A Time for Change

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by GryffonDurime

We both know things that the other dosen't, and this in itself is the greatest flaw with the entire logical concept of human communication

That is like me saying 'I listend for 5 minutes, and I did hear a noise' and you saying 'I listend for 50 minutes earlier, and I heard none, I think you are mistaken'

All in all, it is yet one more tangent unrelated to this thread.

[falco10291029]

Wow *ignores dumb sidetopic that brewed* Wren I didnt know you too long but I wil still miss you nonetheless and it will take me a little while to get used to this fact :-/ Sorry for the constant bugging and such i tended to do and thanks for working me through rping and getting me through my times as an immigrant.

Foitisian Cris Felko

[Nappa]

[QUOTE=busyrobot]This is the whole point 'already stated' being the operative part of the statement, it is not worth yet again rehashing.

Everyone who disliked the term basically took it up with Zen at the time the Constitition and whole Republic was born.

That was a very long time ago that debate started, and died.


If you don't like it, leave Zormite over it. Oh wait, you aren't in zormite.
Time to move on to other topics then. QUOTE]

Basically you are saying anything that was debated before and ended should never be questioned, and if you are not in a kingdom, do not point out its flaws ? That's stupid.

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by Nappa

Basically you are saying anything that was debated before and ended should never be questioned, and if you are not in a kingdom, do not point out its flaws ? That's stupid.

Just not in every single thread

[LordZen]

Did you know that in the United States, if no presidential candidate receives the required minimum of electoral votes, than the Senate gets to choose the winner of the presidential election?

Did you also know that whenever the Senate is split 50/50, the sitting Vice President gets to cast the tie breaking vote? So in effect, if the Vice President is running for President for the comming 4 years, he could vote himself into power?

No system is perfect.

Also if both the President and Vice President were unable to lead the country, be it death, resignation, or some sort of illness, isnt the 3rd in line the Speaker of the House? I'm probably wrong, but its either that or a Cabinet member.

The point is, none of those people under the President and Vice President were voted into that presidential position of leadership or ever expected to have to lead the country at some point...but there always has to be some sort of line of secession to insure that some one is designated to run the country if something ubruptly causes the nation's highest office to become vaccant between election periods.

A monarch is a sovereign who inherits their power by birth rite, and being of royal blood.

In the Zormite Republic's case, the senior official of the ruling party becomes the "Dictator" of the nation, governing through party ideology. It can be justly construed that the constitution preferably favors a direct offspring of the former leader to take their place because that individual would be least likely to have ulterior conflicting motives against the party or their own parent. This is also why it is left partially open ended, to include less direct family members if need be to avoid obvious issues. Also, the family member who inherits the office could just as quickly be replaced if the ruling party loses its supremacy.

Every nation who operates as a republic has their own flavor of it. No two governments are perfectly identical. This is simply how the early leaders of the Zormite Republic chose to handle the country's line of secession between election periods.

Additionally, it would probably make more sense to those who are unaware if they knew the story behind the beginnings of the Republic. Basically, the country fell into a sort of anarchy, from general fear of instability and revolution. There was so much panic caused by the fear of revolution, that the Emperor basically forfeited his right to rule the land and allowed for a new government to be structured from the ground up. A bloodless Revolution, I suppose.

But at any rate, the only visionaries that had their stuff together early on was a group of Loyalists, who supported the former royal bloodline. Infact, they named their political ideology after the royal family's last name: Archigos; and after becoming more ogranized formed the National Archist Party of Zormite, or NAPZ. And obviously, they had a hand in drafting the new constitution. Its that party's choice to want a member of the former royal family to be the leader of their party. So as long as NAPZ was able to remain the ruling party, through consent of the people, they in effect accomplish a secondary goal which was to preserve the monarchy in some form, but in a modernized, more stable architecture of government.

So NAPZ, a party supporting the former royal family, had a hand in influencing how the line of seccesion was to be played out according to the consitution, but understand that the same constitutional principle would apply even if another party managed to gain control of the country (with a senior official having no royal relations).

The government is wholy structured properly as a Republic, regardless of whether or not Zormite's is a common flavor in the real world.

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by Lance

I've already stated my feelings on the matter of the name.

'Republic' is by definition not fitting.

You know, definition 1a of 'republic' from dictionary.com...

Synonym of Monarch; Dictator. I already explained that on this forum but the post was deleted.

