Question answered, thread closed. = New Rule

[Infernix]

We need to add to the list of fourm rules that when all questions are answered the thread is to be closed, just like the infractions thread. Dont you all think?

http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...t=69314&page=2

[Googi]

Either that or the moderators should stop pretending that it's a rule.

[konidias]

Yeah that's a tad extreme. Threads shouldn't be closed because the mod thinks all the questions have been answered... That's just being mod-happy there.

Who is really to judge when a thread has served it's purpose? I don't think even admins have the right to judge that. It's a forum made for communication and closing a thread for that reason is like cutting off communication.

It's the equivalent of hanging up someone's phone in the middle of the conversation because you think they've said everything there is to say. It's pretty rude if you ask me.

[Curt1zzle]

Originally Posted by konidias

Who is really to judge when a thread has served it's purpose?

its

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Curt1zzle

its

Excellent use of your 8hourly post, love.

[Devil]

Besides the point, if the thread stayed open for a few more days, people could ask more questions in that thread whether it's related to the topic at hand or not, instead of those players making multiple threads after that one has been closed originally.

[Darlene159]

Wow, you guys are going to make a big deal about a thread closer due to the question answered now?
lol, do you guys just look for things to complain about?

Nowhere did I say that a rule had been broken....nowhere.
The thread was simply closed because the question was answered, and the thread was only used to argue.

You guys really need to stop thinking that every single little thing that we do needs to be defined in the rules. The rules would be 10 miles long.

Stop constantly complaining.

[Demisis_P2P]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Wow, you guys are going to make a big deal about a thread closer due to the question answered now?
lol, do you guys just look for things to complain about?

Nowhere did I say that a rule had been broken....nowhere.
The thread was simply closed because the question was answered, and the thread was only used to argue.

You guys really need to stop thinking that every single little thing that we do needs to be defined in the rules. The rules would be 10 miles long.

Stop constantly complaining.

We could just as easily say 'stop constantly doing little things for us to complain about'

[Mykel]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Wow, you guys are going to make a big deal about a thread closer due to the question answered now?
lol, do you guys just look for things to complain about?

Nowhere did I say that a rule had been broken....nowhere.
The thread was simply closed because the question was answered, and the thread was only used to argue.

You guys really need to stop thinking that every single little thing that we do needs to be defined in the rules. The rules would be 10 miles long.

Stop constantly complaining.

It isn't argueing. It's debating. As long as no one insults anyone (in which case you would delete the post[s], not close the thread), it doesn't matter if the thread goes 1000 pages of repetitive discussion.

I think the reason you close those threads is because you don't want to have to read them and moderate them. Otherwise, what is one good reason to close it? Only one.

And try to use an un-bias point of view and look at "argueing" as you say as actual "conversation" that we are supposed to be allowed to be involved in on a forum.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Mykel

It isn't argueing. It's debating. As long as no one insults anyone (in which case you would delete the post[s], not close the thread), it doesn't matter if the thread goes 1000 pages of repetitive discussion.

I think the reason you close those threads is because you don't want to have to read them and moderate them. Otherwise, what is one good reason to close it? Only one.

And try to use an un-bias point of view and look at "argueing" as you say as actual "conversation" that we are supposed to be allowed to be involved in on a forum.

In case you haven't noticed, the rules of these forums are not debatable (which includes the infraction system which is obviously part of the rules which is why they are found in the Rules Forum!!). You either follow them, or you don't.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

and the thread was only used to argue.

Which isn't a rule violation.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by konidias

In my opinion you're not showing very much respect for these people who have a valid complaint.

This isn't a discussion or debate about a forum rule, because this isn't an actual forum rule. This is just you over-moderating things. There is no rule that says no more discussion is allowed when a thread's questions have been answered...

Your response shouldn't be to make a rule of it, your response should be to admit that it's a little over the top and give us a break. Nobody is going to give you a break until you ease up a bit. This is getting silly and I'm sure if you sit back and think about it, it's pretty silly to close threads for the reason you close them. Come on... really. I'm hoping you're mature enough to admit to your mistakes. Not just use the old "we aren't allowed to discuss it" excuse.

I doubt Unixmad told you directly that you have to close any thread that you FEEL has served it's initial purpose...

edit: Honestly I think all we're looking for is YOUR opinion of this. Not "we can't discuss it" or "I do what he wants". I think you're a pretty rational person and that you'd see that closing threads just so people will stop communicating is pretty irrational.

I closed the thread because the question had been answered. I suppose I did it as a way to organise the forums. Really, I don't see the big deal about closing a thread in which the question had been answered, and did not think it would be a big issue when I did it.
I don't mind explaining myself, really I don't, but I do not want to have to argue with members for pages and pages withing a thread, or in multiple areas on the forum, repeating myself constantly on the same issue.

