Knightress!

[Lance]

Originally posted by Darlene159
Why are you trying to make it look like I dont want any rules to be followed?

I'm not.

When I said you cant ban people for things outside of graal, I meant general behavior, as in cussing, and so on.

Well, perhaps specify so next time, because blanket statements like that are bad.

As for Bloo trying to reconcile with me, no he wasnt. He was demanding an apology for a reason he refused to give when I asked, he completely ignored it when I asked what I was to apologize for. I have never done anything to either one of them on graal or on the forums, so dont give me that crap.

Um, he said he'd apologize to you for any perceived bad behavior if you'd apologize to him for any perceived bad behavior. When people are mutually apologizing, you can consider that reconciliation.

As for what I said about paying, I did not imply that just because people pay, they can do whatever they want. I simply said that people pay and should not be banned for no reason, and not get their full monies worth.

Actually, you said this:

Originally posted by Darlene159 (in the other thread)
Sorry, I havent done anything to break rules on any graal server, and I pay to play whatever server I want, also I asked what it was you thought I should apologize for, and you never answered, was it just a general thing to shut me up?

Sound familiar?

That, to me, sounds like you are saying you pay to play at whatever server you want. Suggestion: Say what you mean next time. Not all of us are psychic, you know.

If it is allowed to let people ban people just because they dont like that person, and these people pay for it, that ias completely unfair

I agree, it's unfair. That's where the word responsible comes in. Responsible PW Managers should be able to control access to their servers. Unfortunately, the irresponsible ones far outnumber the responsible ones, and as mentioned by Tyhm, the irresponsible ones ban people for personal vendettae, rather than for some good reason.

You are making it look like I dont agree with these PW's following rules, when it is quite the opposite, I am pissed that they dont follow any rules at all

Uh, you're the one who said "I pay to play whatever server I want," not me. Please, don't say that I am making you look some way, when the only one doing so is you.

[Darlene159]

Lance...if you read that part again where I said I pay to play whatever server I want, the first part of it clearly stated that I do not break graal rules, meaning that if a person follows the graal rules, they shouldnt be restricted from playing on any PW. However, anyone who pays, but does not wish to follow rules, obviously doesnt deserve the right to play. I hope I am clear now

Bloo said he would apologize to me for bad behavior, if I would apologize to him for bad behavior....that's all well and good, except I have had no "bad behavior" in which to apologize for. I asked him to provide me with what he thought I should apologize for specifically, and I was ignored. I like to know what I am apologizing for, ya know? I DO NOT cause any trouble on Archaic, therefore there is no reason for the ban at all

[Lance]

Originally posted by Darlene159
Lance...if you read that part again where I said I pay to play whatever server I want, the first part of it clearly stated that I do not break graal rules, meaning that if a person follows the graal rules, they shouldnt be restricted from playing on any PW. However, anyone who pays, but does not wish to follow rules, obviously doesnt deserve the right to play. I hope I am clear now

The word 'and' is not logically equivalent to the word 'therefore', but yeah, I understand what you mean now.

Bloo said he would apologize to me for bad behavior, if I would apologize to him for bad behavior....that's all well and good, except I have had no "bad behavior" in which to apologize for. I asked him to provide me with what he thought I should apologize for specifically, and I was ignored. I like to know what I am apologizing for, ya know? I DO NOT cause any trouble on Archaic, therefore there is no reason for the ban at all

Well, that's why I used the word 'perceived behavior'.

[MarkB]

I didn't even bother to read this garbage. This poll is very immature and unneccesary.

[Thallen]

Originally posted by MarkB
I didn't even bother to read this garbage. This poll is very immature and unneccesary.

Yeah, but the worse thing is the cute little FF6-vibe Thym gives the whole thing. I'm not so sure Thym is even totally clear about this whole matter, and how sensitive it is...

[MarkB]

Originally posted by Thallen

Yeah, but the worse thing is the cute little FF6-vibe Thym gives the whole thing. I'm not so sure Thym is even totally clear about this whole matter, and how sensitive it is...

I respected Tyhm a lot. I wouldnt have expected this from a Graal Admin.

[Darlene159]

Originally posted by MarkB

I respected Tyhm a lot. I wouldnt have expected this from a Graal Admin.

lol, MG and I would never have expected to be banned from a server from doing nothing either, but hey, what can ya do?

