Questions and Concerns

[Mykel]

Originally Posted by ViCtOrEhEhEh

Listen to the players.

Why? It is his server that he and others are making. He should make it the way that he likes it. There are going to be people that dislike it no matter what, so why put your effort and money into something that you don't?

[Googi]

Originally Posted by konidias

Googi, I'm creating a semi-realistic npc king... not complete and total artificial intelligence. Like I said, it can have emotion and personality, but you can't have complicated conversations with it. All aimbots are, are simply phrase generators that use keywords as their trigger action. You say "cheese" or something and it picks a phrase based on that keyword and spits it back at you. If you put something in the form of a question, it will try to use the keywords to answer.

Yeah okay, so how much of this have you actually scripted?

[Loriel]

While I refuse to take a position in this debate, I will show that your argument is not decisive and based on flawed assumptions!

Originally Posted by Kuza

With the right amount of NPC programming this could properly be done.

With the right amount of NPC programming we can have awesome ingame 3d engines and AIs that replace all staff and produce awesome new content and write new scripts themselves!

This, in itself, is not a convincing argument. The amount of programming is not the question, but rather the finesse and design required.

Tell me what the difference between an NPC king and a player king is?

Why do we have people in charge of things and not NPCs? Why are people necessary over programmed behaviour? Certainly companies would be run more efficiently if they were managed by computers and not people, and a computer teaching children is way awesomer than an actual teacher. And if the parliament was replaced by a deterministic program, there would be way less chaos in politics! While we are at it, let's replace Moonie with a php script that filters illegal posts before they are even posted!

For me, it's the fact an NPC king is pre-programmed to make certain decisions and the player king can make any decision... even the wrong ones. (e.g. the destruction of the old kingdoms)

The NPC king, however, will fail to make certain important decisions, because it lacks the ability to even consider them, which is going to be as fatal as a player king making the wrong decisions. Both can be counteracted by having staff take over their tasks and overriding their decisions, but that makes the kingdom concept way less interesting.

In a way, it is more damaging because the NPC king lacks the ability to advance the development of his kingdom, and is limited to fairly simple decisions that are based on actual simple game mechanics.

Kingdoms are not vital to the success of Graal2001.

This discussion is not about the necessity of kingdoms. Whether we need any is beyond its scope, and everybody agrees that they need to be done right. Consider making a separate thread for this question.

[konidias]

Right now Kings are not my top priority, but when we get around to working on them, I will try my best to design the kings to exceed most of your expectations. That's all I can really say about the issue.

Any other questions or concerns then?

[Googi]

Originally Posted by konidias

Right now Kings are not my top priority, but when we get around to working on them, I will try my best to design the kings to exceed most of your expectations. That's all I can really say about the issue.

In other words, you think you can script them because you haven't actually tried to.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by konidias

Right now Kings are not my top priority, but when we get around to working on them, I will try my best to design the kings to exceed most of your expectations. That's all I can really say about the issue.

How the hell are you going to expect kingdoms to work with an NPC king?

Any other questions or concerns then?

Refer to above.

[ViCtOrEhEhEh]

Originally Posted by Googi

Yeah okay, so how much of this have you actually scripted?

Read that Koni.

[konidias]

Originally Posted by ViCtOrEhEhEh

Read that Koni.

Originally Posted by konidias

Right now Kings are not my top priority, but when we get around to working on them

Read that Victor.

Originally Posted by Googi

In other words, you think you can script them because you haven't actually tried to.

Yes because God forbid someone thinks they can accomplish something before they have tried to.

[Infernix]

oooooo you just lowered my hopes for your server. I think you need to analyze you plan and think about everything that could intterupt it and cause it to fail. I mean seriously think about it hard. Dont just read this and assume your ideas are flawless. Just rlly think about it. Infact dont even respond to this post. Just effing think about it.

[Loriel]

Originally Posted by Infernix

oooooo you just lowered my hopes for your server. I think you need to analyze you plan and think about everything that could intterupt it and cause it to fail. I mean seriously think about it hard. Dont just read this and assume your ideas are flawless. Just rlly think about it. Infact dont even respond to this post. Just effing think about it.

Oooh, you just lowered my opinion of the average forum user. I think you need to analyze your posts and think about everything that makes them retarded and causes me to ridicule you. I mean seriously think about it hard. Do not just read this and assume your posts are flawless. Just really think about it. In fact, do not even respond to this post. Just, please, think about it.

[konidias]

haha loriel...

Yeah well don't think I haven't already analyzed it. I obviously wouldn't even think about doing it if it was going to have a ton of problems. I have like hours worth of documentation on it already. It's not like I just say "there will be npc kings!!" and that's all there is. I've been into game design since I was 13 and I'm nearly 23 now. I've been drawing/writing up designs for games since you were 7 years old. I think I know a little bit about the process.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by konidias

Yes because God forbid someone thinks they can accomplish something before they have tried to.

For something like this, yeah. Thinking you can make something like this is pretty ignorant. It would be more reasonable to think that you might be able to make it, and you definitely shouldn't be telling people that it's definitely going to happen.

[konidias]

It will be made. I know my limitations better than you know my limitations.

Let's break this down to the real issue. You don't like me because I'm not giving rocks owner tags and I'm removing player bomies. Case closed. =P

[Loriel]

Originally Posted by konidias

I'm not giving rocks owner tags

I'm removing player bomies.

[Kuza]

Originally Posted by Loriel

With the right amount of NPC programming we can have awesome ingame 3d engines and AIs that replace all staff and produce awesome new content and write new scripts themselves!

This, in itself, is not a convincing argument. The amount of programming is not the question, but rather the finesse and design required.

It's called a generalization. Graal itself would not exist if 3D engines and AI advanced so much. Much less any other current MMORPG. We'd be playing some sort of holographic-virtual-reality-real-life-simulator!

Originally Posted by Loriel

Why do we have people in charge of things and not NPCs? Why are people necessary over programmed behaviour? Certainly companies would be run more efficiently if they were managed by computers and not people, and a computer teaching children is way awesomer than an actual teacher. And if the parliament was replaced by a deterministic program, there would be way less chaos in politics! While we are at it, let's replace Moonie with a php script that filters illegal posts before they are even posted!

You are totally taking this out of the context of a game and applying it to real life scenarios. Which isn't the case here... we're talking about NPC kings not politicians and the senate.

Originally Posted by Loriel

The NPC king, however, will fail to make certain important decisions, because it lacks the ability to even consider them, which is going to be as fatal as a player king making the wrong decisions. Both can be counteracted by having staff take over their tasks and overriding their decisions, but that makes the kingdom concept way less interesting.

In a way, it is more damaging because the NPC king lacks the ability to advance the development of his kingdom, and is limited to fairly simple decisions that are based on actual simple game mechanics.

Who is to say Konidias won't be able to intervene and add more commands when the appropriate time comes? We don't even know the foundation which is being layed out for kingdoms, we're simply being skeptical. Give it a chance, mang. I'm sure kingdom members will have the ability to direct the kingdom in a good or bad direction.

Originally Posted by Loriel

This discussion is not about the necessity of kingdoms. Whether we need any is beyond its scope, and everybody agrees that they need to be done right. Consider making a separate thread for this question.

Agreed.