The Fine Line - The Limit of Roleplaying

[MasterNuke]

I'm concerned that with all this RP enforcement. Will we be going overboard on RPing? There is a point where RPing isn't enjoyable. Along with enforcement on RPing, there should be a good amount of non-RP things to do as well. As a main server, shouldn't we be trying to please everyone instead of just the RPers?

[Gambet]

Is it really that hard to use OOC brackets whenever you speak and you are not in character?

I mean if you speak out of OOC brackets, then you are obviously in character, so you SHOULD be RPing.

It's a matter of laziness.

[Debaglio]

Originally Posted by Gambet

Is it really that hard to use OOC brackets whenever you speak and you are not in character?

I mean if you speak out of OOC brackets, then you are obviously in character, so you SHOULD be RPing.

It's a matter of laziness.

I am glad I finally got into your skull.

[DrkXFactr]

Originally Posted by Debaglio

I am glad I finally got into your skull.

LOL? Do you even pay attention to what YOU do?

http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...30#post1079630

Look at the SS's there, Etien. I don't think I've ever even seen you use OOC brackets. Lol.. good stuff.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by Gambet

Is it really that hard to use OOC brackets whenever you speak and you are not in character?

Equally: Is it really that important?

[Curt1zzle]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Equally: Is it really that important?

Yes. Or some other type of hint to distinguish between the two states.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by Curt1zzle

Yes. Or some other type of hint to distinguish between the two states.

Isn't it usually obvious from context and content?

[Curt1zzle]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Isn't it usually obvious from context and content?

Usually.

But in the case of a common question or inquiry such as "What are you doing?" , "Who are you talking about?", "Who is that?", or "When did that happen?"...it's not so blatant.

(Those are just a few scenarios I can think up at the moment.)

[Zero Hour]

Yea, I wouldn't want to see GK turn into a Valikloria, or however you spell it.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Zero Hour

Yea, I wouldn't want to see GK turn into a Valikloria, or however you spell it.

Depends on which Valikorlia you're talking about. The one from 2003 owned GK anyday.

[Curt1zzle]

Originally Posted by MasterNuke

I'm concerned that with all this RP enforcement. Will we be going overboard on RPing? There is a point where RPing isn't enjoyable. Along with enforcement on RPing, there should be a good amount of non-RP things to do as well. As a main server, shouldn't we be trying to please everyone instead of just the RPers?

I don't think we are. RP is the only thing keeping Kingdoms alive right now.

We all know we don't play it for its stunning maps and ongoing additions to gameplay.

[zell12]

Haha who made up the stupid rule forcing people to roleplay? You have to make them want to do it themselves; you just can't force everyone to roleplay. GK just isn't enjoyable anymore, and I don't think this is going to help.

[Gambet]

Kai:

We did not make these rules. These have been the role playing rules since like the dawn of role playing on Graal. OOC brackets have been around for quite some time. This should not be new to you.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by Gambet

We did not make these rules

You are advocating them. Why?

This should not be new to you

...

So we should enforce this rule because it's really old? That's your argument?

[Gambet]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

You are advocating them. Why?



...

So we should enforce this rule because it's really old? That's your argument?

We will enforce them because they make sense and they are quite fair rules. When you are OOC, you use OOC brackets (()). When you are IC, you don't use OOC brackets. It's a perfect way of indicating if you are OOC or IC. It's also very useful.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by Gambet

We will enforce them because they make sense

Right, but you're just substituting arguments for assertions again. I'll agree that the brackets can sometimes be useful, but how is it beneficial to force people into using them at all times?

[Gambet]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Right, but you're just substituting arguments for assertions again. I'll agree that the brackets can sometimes be useful, but how is it beneficial to force people into using them at all times?

How is it beneficial? Have you been around GK at all anytime soon? I'm assuming you have not. Players speak IC when they should be using OOC brackets (meaning what they are saying is not part of their character). OOC brackets is a good way to teach players how to learn how to properly role play. It's a method of teaching. Not using OOC brackets would rather be a more advanced form of role playing.