[skyler87]

Originally posted by Darlene159
lol, MG and I would never have expected to be banned from a server from doing nothing either, but hey, what can ya do?

I'll be damned if that wasn't verbal ownage

[Tyhm]

It's hard to take seriously two grown women having it out on a forum about which one's the liar. It was the equivalent of a Jerry Springer, thrown chairs and all. Yeah, I really don't like the idea that anyone was molesting anyone, but it's well-nigh impossible to prove anything on the internet as the common factor of all digital media is that it can be faked - recordings can be faked, screenshots, PM logs in particular. Maybe if I made a NPC that logs chat text for a minute when fired we'd have something, but then I'd find a GP was tampering with it someday. And then people would just be careful to say it in PMs instead, where I currently can't script such things.

So it IS silly, and was before I got here. Why NOT lighten it up with some irony? No sense taking seriously what's already irredeemably silly.

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu
If a person shows (him/her)self to be disruptive and unsuited to fair, friendly play then it's not unreasonable to ban him/her, regardless of where they displayed the behaviour.

On the other hand, if we allow bans to be based on personal judgement then we open the door for situations such as those already described in this thread. So it's not inherently wrong, but bad managers make it necessary to outlaw it.

I agree totally with you on this but in this case it doesn't apply to me for the simple fact I don't even have one second on the server and yet I am banned for the same reason Moonie is? Somehow the logic escapes me on that because anyone who pulls up my account on that server will see I have absolutely not one single sec of online time so where could I have disrupted , or harressed anyone if I wasn't even there?? Ehh just a thought , comments anyone??

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by MarkB
I didn't even bother to read this garbage. This poll is very immature and unneccesary.

So is banning someone that has never set foot on your server and yet I am banned on yours? Care to comment on that? Check my online time on your server and see what it says. I eargerly await your reply on this.

[ETD]

Originally posted by Milkdude99
I agree totally with you on this but in this case it doesn't apply to me for the simple fact I don't even have one second on the server and yet I am banned for the same reason Moonie is?

Ever think it might be an IP ban?

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by ETD

Ever think it might be an IP ban?

Eric it is an account ban , they took the account name off the Forum account , since I have never been on the server where would they get the IP from? They are not SuperMods here so they don't have access to peoples IP and I would have have to been on the server to get mine.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Darlene159
I hope you aren't implying that a person can be banned from a server based on where they act via forums, email, other chat program, anywhere else on the web. None of which are affiliated with Graal. I could probably understand actions on this forum being included, because this is part of Graal, but not anywhere else.

I already explained this. If somebody shows that they're a disruptive influence ingame, they are banned because the manager knows that the server is better off without them. If that manager already knows that he's a disruptive influence, it's logical to ban them before they even play.

BUT: read the whole post. I don't support this kind of policy in Graal, because it panders to corrupt managers.

As a sidenote, I was once banned from Bravo because I had prevented one of its managers (MysticalDragon) from ban evading on the forums.

[Thallen]

Originally posted by skyler87

I'll be damned if that wasn't verbal ownage

Then prance off and be damned. We don't need anyone adding fuel to the fire.

[Darlene159]

Originally posted by ETD

Ever think it might be an IP ban?

MG and I have seperate IP's

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Darlene159

MG and I have seperate IP's

Not on the forums...

[ETD]

Originally posted by Milkdude99
since I have never been on the server where would they get the IP from?

My point was that maybe they banned Moonie's IP
-_-
then if you 2 had the same IP address, you'd both be banned for the same reason...
in other words, maybe YOU were not banned, it just so happens that your IP falls within the same IP range as Moonie

[Darlene159]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


Not on the forums...

I believe the last number is different...anyway, it is a seperate ban because my ban ifo is different, it has a comment added from Knightress, now if they were both banned from an IP ban, wouldnt the ban info be exact?

[ETD]

Originally posted by Darlene159
I believe the last number is different...anyway, it is a seperate ban because my ban ifo is different, it has a comment added from Knightress, now if they were both banned from an IP ban, wouldnt the ban info be exact?

sorry, I was going based on what MG said...

Originally posted by Milkdude99
I am banned for the same reason Moonie is

I thought he ment that the ban reasons were exactly the same, which is why I thought it was an IP ban

and if only the last number is different, then they could have banned the whole IP range...

