oo]

Originally Posted by Stefan

You know that all those shields are lagging the players and by making it free we would get even more of them?

Usually, when one goes into the online gaming business, they have servers that can appropriately serve that purpose.

Originally Posted by Stefan

It costs money to serve the files, and it costs work to check and approve them, that's why it needs to cost something. We also made it relatively cheap, and most players seem to like the system (costs some money but you get it relatively quickly online).

It does cost money to host files on a server, but definitely not 1$ per image file.
And 'relatively cheap' as compared to what? The actual price of the game?
If thats your measure, then yes. Uploading shields is cheaper than buying the game itself. (Not by much, mind you)
And I dont know where you get your information that players like the system. I read through countless complaints on facebook.

Originally Posted by Stefan

You don't always need to cry OH NO NOW I MUST GO AND CUT SOME BUSHES TO GET MY BEAUTIFUL SHIELD ONLINE

Your right, you don't have to. But how else do you get money....oh right, theres that convenient little purchase button that puts money into your account. Brilliant alternative.

Originally Posted by Stefan

Prices can always be changed although like I said there is more about it than just 2k hard drive space or so.

Prices do need to be adjusted.
Thor had the best idea, making an upload pack for players to purchase...then you get money for server space, and people dont pay an arm and a leg to upload shields.

[fowlplay4]

Well since hats and heads are sold without issue, making them cost money but provide an option to 'Submit for Public Consumption' (include a free to submit not necessarily get uploaded and usable) option and if enough of them are of high enough quality, create a new store and sell them, and as a sign of good faith give the artist a 5-10% cut per sale.

It would actually give the people who spend time making the heads and hats incentive to continue making them. So instead of getting gralats from just one player, you get it from multiple.

Obviously submitting stolen work would be a problem but the end result definitely seems worth it as compared to the system currently proposed.

Shields and swords should be free though, or 100 gralats if you really insist are on charging for it.

[DuBsTeRmAn]

Holy hell, Thats long. 10 Hours bushcutting.. why do you still play that game?

[Tricxta]

when your a real iNoob time has no meaning :P

[Crono]

Originally Posted by DuBsTeRmAn

Holy hell, Thats long. 10 Hours bushcutting.. why do you still play that game?

ppl like to just sit around and socialize. they're all young teens (like we were when we started Graal) so it's not like they have anything to do.

hell i dont either i should be playing iphone

[fowlplay4]

Originally Posted by Crono

ppl like to just sit around and socialize. they're all young teens (like we were when we started Graal) so it's not like they have anything to do.

hell i dont either i should be playing iphone

got ffm?

[WhiteDragon]

I think everyone should remember how rarely we get to discuss these things with Stefan, and how sarcasm usually doesn't do much except make things confusing and heat up the discussion. It's best to think critically and utilize this opportunity we have to make a point.



Let me throw some information around to orient the discussion:

• Graal is for-profit. They want to make money.
• Graal is private and by law doesn't need to reveal to us how much money they are making.
• It costs money to run Graal. It isn't a small amount of money judging by the number of servers required, mentioned by Stefan.

Of course, on the other hand, it's also worth mentioning that the PC community has felt 'gypped' for a long time and there is trust lacking that when Graal charges for something, it isn't just trying to bludgeon all the money out of its customers.


Something that has always contributed to this sense of being gypped is that players often are charged for doing things which help Graal out. Such as:

• Players getting charged for rights to develop.
• Players getting charged for servers.
• Players not getting any money back for running Classic servers.

(I'm not saying any of these are necessarily right or wrong, but that they exist.)

So charging for player uploads, whether it's good or not, definitely doesn't look or feel good considering Graal's track record.

Many probably think: "Who's to say that they aren't just trying to do the same dance that makes us pay to do work for them?"

Whether it's micro- or mega- transactions, the sense of being gypped won't go away if these sorts of charges exist.




The way to fix this problem is to:

• Be more transparent, and let the players know exactly how much it costs for bandwidth and storage of shields, so they don't feel robbed when they pay for one, but instead that they are holding their own weight.
• Start giving back. It makes sense that people need to pay for a server when they start out: because it's making Graal lose money. But once it goes Classic-tab, the server should not only be free (as it is), but the staff should get paid, with actual money. Developing is hard work, and no one likes being robbed for doing work. Pay a percentage of sales back to the developers (possibly based on server population).

I don't think this feeling of being gypped is a hard one to fix, it just requires some time to figure out the numbers. If that time is invested, expect a good response from the playerbase. I think this investment from Eurocenter is a reasonable thing for all the players to ask for.

[Crono]

Either way players keep the PC version alive both as 'players' and 'developers'. Despite the worst, a lot of us kept going.

You're welcome.

[WanDaMan]

You get money from sponsers, events, quests; just to name a few.

On iEra if people help us develop something we also give them a free upload or if we do a competition and get everyone involved on the server we also give other freebies.

We understand that players are funding everything so we have a lot of fun with them we constantly participate and get involved in events on the server to make it more enjoyable for them.

[Devil_Lord2]

Originally Posted by WanDaMan

You get money from sponsers, events, quests; just to name a few.

On iEra if people help us develop something we also give them a free upload or if we do a competition and get everyone involved on the server we also give other freebies.

We understand that players are funding everything so we have a lot of fun with them we constantly participate and get involved in events on the server to make it more enjoyable for them.

I'd appreciate it if you let iClassic in on some of the 'having a lot of fun,
getting involved in events, and making it more enjoyable' secrets.



-------------



I personally think players should be payed 'slightly' for making their 'codes' as they call them,
or others would say heads, bodies, shields, swords, and hats.
Perhaps 10-20% profit for each head, hat or body bought.
Shields and Swords could be private, global, or for guild members.


Possibly each person could be limited to 5 or so uploads.
Some of the current staff members could search through some of the shields and swords they consider crap and delete them.

Furthermore, it could also cost money to delete one of the five already uploaded to be able to have a different thing submitted.
(Gralets Purchase, not USD, maybe USD for 10-20 uploads)


This takes care of the trust issue if the prices are reasonable.
It gives players a reason to take the time to do fix up the sword or shield how they want since they can only submit up to ?5.
And it would, I assume, save space on the server. Stefan already said it could be done to have the swords or shields private.
And the creators would even be happy; especially if they developed a nice hat, head, or body.


I agree to different money systems as bushwhacking can get old ;o
Why not have different type of ways to make money on iClassic too?
I don't think I'd mind picking cotton for money.

[Kamaeru]

Here's my dilemma:

When Graal first decided to charge money to its players, what did it charge them for?

A server. What server?

Graal2001. Was it worth the money?

Yes.

Are the things Graal is now charging money for worth purchasing compared to Graal2001 in its entirety?

Have the management and main influences (as far as thought goes) changed?

No.

Stefan, we expect you to produce something good for the price you ask, just as if, say, we hear that Shigeru Miyamoto is going to release a new game and the price is going up, the players are really going to put the pressure on the man to produce something worth the money.

And I really do think that Graal2001 is up there with Super Mario Bros. 3, being one of the very best video games ever created that I have personally played.

Why not make another good server worth playing, and furthermore worth paying for?