[Draenin]

I don't see why the RP team is a big deal. It's not like you're going to get punished for not being in character. If you don't want to be in character, don't. We just encourage the use of double-parinthetical notation in those instances if you choose to RP heavily. The RP team was made to try and kick-start active roleplaying back to itself, not to say something along the lines of, "OMG yuo is nat RPing so yu gets the jail!"

Think of us as a group of folks who like to have our own unique personas and would like to encourage others to do so as well so that GK can get a bit more interesting.

[Draenin]

Nice double post. You are missing his point.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by Draenin

Nice double post

Is there anything inherently wrong with double-posting?

You are missing his point.

No, you're missing mine! Checkmate!

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

No, you're missing mine! Checkmate!

Is your use of checkmate a lamer version of owned or something?

[Googi]

Originally Posted by MasterNuke

I'm concerned that with all this RP enforcement. Will we be going overboard on RPing? There is a point where RPing isn't enjoyable. Along with enforcement on RPing, there should be a good amount of non-RP things to do as well. As a main server, shouldn't we be trying to please everyone instead of just the RPers?

I don't think it'll be too strict. The biggest hardliner on the team is probably Gambet, and even then it's not too bad.

[Googi]

You know, this wouldn't be a problem if there was actually a set of RPing rules.

[Draenin]

Wow. I miss a few hours and the post count in this topic explodes. Kaim, if you don't like RPing, that's great. Shut up about it. We're not going to force you into using brackets or not using brackets if you don't want to. *Glares at Gambet* Quit making this such a struggle, both of you. The administration is going to exist, and it is comprised of people who were selected because they were recommended for their abilities. We plan on using our abilities to try and get things rolling on GK again in terms of character development for those who are not so uptight. If you don't like to dance, just be a wallflower. "Checkmate," mate. *snickers*

[Splke]

Originally Posted by Draenin

Wow. I miss a few hours and the post count in this topic explodes. Kaim, if you don't like RPing, that's great. Shut up about it. We're not going to force you into using brackets or not using brackets if you don't want to. *Glares at Gambet* Quit making this such a struggle, both of you. The administration is going to exist, and it is comprised of people who were selected because they were recommended for their abilities. We plan on using our abilities to try and get things rolling on GK again in terms of character development for those who are not so uptight. If you don't like to dance, just be a wallflower. "Checkmate," mate. *snickers*

<<... You're about to get slammed into a wall thousands of time for that one, dudez.

Oh, and honestly.. the only problem I have with the "RP Team" is the people (so far I've seen) who are part of it, that being Draenin and Gambet. That's pretty pathetic lol

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by Draenin

Kaim, if you don't like RPing, that's great

Don't be an idiot. This isn't a matter of liking RPing, it's a matter of knowing how to do it properly. You want to inundate people with *****ic rules that only obstruct something that should be fundamentally free-form. And why? So that you can appear to be doing something? So you can pat yourself on the back and say you did a good job? Your problem isn't something that can be solved so trivially, and you're completely ignoring the bigger issues.

The administration is going to exist, and it is comprised of people who were selected because they were recommended for their abilities

Hell, man. You could take any player and eventually find somebody that would recommend him. Doesn't really prove much.

Originally Posted by Butz

I think we should be focusing on encouraging roleplay by making it interesting and somewhat easy for people to get into, not by becoming the RP secret police and breathing down players' necks. Here to help RP to exist by teaching and participating, not here to force it.

Aha. At least one of you has the right idea.

[Butz]

The entire team hasn't had a chance to meet yet, so I can't say anything definitive, but I think we should be focusing on encouraging roleplay by making it interesting and somewhat easy for people to get into, not by becoming the RP secret police and breathing down players' necks. Here to help RP to exist by teaching and participating, not here to force it.

[busyrobot]

Just to point out: use of OOC brackets is not a rule for RPing, its a rule for not RPing and they get way overused. I find when people think its okay to disrupt the flow of an RP event to make a "look at me" joke in ((oocs)) its more distracting than not using brackets at all.

Overall I support their use, but I support actually roleplaying during the day instead of using them more, and only using them in an event to convey info needed in game that cannot be said IC. When no one in a group is roleplaying, but are on tag the lack of use them doesn't cause any problems in my opinion.