[Darlene159]

thought he ment that the ban reasons were exactly the same, which is why I thought it was an IP ban

Originally, the ban info was exactly the same, until Knightress added something to mine...I actually didnt even think of an IP ban

<<Edit>> I was just informed that when a person is IP banned, no ban info comes up, a decompression error, or a message saying the IP is banned comes up, so it isnt an IP ban<<Edit>>

[ETD]

Originally posted by Darlene159
<<Edit>> I was just informed that when a person is IP banned, no ban info comes up, a decompression error, or a message saying the IP is banned comes up, so it isnt an IP ban<<Edit>>

oh well, it was worth a shot
XD
I thought I was being clever or something
:P

[HoudiniMan]

Originally posted by Darlene159
I believe the last number is different...anyway, it is a seperate ban because my ban ifo is different, it has a comment added from Knightress, now if they were both banned from an IP ban, wouldnt the ban info be exact?

Are you sure this isn't your internal network if your two computers are sharing a broadband connection? I have two computers on my home network and the outside IP address for both is the same.

Yeah - we proved it wasn't an IP ban - but Kai said your IPs are identifcal, might be for that reason? If im right, knowing that might be useful in the future...

Just an afterthought - how did you set your IP ranges on your RCs for NP?

[Darlene159]

Originally posted by HoudiniMan


Are you sure this isn't your internal network if your two computers are sharing a broadband connection? I have two computers on my home network and the outside IP address for both is the same.

Yeah - we proved it wasn't an IP ban - but Kai said your IPs are identifcal, might be for that reason? If im right, knowing that might be useful in the future...

Just an afterthought - how did you set your IP ranges on your RCs for NP?

Very occassionally, the last number of our IP's change, I suppose it is possible that they be the same at times, I dont know. My IP only changes if there has been a power outage for a long period of time, which I suppose resets the modem or something. We use RoadRunner if that tells anyone anything. I put my entire IP on RC, only had to have it fixed maybe twice if that the whole time I was manager, I believe MG did also, I had to change his last number a couple of times. I dont exactly know what you mean by "outside IP" I get my IP by right clicking on the connection icon on the taskbar (WinXP).

oh well, it was worth a shot

Those of us that have never been IP banned wouldnt know what comes up I suppose, lol

[DustyPorViva]

I'd like to point out there may not be rules for ban reasons.

But there is a proper way to do the ban info.

Originally posted by Spark910
Bannings:

When you ban an account, for whatever reason, you should include the following information:

Reason for ban: Straight to the point, clear, reasonable banning reasons.
Date: The date of the ban
Staff who banned this account: For reasons of contact over possible wrongful banning.*
Contacts for staff who banned the account: e-mail, instant messenger**

In comments you should add any proof to support the ban, such as PM history.
* If a staff name is not included, the account may be unbanned straight away.
** You may add these to the comments of the account, for privacy.

This may not help, but I'd just thought I should bring it up.

[Darlene159]

Originally posted by DustyPorViva
I'd like to point out there may not be rules for ban reasons.

But there is a proper way to do the ban info.



This may not help, but I'd just thought I should bring it up.

Yea, I went back and read that.
2 things:
reasonable banning reasons. Nothing reasonable about it

In comments you should add any proof to support the ban, such as PM history. There is no proof on me, and MG has never been on the server.

lol, what proof can you come up with when you say "you are no longer welcome here, now or ever"?

Also, apparently they are suppose to be going by some sort of rules, like maybe the graal rules perhaps?

Staff who banned this account: For reasons of contact over possible wrongful banning.*

otherwise, what is the meaning of this part? How do you come up with what is right or wrong if there are no rules to follow?

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Darlene159
I believe the last number is different...

Well, that's true. But it's feasible that the banner would specify a range that includes both.

Of course, this is all academic. We've already establish that it wasn't an IP ban.

