Global Development Team

[DarkShadows_Legend]

PD, the only scripter that 'bailed' on me was you, so I don;t see why you say that.

Why do you make those threads complaining that you get no help, and then make these threads saying 'omg if we don't get script help, then i am quitting'. You wanted to merge with NP to get more scripters, and the same with Babylon. So something like this would work in your favor to have some new people to harrass to build your server while you sit back hype up your playerworld and be like 'oh yeah look at my awesome server I built'.

Forget about the scripter part since my staff duties were clear from my positions of Events Chief->Admin->Assistant manager. Maybe I should have done more from the latter 2, but you yourself saw all the harrassment I got from the PW Renter, and in the case where I was scripting a lot of this stuff was new to me.
Even as Manager I don't have a clue what you wanted because all you ever did was complain. I say forget about the scripter part because look how many development staff bailed out on you before I was even staff on EoA. It is a large number of people, indeed.

[Kristi]

Woo im late, and probably being repetitive but...

If your playerworld does not have good scripters, that is no one's fault but your own. Do not start one if you do not have a team, no one should have to "lead the way" for you to create a good team.

What ideals does this lead to anyway? 150 servers all approved? You seriously think having a large amount of servers will form any decent playerbase? At that point the players are just all going to want to hang out in one location because its an MMORPG! You play because theres other people!

The GST is a wonderful team. I had a dispute with *unnamed* manager, and I needed my scripts off a server (ones that werent released, just my work), but they were held hostage, so one of the wonderful GST members took care of it, had my stuff removed off the server that wasn't shown to the public, and back in my possession. YAY. Great job.

Bad idea, simply put!

[Darlene159]

ETD, I dont really see arguing, or bashing to a large degree, I see a discussion which is the intention, correct? Why do you want it closed now?

Also, about the quote "A tag would be fine so the pw's will know they can trust us"
Um, a tag does not automatically mean you can trust a person, and I dislike the meaning behind wanting a tag. I feel like a tag is wanted to be recognised as a global member, so they will be more willing to do as you say.

GST=Needed to moderate scripts on PW's...a bad script can shut down a pw, a bad script can create havok on a pw....alot of people need help with scripting as it is a very hard thing to learn.

GGT=Needed to regulate gfx on PW's....stolen graphics can create legal troubles for graal, therefore keeping a sharp eyeout for stolen material is detrimental

GDT=Why? We have a global graphics team, we have a global scripting team....a bad level cannot create havok on a pw, it cannot shut the pw down if made badly, it cannot create legal troubles for Graal. Also, making levels is not even that hard for people willing to work at it, and practice...If I can do it, then almost anyone can.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

GST=Needed to moderate scripts on PW's...a bad script can shut down a pw, a bad script can create havok on a pw....alot of people need help with scripting as it is a very hard thing to learn.

GGT=Needed to regulate gfx on PW's....stolen graphics can create legal troubles for graal, therefore keeping a sharp eyeout for stolen material is detrimental

GDT=Why? We have a global graphics team, we have a global scripting team....a bad level cannot create havok on a pw, it cannot shut the pw down if made badly, it cannot create legal troubles for Graal. Also, making levels is not even that hard for people willing to work at it, and practice...If I can do it, then almost anyone can.

I wont argue about the GST, but as for the GGT. Just because you can make graphics doesn't mean that you have a special gift of spotting illegal gfx. That's something anyone can do, from your job description of it anyway. I -HAVE- seen illegal gfx in the past months but obviously that's the GGT's job, no?

GDT would be both the GST and the GGT mixed with an additional level. Just because levels don't create havok doesn't mean that it's useless. What if a server's levels suck so hard that they go ahead and steal from other servers or upload levels sent to them via AIM or something like that and the PWA dont do much about it? (Right now I'm like "wtf just add pwa to the levels depertmant of GDT and have spark be the head of the GDT >_>")

[Loriel]

Originally Posted by Gerami

Right now I'm like "wtf just add pwa to the levels depertmant of GDT and have spark be the head of the GDT >_>"

So you just want to rename a lot of things and wreak havoc upon the management, for what gain exactly?

[ETD]

Originally Posted by Loriel

But is that not kind of implied here? Hm.?

no...

Originally Posted by Loriel

That means you are unable to get staff on your own, and instead you want to indirectly get staff by getting them to be global and then make them work on your server... ??

no...

Originally Posted by Loriel

But he most likely would have tried.

yea, I was wrong there, seems he does want to be a part of it.