If roleplaying is to thrive, there has to be rp continuity. If you travel to Samurai while your kingdom is at war with them, oocs make no difference if the two sentries you run into just say ((dumb retard noobs get tf off if u wer in bmode youd be dead)). I am not saying Samurai is like that now (I haven't played for more than 20 minutes in months) but if you are serious about reviving RP you need rules to handle continuity in a fair way.

[Draenin]

Just to point out: use of OOC brackets is not a rule for RPing, its a rule for not RPing and they get way overused. I find when people think its okay to disrupt the flow of an RP event to make a "look at me" joke in ((oocs)) its more distracting than not using brackets at all.

Thank you. I don't feel they need to necessarily be enforced either. Argo, don't even talk like you know who I am. You've never even spoken to me, aside from on the forums. I have other stuff to post, but not here and now, and not dealing with you, Argo, so don't get defensive.

[Splke]

Originally Posted by Draenin

Argo, don't even talk like you know who I am. You've never even spoken to me, aside from on the forums. I have other stuff to post, but not here and now, and not dealing with you, Argo, so don't get defensive.

I know there are better candidates than you. You're the one getting defensive :0

[Gambet]

Our intentions are not to be extremely strict, as Val is. It seems the main goal is to bring back role playing to the server and to the kingdoms, and that is what we will try to do. No one alone will make any decisions, but rather all of our decisions are to be made as a team. Six minds are a lot greater then one, so we will all have to sit down and converse on basically everything (role playing wise atleast).

We are not GP's. Our intentions are not to punish. We will teach players how to role play and hopefully role playing can become more active on GK.

[Draenin]

Don't be an idiot. This isn't a matter of liking RPing, it's a matter of knowing how to do it properly. You want to inundate people with *****ic rules that only obstruct something that should be fundamentally free-form. And why? So that you can appear to be doing something? So you can pat yourself on the back and say you did a good job? Your problem isn't something that can be solved so trivially, and you're completely ignoring the bigger issues.

Since when have I been churning out rules? As far as I know, all I have been talking about is what our purpose will be. Shawn and I have spoken with Gambet, who seems to be wanting to make quite a few over-the-top rules. We are not missing out on the 'bigger issues.' We have been told what to focus on, and I will ensure that we stay focused.

Hell, man. You could take any player and eventually find somebody that would recommend him. Doesn't really prove much.

We were picked not only by other people who knew us, but also by Sam himself. True, anyone could do it, but it just so happens that we are.

Aha. At least one of you has the right idea.

Actually, three of us have that idea as far as I know. Only one of us doesn't. It's okay though. We will try to get things with Gam--er... the team, straightened out.

You're the one getting defensive :0

Perhaps, but you've done your best to try to take down a lot of stuff I say on the forums.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by Draenin

Since when have I been churning out rules?

So you think that use of parentheses should not be mandatory? In that case, we agree with one another. We have the same opinion! So why are you saying that my disagreements with Gambet imply that I don't want to roleplay? Did you even read the things I said?

We were picked not only by other people who knew us, but also by Sam himself

I don't think that's a name you should be proud to drop.

Also: When quoting posts, please indicate who you're actually quoting.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

Also: When quoting posts, please indicate who you're actually quoting.

Yeah, I've kind of been noticing that too. I'll be sure to do that. =) It sparks from laziness.

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

So why are you saying that my disagreements with Gambet imply that I don't want to roleplay?

Because when Gambet argues, I get a tremendous headache and I have to run to the kitchen for caffeine or something to make my headache go away. We see things on the same level. I dunno if Gambet does. He has the tendency to complicate things. Butz and I have learned this well. So yeah.. I kind of get confused about things he talks about.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by Draenin

Because when Gambet argues, I get a tremendous headache and I have to run to the kitchen for caffeine or something to make my headache go away

Then insult him, not me.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by Draenin

We're not going to force you into using brackets or not using brackets if you don't want to. *Glares at Gambet*

He does not take hints well.

[Gambet]

Hey, I never take the easy way out of things. And this whole ordeal between Kai and myself has been going on for quite some time.