[marcoR]

*court scene*

Judge: please bring in the evil thug of doom, who killed 5 people. and the guy who also could have killed the people, but is wearing a suit, so we'll assume he didn't
*the convicts come in*
Guy of evil doom: I did it, and I'm proud of it
Business suit guy(lenny): why am I here..?
Judge: LENNY! IS THAT YOU!!!? WHY YOU LITTLE!! YOU STOLE MY LAST FRENCH FRY!!!
*smash hammer*
Judge:thirty years in a State pententary (I can't spell, woo hoo!)
Lenny: what, what! WHAT!? I DIDN'T KILL HIM!!!
Judge:hmm.. what? No, but you sure as heck stole my last fry you fry stealing cow mongerer
Lenny: THAT WAS 30 YEARS AGO!! and we're here on a murder charge!!!
Judge: I've heard enough of your lies, take em to jail boys, oh and evil convict who admitted to the murder of doom, you can go free, Infact I wouldn't mind seeing you more often.



you shouldn't make opinions.. if you're going to make biased ones XD

[Darlene159]

uh MarcoR...who are you talking to?

[superb]

Originally posted by Darlene159
Very occassionally, the last number of our IP's change, I suppose it is possible that they be the same at times, I dont know. My IP only changes if there has been a power outage for a long period of time, which I suppose resets the modem or something. We use RoadRunner if that tells anyone anything. I put my entire IP on RC, only had to have it fixed maybe twice if that the whole time I was manager, I believe MG did also, I had to change his last number a couple of times. I dont exactly know what you mean by "outside IP" I get my IP by right clicking on the connection icon on the taskbar (WinXP).

Okay, how is your network setup? Do you have one cable modem that is shared between your computers or do you have two separate cable modems? What Houdiniman means is that in a home network setup using one cable modem, the home network uses local IP addresses. Each one of your machines can have ANY IP you choose (though most people just use the standard 192.168.1.* setup for ease of configuration). When you access the internet through a home network, the node that requests internet access forwards the request to a router. The router receives the request and sends it to your cable modem which then fetches the content and sends it back to the router which then sends it back to you. In this setup, the router is known as a gateway because all internet access requests must first go through the router before going to the cable modem. The reason you do this is because cable modems are assigned an IP by your ISP (it could be static or dynamic, but it usually static). Since the modem is only assigned one IP, only one computer can use it at a time because two computers cannot share the same IP address. The router allieviates this problem by serving as a gateway to the cable modem. So the router is the only node assigned an internet IP. Keeping that in mind, all local computers will have the same internet IP since the router is the only node that is assigned one. If you have two cable modems, then each computer will have its own internet IP since each cable modem is assigned its own.

[Darlene159]

Originally posted by superb

Okay, how is your network setup? Do you have one cable modem that is shared between your computers or do you have two separate cable modems? What Houdiniman means is that in a home network setup using one cable modem, the home network uses local IP addresses. Each one of your machines can have ANY IP you choose (though most people just use the standard 192.168.1.* setup for ease of configuration). When you access the internet through a home network, the node that requests internet access forwards the request to a router. The router receives the request and sends it to your cable modem which then fetches the content and sends it back to the router which then sends it back to you. In this setup, the router is known as a gateway because all internet access requests must first go through the router before going to the cable modem. The reason you do this is because cable modems are assigned an IP by your ISP (it could be static or dynamic, but it usually static). Since the modem is only assigned one IP, only one computer can use it at a time because two computers cannot share the same IP address. The router allieviates this problem by serving as a gateway to the cable modem. So the router is the only node assigned an internet IP. Keeping that in mind, all local computers will have the same internet IP since the router is the only node that is assigned one. If you have two cable modems, then each computer will have its own internet IP since each cable modem is assigned its own.

One cable modem, with 3 cables running through a switch box to the modem...all I know is if you look at the IP on the computer, they are all different, and those are the IP's I used on RC, all 3 computers in my house have been used on RC. One MG's, one mine, and one is my daughters who was a GP Captain a long time ago. All IP's were different, that's all I know about the IP crap. So are you saying that the IP's are different on the computer, but they all run through an outside IP that is the same? or something like that.......

[superb]

Originally posted by Darlene159
One cable modem, with 3 cables running through a switch box to the modem...all I know is if you look at the IP on the computer, they are all different, and those are the IP's I used on RC, all 3 computers in my house have been used on RC. One MG's, one mine, and one is my daughters who was a GP Captain a long time ago. All IP's were different, that's all I know about the IP crap. So are you saying that the IP's are different on the computer, but they all run through an outside IP that is the same? or something like that.......