It would be stupid to make a rule stating that when questions in threads are answered, the thread is closed. That is a moderators decision, not a rule. How would this rule be broken? It can't be, therefore it wouldn't be a rule.

In normal circumstances, it probably wouldn't have been a big deal to leave the thread open, but considering the few angry members who are angry with the infraction system will use any excuse, or any opening to start up their rant again, another reason it was closed, but it was closed mostly just simply because the question was answered, and why should I have to continually give infractions, and remove posts from people who use the thread as an opening for attacks, when the question had been answered?

I don't like giving infractions, or warnings, so I guess that was on my mind also when closing the thread. Wanting to prevent having to give members infractions.

Originally Posted by Googi

Which isn't a rule violation.

Actually, it is.

Originally Posted by From Forum Rules

i.) When in a forum discussion if you provoke another user into an ‘insultive/flame argument’ rather than a discussion you will be warned/banned for doing so. You can express a disagreement with someone, without attacking them. If you reply to someone provoking you to insult/harass/attack the user who provoked you, then you too will be warned/banned. You shouldn’t return the attack, just report to a mod via forum PM for it to be looked at.

Keep in mind that there is a difference between debating, and people getting angry and getting insultive.

[Googi]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Keep in mind that there is a difference between debating, and people getting angry and getting insultive.

There is no rule against arguing. Rule I does not ban arguing.

[konidias]

Originally Posted by Googi

There is no rule against arguing. Rule I does not ban arguing.

People are always going to argue... Especially when there is so much to argue about. I don't see how it can possibly be moderated. There would probably be far less arguing if it wasn't.

[zim5354]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I suppose I did it as a way to organise the forums.

They are not only yours, your not the only person that paied for them if I want to post on a topic thats not out of hand (that one wasnt) or if I want to contribute to the awnser a closed topic does no good now does it?

Originally Posted by Darlene159

That is a moderators decision, not a rule.

We need a rule that states that moderators cannot MAKE UP THE RULES AS THEY GO. if you want to avoid this just inforce the rules that are actually written down http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...ad.php?t=64922 there.

Originally Posted by Darlene159

the few angry members who are angry with the infraction system will use any excuse, or any opening to start up their rant again.

Its not the system its how its inforced. When two people basically decide whats wrong or right it differs from person to person you know...Not to mention they have been getting handed out like candy.

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Keep in mind that there is a difference between debating, and people getting angry and getting insultive.

Thing is what you and your other mod palls view as insulting (No naming people in the topic or your post is deleted kk?) is normal to everyone else.

[QUOTE=Darlene159;1229623]There is no rule against arguing per say. There is nothing at all wrong with people disagreeing with each other.
/QUOTE]
How come so many of my freakin post were deleted then for "arguing" please refer to the rules next time.

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Unixmad puts it, makes the forums an unfriendly place, which he clearly does not want.

This makes the fourms unfriendly when someone sees it and thinks of prison camp "Gee I really wana subscribe to prison camp."

[konidias]

zim, it's "enforce" lol.

I just think MoonGoddess in particular is over the top with the rules. This is just my opinion and here is what I think should actually be done in the following situations:

1. one or two people start arguing in a thread and taking it off topic but some others are still discussing things

- what NOT to do (ie, Darlene's way): close the thread

- what to do: reply to the thread with a warning that those people are getting out of hand and punishment will occur if they continue. if they do continue, then punish them. do not punish everyone in the thread by closing it.

2. someone says something remotely insulting to someone else

- what NOT to do (ie, Darlene's way): delete the post and warn the person who made it

- what to do: leave it alone! if the person being "insulted" really feels that bothered by it, let them PM you and then you can deal with it. don't just instantly delete anything that vaguely resembles an insult.

3. someone posts a negative opinion about a rule or the way the forums are being run

- what NOT to do (ie, Darlene's way): tell them to deal with it because "the rules are the rules" or give the excuse that "I'm doing whatever Unixmad tells me to do". or the other option, of just deleting/closing the thread so the issue is not resolved. or the other option of telling them to make a support ticket or post in the support forum or some other nonsense.

- what to do: try to see things from the poster's point of view. apologize for any inconvenience you may have caused (these are the customers for crying out loud, don't argue with them) try to change how you do things so that people won't complain so much. if you feel it's not in your power to make a change, then talk to unixmad or someone who can do something about it. do not adapt a "the customer doesn't have a say, it's unixmads way or no way" policy

edit: a proper way to handle my post would not be to argue with me about it. the best thing to do would be to simply acknowledge it. you just said you don't want to argue, so don't. but that also doesn't mean "well I don't want to argue so, THREAD CLOSED!"