But, anyways, there will always be someone who doesn't agree with you on things. If you just go about insulting him all around the place, well then that will just lead to problems. I do believe the first thing I said was that since we're a team, we should not throw any insults to anyone in the team at all. It seems that you, Drae, forget things quite quickly. My ideas are not "complicated" if you would sit back and listen. It seems that since I'm not at the same "level" with you, you wouldn't hear out anything I have to say since I don't agree with you.


But, hey, that's cool. There are four others.

Hey, something I learned from Kai :

If someone doesn't agree with you on something, rather then insulting them, which gets you no-where, state your views and support them, let them state their views and support them, and then you can converse the both point of views and come up with a solution.


(or something like that =P)

Originally Posted by Draenin

He does not take hints well.

Oh, I understood your "hint", but I chose not to address it. I'd rather not have problems with my fellow teammates, since the whole team is about teamwork. So, say what you want about me, but keep the comments on a private level.

[Draenin]

Gambet, you are rushing ahead of things far too quickly. We have not discussed any rules regarding brackets or whatnot, and you are throwing your ideas out like frisbees on a California beach. If you want to keep arguing with Kai, do it on your own time. Don't bring your unapproved ideas onto the forum to get folks uptight about the RP Team when we haven't even had our first meeting yet. I could throw the ideas you discussed onto here, but I am kind enough not to do so. Except maybe one, since you decided to say this:

Originally Posted by Gambet

My ideas are not "complicated" if you would sit back and listen.

I suppose the idea of making areas like buildings, dungeons, etc. IC areas and forcing people to roleplay when they're in them isn't complicated, huh? I bet half of GK would just love that. Nothing better than going into trade, forgetting brackets, and being pilloried. Makes my day anyday.

Originally Posted by Gambet

I do believe the first thing I said was that since we're a team, we should not throw any insults to anyone in the team at all.

By "we" you mean me. Don't mask it. And the first thing you discussed was the roleplaying guide with Butz. Remember the second thing? Something about Debug. Don't make me go into it, or I can get you into more trouble than you anticipated.

Oh, and don't act like the RP Team is behind everything you say. As Gryffon has said to me, "It's fine if he prefaces it with 'It's just my opinion but' but not 'The RP Team thinks that'."

[Gambet]

Originally Posted by Draenin

Gambet, you are rushing ahead of things far too quickly. We have not discussed any rules regarding brackets or whatnot, and you are throwing your ideas out like frisbees on a California beach. If you want to keep arguing with Kai, do it on your own time. Don't bring your unapproved ideas onto the forum to get folks uptight about the RP Team when we haven't even had our first meeting yet. I could throw the ideas you discussed onto here, but I am kind enough not to do so. Except maybe one, since you decided to say this:


I suppose the idea of making areas like buildings, dungeons, etc. IC areas and forcing people to roleplay when they're in them isn't complicated, huh? I bet half of GK would just love that. Nothing better than going into trade, forgetting brackets, and being pilloried. Makes my day anyday.

Butz came up with a better solution that I do believe we all agreed on. I love when people do this....use old references in arguments, when they have already been cleared. Happens a lot lately.

Originally Posted by Draenin

By "we" you mean me. Don't mask it. And the first thing you discussed was the roleplaying guide with Butz. Remember the second thing? Something about Debug. Don't make me go into it, or I can get you into more trouble than you anticipated.

By "we" I mean the team. You wouldn't like it very much if the team was talking behind your back, now would you? That's not much of a team. A team is not a team if we have an outcast. There will always be disagreements, but as a team we need to hear all disagreements out and come up with a better solution. Thus, the art of teamwork!

Originally Posted by Draenin

Oh, and don't act like the RP Team is behind everything you say. As Gryffon has said to me, "It's fine if he prefaces it with 'It's just my opinion but' but not 'The RP Team thinks that'."

I don't act like anyone is behind me. OOC brackets have been around forever. The OOC brackets rules have also been around forever. Until we, the team, come up with better rules to replace them, then they will have to still be used in the future.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally Posted by Gambet

I don't act like anyone is behind me. OOC brackets have been around forever. The OOC brackets rules have also been around forever. Until we, the team, come up with better rules to replace them, then they will have to still be used in the future.

1) How exactly do you intend to enforce them?
2) You seem to be arguing that a bad rule can only be removed if a better one can be identified?