That switch box is actually a router. Those IPs on the computers are your local IP addresses. All three computers share the same internet IP in your case since they have to pass through the router to get access to the internet. And yes, the local IPs can be anything you want, but when you access an outside network like the internet, it uses the IP assigned to your cable modem from the ISP. Hence, MG and your IPs will be the same not only on these forums, but on Graal as well.

[-Ramirez-]

Feel free to slap me or whatever if this doesn't have a whole lot to do with what you're talking about. But... I have two computers using a single cable modem connected through a switch. Yet both computers have different EXTERNAL IP addresses. Their local IPs are also there, of course. From what I read (and no, I didn't read it all, so again, feel free to slap me), you seem to think that it's impossible for two computers to have a different external IP address through a single modem. My configuration seems to say otherwise.

[superb]

Originally posted by -Ramirez-
Feel free to slap me or whatever if this doesn't have a whole lot to do with what I'm talking about. But... I have two computers using a single cable modem connected through a switch. Yet both computers have different EXTERNAL IP addresses. Their local IPs are also there, of course. From what I read (and no, I didn't read it all, so again, feel free to slap me), you seem to think that it's impossible for two computers to have a different external IP address through a single modem. My configuration seems to say otherwise.

I wasn't saying it's impossible. I'm just going by a typical setup. Your ISP CAN assign more than one IP address to a single cable modem, but they typically don't do that. It does usually cost additional money for that. The reason they usually only assign one per modem is because they want you to buy cable modems for each machine you plan to have connected.

[-Ramirez-]

Even though you didn't state that anywhere in your post.

Oh, and I pay no extra money. Same price regardless of the number of computers.

[superb]

Originally posted by -Ramirez-
Even though you didn't state that anywhere in your post.

Oh, and I pay no extra money. Same price regardless of the number of computers.

Since situations like yours are generally not common practice, I didn't really feel the need to.

Same price regardless? There's gotta be a limit to that somewhere. They aren't gonna let you network 500 computers and completely take all their bandwidth without making you pay more money.

[Darlene159]

We pay extra for each computer hooked up monthly, maybe that pays for it's own IP? No clue, lol

[superb]

Originally posted by Darlene159
We pay extra for each computer hooked up monthly, maybe that pays for it's own IP? No clue, lol

If that is the case then maybe you don't use a router afterall.

[Milkdude99]

Ok I just got home so let me clear up the setup we have. No we don't have a router I opted against this because of the masking of the IP, what I have is a Linksys EtherFast 8 port Switch . The cable is hooked to the switch and all the comps are hooked up to the Switch. Now to keep from sharing the same 100mbps I pay $10 more per comp (which is 2 @ $10 = $20 extra a month) for their own separate IP address. This keeps it from sharing the same IP and acts like 3 connections instead of 1 , this way also we get 100 mbps on all connections instead of splitting it between the 3 and why I did this. So what it comes out to is $20 per month per comp for cable which is cheaper than dialup for each comp. $39.95 + $20 = $59.95 a month for cable. So what we get is cable for 3 comps at a rate cheaper than dialup cost , it was a cost cutting measure and a better way to do it in my opinion. True you do have to buy the switch but that is only around $30-40 and the savings over the last 4 years outweigh the initial cost of the switch.

[superb]

Originally posted by Milkdude99
Ok I just got home so let me clear up the setup we have. No we don't have a router I opted against this because of the masking of the IP, what I have is a Linksys EtherFast 8 port Switch . The cable is hooked to the switch and all the comps are hooked up to the Switch. Now to keep from sharing the same 100mbps I pay $10 more per comp (which is 2 @ $10 = $20 extra a month) for their own separate IP address. This keeps it from sharing the same IP and acts like 3 connections instead of 1 , this way also we get 100 mbps on all connections instead of splitting it between the 3 and why I did this. So what it comes out to is $20 per month per comp for cable which is cheaper than dialup for each comp. $39.95 + $20 = $59.95 a month for cable. So what we get is cable for 3 comps at a rate cheaper than dialup cost , it was a cost cutting measure and a better way to do it in my opinion. True you do have to buy the switch but that is only around $30-40 and the savings over the last 4 years outweigh the initial cost of the switch.

Okay, thanks for clearing that up. But the question remains...why is your IPs the same on the forums?