[Devil]

Haha, this is never going to end.

[konidias]

Okay wow, now this is starting to become intolerable even for me, and I've been trying to accept everything so far.

Darlene, judging by your sig I'm guessing you don't respect yourself. Because you sure aren't respecting the people of this forum right now.

This is not some "silly little thing". You do it a lot and it's annoying people a lot. Even ME, and I could care less about the other things people harass you about. But closing threads because questions were answered?

I agree with Mykel. Let us have our 1000 pages of repetitive discussion if we want. Who is it really hurting? Why are you ending people's conversations for them? Are you going to end this thread abruptly by closing it as well?

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by konidias

Darlene, judging by your sig I'm guessing you don't respect yourself. Because you sure aren't respecting the people of this forum right now.

No need at all to get personal. I do not lack repect either for myself, or others.

I agree with Mykel. Let us have our 1000 pages of repetitive discussion if we want. Who is it really hurting? Why are you ending people's conversations for them? Are you going to end this thread abruptly by closing it as well?

Why do I have to keep repeating myself?
Unixmad does not want forum rule discussion/debates on the forums. He has told me this. Why not go to him with this question? I don't own these forums, therefore I do what he wants. Why is that so hard to understand? I have typed this so many times that I think my fingers might bleed.

[konidias]

In my opinion you're not showing very much respect for these people who have a valid complaint.

This isn't a discussion or debate about a forum rule, because this isn't an actual forum rule. This is just you over-moderating things. There is no rule that says no more discussion is allowed when a thread's questions have been answered...

Your response shouldn't be to make a rule of it, your response should be to admit that it's a little over the top and give us a break. Nobody is going to give you a break until you ease up a bit. This is getting silly and I'm sure if you sit back and think about it, it's pretty silly to close threads for the reason you close them. Come on... really. I'm hoping you're mature enough to admit to your mistakes. Not just use the old "we aren't allowed to discuss it" excuse.

I doubt Unixmad told you directly that you have to close any thread that you FEEL has served it's initial purpose...

edit: Honestly I think all we're looking for is YOUR opinion of this. Not "we can't discuss it" or "I do what he wants". I think you're a pretty rational person and that you'd see that closing threads just so people will stop communicating is pretty irrational.

[WanDaMan]

Just make a new thread for each new question or comment on the rules if they're being closed after it's being answered :O

[WanDaMan]

You can't win eitherway. Loop hole?

[Infernix]

Well I certainly use other fourms other than graal fourms and I have to say. Last I heard a moderators job was to make sure rules were followed. When a rule is not broken a moderator has no right to step it. So in this case I believe that Moonie had no right to even touch the thread.

And Im srry Moonie if you cant admit your mistakes, your nothing but the George Bush of GraalOnline fourms.
I would rlly appreciate it and Im sure others would to if you would just stop making opinionated and rash decisions. Maybe check up on other popular fourms around the net and see how they do it.

[Skyld]

Originally Posted by Infernix

Well I certainly use other fourms other than graal fourms and I have to say. Last I heard a moderators job was to make sure rules were followed. When a rule is not broken a moderator has no right to step it. So in this case I believe that Moonie had no right to even touch the thread.

And Im srry Moonie if you cant admit your mistakes, your nothing but the George Bush of GraalOnline fourms.

If you're going to say something, make it constructive and sensible. Otherwise, do not say it, okay?

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Infernix

your nothing but the George Bush of GraalOnline fourms.

Perfect example of why so many discussions don't work on the Graal forums. It is people like you that ruin it for the rest....

[Infernix]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Perfect example of why so many discussions don't work on the Graal forums. It is people like you that ruin it for the rest....

It was a Metaphor, please act your age. I didnt ruin anything infact I started this thread so its pretty obvious I started somthing. Will it do any good, I dont know its up to you.

Comparing you to George Bush was actually me trying to make you think about your "mistakes" and how they eventually start to add up... Sorry if you took it as a huge insult. Just dont understand why you pretend just like Bush that you have not made any mistakes and that a multiple of people are just crazy.

Ya know last I heard saying "My Bad" or sorry always helped.

Originally Posted by Stephen

Excellent use of your 8hourly post, love.

They are unlimited for everyone now.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Infernix

Ya know last I heard saying "My Bad" or sorry always helped.

Of course, that is why I have said it many times.

[The Evil Within]

Originally Posted by Infernix

It was a Metaphor, please act your age. I didnt ruin anything infact I started this thread so its pretty obvious I started somthing. Will it do any good, I dont know its up to you.