Originally Posted by Padren

a) Dustari did not vote, during times when leadership has been called into question, we have held votes to clarify what people want, out of character.

'Some sort of voting' != voting.

Originally Posted by Padren

Each kingdom is a group of people who RP

'But that's the diff' - Quote from Ana on-tag. RP, you said? I guess not. The leader apparently can't follow the kingdom's own rules. And now you'll come up with some crap that she's the leader and stands above them

Originally Posted by Padren

If the people in Zormite are happy with the Republic (talking to both of you, GZ and Nappa) then that should be well enough.

Which some are not.

Originally Posted by Padren

GoZelda, back when you were in Zormite and Zen as Dictator, you were rather happy with the Constitition,

No I was not, but I trusted Zen.

Originally Posted by Padren

Your complaining now really is just a way to attack Wren and her legacy on a personal level, and has nothing to do with the Republic.

Hell no it's not, but everytime I try to explain that my posts vanish in thin air.

[Monkeyboy_McGee]

Omy, its just in one ear and out the other with you people.

[darkemporor]

I think Zen has more than adequately explained here (and justified) why the political structure of Zormite can and is legitimately called a Republic. This time, last time and the various times before that. Thank you once again, Zen. We can now put that topic to rest in this, as in many other (hijacked) threads. At least SOME of us understand it. Others seem to have a need to have it explained again from time to time and Zen always does an excellent job of it.

Anyway, this thread was not intended to be a discussion about the political structure of Zormite, or whether kingdom leaders RP to your standards or not. This thread topic has an original theme. It's about Zormite, and an announcement about a change in personnel. Nappa, your habit of posting off topic, at best, is annoying. Many have expressed this. Gozelda, I plan to continue my moderation of the Zormite forum. You are duly informed.

Certain profoundly uncreative persons will always attempt to direct discussion by contributing remote (repetitive) tangents laced with as many personal insults as possible. Yet others are limited to whining about the behaviors and non-RP-ish statements of kingdom leaders they don't like. Its pathetic, but at least the rest of us have the satisfaction of predictability in both cases.

(Have you ever seen that Lamisil dermatophite commerical? Anyway...... yeah )

[Lance]

Originally Posted by LordZen

A monarch is a sovereign who inherits their power by birth rite, and being of royal blood.

Which as padren so adequately pointed out is what is occurring here.

In the Zormite Republic's case, the senior official of the ruling party becomes the "Dictator" of the nation, governing through party ideology. It can be justly construed that the constitution preferably favors a direct offspring of the former leader to take their place because that individual would be least likely to have ulterior conflicting motives against the party or their own parent. This is also why it is left partially open ended, to include less direct family members if need be to avoid obvious issues.

Except you just described a monarchy.

Also, the family member who inherits the office could just as quickly be replaced if the ruling party loses its supremacy.

But this never happens, right? That Dictator controls who joins the kingdom - they can never really be overpowered unless they let a bunch of people who are their rivals/enemies into the kingdom. I somehow doubt that Wren, for example, would have allowed Nappa and all of his followers in the kingdom.

Every nation who operates as a republic has their own flavor of it. No two governments are perfectly identical. This is simply how the early leaders of the Zormite Republic chose to handle the country's line of secession between election periods.

But when you convert to a monarchy, you cannot and should not call this a Republic. It wasn't one to begin with, really, and this has not changed. Zen picked Wren. Wren picked Aki. Continue cycle.

I'll further note that the phrase 'early leaders of the Zormite Republic' is humorous.

Additionally, it would probably make more sense to those who are unaware if they knew the story behind the beginnings of the Republic. Basically, the country fell into a sort of anarchy, from general fear of instability and revolution. There was so much panic caused by the fear of revolution, that the Emperor basically forfeited his right to rule the land and allowed for a new government to be structured from the ground up. A bloodless Revolution, I suppose.

A new government where the same Emperor who forfeited his right to rule the land suddenly became the Dictator...? Man, your argument is weaker when you're giving explanations now than it was when it just occurred without explanation.