Comparing you to George Bush was actually me trying to make you think about your "mistakes" and how they eventually start to add up... Sorry if you took it as a huge insult. Just dont understand why you pretend just like Bush that you have not made any mistakes and that a multiple of people are just crazy.

Ya know last I heard saying "My Bad" or sorry always helped.


They are unlimited for everyone now.

You compared her to Bush, of coarse she is going to take it as an insult. Hell I'd kill someone for doing that to me.

[Tyhm]

Suggestion:
Yeah, let's close a thread when the original question's answered, and split it off into new threads for new major questions. Or, list a specific exception to the No Thread Necromancy rule about starting a new thread about a closed one's topic.

'cuz yeah, I was reading that, I wanted to respond. I dig that closing threads would make navigation easier, as every thread will actually be about its topic instead of having to find the Hubworld idea under the Free Classic thread...*shameless self-promotion*

[Mykel]

Still waiting...

[The Evil Within]

You guys should go to: forums.delteria.com

Its a rarity to have a thread closed there. No holds barred conversation about either Graal, or just total nonsense, and you don't have to worry about ****ty rules being enforced by ****ty mods. I'm not taking a side here, I don't even know what thread was closed or why it was closed, I'm just saying that if you are complaining about being modded so much, go to the forums where mods barely exist.

Or you guys could just revolt and make your own "Graal Forums" and leave them completely 100% unmodded.

Ya can't really complain about what Darlene is doing though. There are rules that she has to follow to mod these boards, if you want looser rules, then ya gotta go to different boards.

~Fin

[Mykel]

Originally Posted by The Evil Within

You guys should go to: forums.delteria.com

Its a rarity to have a thread closed there. No holds barred conversation about either Graal, or just total nonsense, and you don't have to worry about ****ty rules being enforced by ****ty mods. I'm not taking a side here, I don't even know what thread was closed or why it was closed, I'm just saying that if you are complaining about being modded so much, go to the forums where mods barely exist.

Or you guys could just revolt and make your own "Graal Forums" and leave them completely 100% unmodded.

Ya can't really complain about what Darlene is doing though. There are rules that she has to follow to mod these boards, if you want looser rules, then ya gotta go to different boards.

~Fin

Actually, people did make other forums. But, as with anything that rivals power of the Admins, discussion of it is not allowed. I wouldn't be surprised if your post is deleted either, just because you are contradicting them (although not really).

[The Evil Within]

Originally Posted by Mykel

Actually, people did make other forums. But, as with anything that rivals power of the Admins, discussion of it is not allowed. I wouldn't be surprised if your post is deleted either, just because you are contradicting them (although not really).

I don't see why my post would be deleted, I'm pretty sure that other Graal servers are allowed to promote their websites/forums on these boards. I've seen Maloria and Npulse do it before and those posts weren't deleted. :o

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Mykel

Actually, people did make other forums. But, as with anything that rivals power of the Admins, discussion of it is not allowed. I wouldn't be surprised if your post is deleted either, just because you are contradicting them (although not really).

I explained that situation to you in forum PM's I believe. Don't bring it up here. Graal related sites are allowed.

[Mykel]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I explained that situation to you in forum PM's I believe. Don't bring it up here. Graal related sites are allowed.

I wasn't debating what the rule was, simply telling him that a "alternative Graal Online" site was already created, because he suggested creating one.

[Darlene159]

zim5354, I already said that I am not arguing about the rules anymore.
End.

[Mykel]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

zim5354, I already said that I am not arguing about the rules anymore.
End.

I haven't asked you to discuss the rules once. I've asked you to discuss non-rules being enforced. And you haven't. Why must you ignore me?

[Infernix]

Ya know.....if your gonna force the rules down the throats of the users of these fourms, its kinda no surprise that we come back at you trying to force you to do your job by the book.

[Mykel]

Maybe you guys don't understand that your only form of advertisement is us.

Also, would someone answer my damn questions from pages ago? Sam and Darlene had picked at other users who have said easy things to talk about. I was justification.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Mykel

Maybe you guys don't understand that your only form of advertisement is us.

Also, would someone answer my damn questions from pages ago? Sam and Darlene had picked at other users who have said easy things to talk about. I was justification.

I am not going to repeat myself a million times on one subject. I have answered questions on the rule subject so many times, that it isnt even funny. How many ways can the same question be asked, and how many ways can the same question be answered? In the long run, it doesn't even matter because if it is not the answer you want to hear, then the question has not been answered.
I will say again: The rules are the rules. Follow them, or don't post. Simple.
And stop making a 20 page big deal on the closing of a thread in which a question was answered, that just makes no sense at all.