But at any rate, the only visionaries that had their stuff together early on was a group of Loyalists, who supported the former royal bloodline. Infact, they named their political ideology after the royal family's last name: Archigos; and after becoming more ogranized formed the National Archist Party of Zormite, or NAPZ. And obviously, they had a hand in drafting the new constitution. Its that party's choice to want a member of the former royal family to be the leader of their party. So as long as NAPZ was able to remain the ruling party, through consent of the people, they in effect accomplish a secondary goal which was to preserve the monarchy in some form, but in a modernized, more stable architecture of government.

okay so you wrote a nice little paragraph about why you got to keep power wow that's so cool

it's just a story though, please refer to next point

So NAPZ, a party supporting the former royal family, had a hand in influencing how the line of seccesion was to be played out according to the consitution, but understand that the same constitutional principle would apply even if another party managed to gain control of the country (with a senior official having no royal relations).

Except that the conversion to the Zormite Republic with you as dictator happened instantaneously. I was online at the time.

The government is wholy structured properly as a Republic, regardless of whether or not Zormite's is a common flavor in the real world.

Unfortunately, calling a sheep's tail a leg does not make it one. Likewise, calling Zormite a Republic when it not only was never one but has degenerated to even less of one does not make it so.

Originally Posted by darkemporor

I think Zen has more than adequately explained here (and justified) why the political structure of Zormite can and is legitimately called a Republic.

He's actually managed to do the exact opposite.

This time, last time and the various times before that. Thank you once again, Zen. We can now put that topic to rest in this, as in many other (hijacked) threads.

Legitimate discussion != hijacked thread.

At least SOME of us understand it. Others seem to have a need to have it explained again from time to time and Zen always does an excellent job of it.

An excellent job of it...? He just demonstrated that he has no idea what he's talking about.

Anyway, this thread was not intended to be a discussion about the political structure of Zormite, or whether kingdom leaders RP to your standards or not. This thread topic has an original theme. It's about Zormite, and an announcement about a change in personnel. Nappa, your habit of posting off topic, at best, is annoying. Many have expressed this. Gozelda, I plan to continue my moderation of the Zormite forum. You are duly informed.

Off-topic posting is not against the rules, and neither should it be. We've been over this before. Legitimate topics spring up from other topics. The best suggestion I can make about them is that if it really bothers you, you should split the thread.

[Crono]

-dances for lance-

My point is, this dictatorship is stupid. Where's the oppressiveness? Hell, I VOTE MOON GODDESS FOR DICTATOR OF ZORMITE. No seriously, she would atleast live up to her name.

On a more serious note, why call it a dictatorship when it's not?

[darkemporor]

Originally Posted by Gerami

My point is, this dictatorship is stupid. Where's the oppressiveness?

There IS oppression. They just aren't allowed to talk about it. >:]

Originally Posted by Lance

Off-topic posting is not against the rules, and neither should it be. We've been over this before... The best suggestion I can make about them is that if it really bothers you, you should split the thread.

It doesn't matter what ya'll don't like about Zormite. We've been over THIS before, too. I can only suggest if you don't like what's going on with Zormite, you split.

Wren

[Dehitay]

A lot of people seem to be confusing a Republic with a Democracy
Just to clarify things
Republic - one person represents a group of people
Democracy - major issues are voted upon

It is true that Zen did a horrible job describing why Zormite is a Republic contrary to what Wren said
But if you look at it from the view that Aki is representing the Zormite Republic, then it could be said it's a Republic

[busyrobot]

If Saddam Hussien can call himself a president who wins a popular vote in a Republic (even still from his trial no less), then I think Zormite can call itself whatever it wants.

All of you grumblers, please buy a plane ticket and go whine at that guy at his trial. That could actually be amusing.

[GoZelda]

Originally Posted by busyrobot

If Saddam Hussien can call himself a president who wins a popular vote in a Republic (even still from his trial no less), then I think Zormite can call itself whatever it wants.

Look what happened to him =) Besides, it isn't relevant for you because you said earlier that Graal can't be compared to real life

[busyrobot]

Originally Posted by GoZelda

Look what happened to him =) Besides, it isn't relevant for you because you said earlier that Graal can't be compared to real life

I stand by that, however as many others have made irl comparisions, I offered a relevant one that counters their points. As far as what happened to Saddam, I assure you if he called his regime by another other name, it would have had no effect on what happened to him - and has nothing to do with the topic.

My point is that the terminology is very subjective irl, and also quite flexible. The nit picky long winded complaints about zormite are as out of place as they are baseless. Its as annoying as spending a year and a half listening to people complaining about the color of the dustari wand or something.

Give it up already. Its a game. No one would even care IF you all had a point, the fact that you don't only adds to the irrelevance.