Originally Posted by Loriel

why do you think such is the best thing for PWs?

I explained that in the first post...

Originally Posted by Loriel

I helped too, it was some time ago but I am rather convinced that I actually refactored some scripts and fixed some others.
ETD did not get along with R0bin so R0bin left, if I remember correctly.

I explained what happened in my post, try reading.
1. No, you did nothing
2. I disconnected Robin from RC, because we were just arguing, over what ended up being a missunderstanding (he missunderstood me, I missunderstood him... from my end it looked like he was saying he wouldn;t do any work, unless he had high RC rights... which I wasn;t about to give him)

Originally Posted by Loriel

Are you not continously accusing us of bailing out on you?

He said MY scripters... you guys just offered help, you weren;t staff of mine. And I don't 'constantly' accusing you guys, Wan brought it up, not me.

Originally Posted by Loriel

Hey, it was you that just made a two ton post about this

you've made replies to this topic longer than my origional post

Originally Posted by DarkShadows_Legend

Why do you make those threads complaining that you get no help, and then make these threads saying 'omg if we don't get script help, then i am quitting'.

Because people TELL me to make them... I made one thread asking for scripters, then one thread saying that I was going to end EoA. This thread had nothing to do with my server, and just was an idea I threw out there, mostly to get the discussion of a GLT out of that other thread. Stop making this thread about me, and discuss the actual topic -_-

Originally Posted by DarkShadows_Legend

Forget about the scripter part since my staff duties were clear from my positions of Events Chief->Admin->Assistant manager. Maybe I should have done more from the latter 2, but you yourself saw all the harrassment I got from the PW Renter, and in the case where I was scripting a lot of this stuff was new to me.

You were Events, AND Scripting chief to begin with... and you did a dang good job at it, which is why I still have not been able to recover since you left I don't see why you're trying to talk negativly about me in this thread, when I have done nothing but compliment you

Originally Posted by DarkShadows_Legend

Even as Manager I don't have a clue what you wanted because all you ever did was complain. I say forget about the scripter part because look how many development staff bailed out on you before I was even staff on EoA. It is a large number of people, indeed.

Umm.. I asked your opinion a LOT, and the only time you told me what you were thinking was after you quit I wanted your imput MANY times, and you wouldn't give me anything... also, I complimented you a LOT, maybe not always to your face, but to others... I also, who 'bailed' on me? I know I fired a good amount of people, but they didn't do much work anyways... we still have the same core staff that we always have had, exept you left.

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I see a discussion which is the intention, correct? Why do you want it closed now?

The discussion was over when I asked for it to be closed... what more is there to be discussed? People are just repeating the same thing over and over now, arguing for no reason, because Spark said what would need to be done for the team to be formed... there is nothing left to discuss. Also, some people have desided to make part of this thread about me, and my server, when it shouldn't be
-------------------------------------
ok, I just replied to parts that were directed at me, or about me... I am not arguing about this anymore, and I'd like it if people would stop discussing myself, or my server in a thread which isn't supposed to be about either

[Loriel]

Originally Posted by ETD

no...
no...

Err, okay. So you neither want to be on the team nor want it to help you. Why do you care?

yea, I was wrong there, seems he does want to be a part of it.

kk.

I explained that in the first post...

Indeed. Nevermind.

I explained what happened in my post, try reading.
1. No, you did nothing
2. I disconnected Robin from RC, because we were just arguing, over what ended up being a missunderstanding (he missunderstood me, I missunderstood him... from my end it looked like he was saying he wouldn;t do any work, unless he had high RC rights... which I wasn;t about to give him)

I did something. Really.
Fine about the misunderstanding, neither your fault nor R0bin's then I guess.

He said MY scripters... you guys just offered help, you weren;t staff of mine. And I don't 'constantly' accusing you guys, Wan brought it up, not me.

Fine, then.

you've made replies to this topic longer than my origional post

I am not saying there is anything wrong with it...

[ETD]

Originally Posted by Loriel

Why do you care?

I answered this already.. I was just trying to stop the arguing in another thread over if there should be a GLT... I figured maybe if this idea came into effect, then the level makers would be happy, and everything would be better, due to the reasons I stated earlier for why I thought it should happen.

I am no longer arguing for or against the idea... so please don't address anymore questions twards me? I'd rather just back away from this chat now
(This was directed at everyone, not you spicifically Loriel... and thanks for giving me an out by agreeing a lot in your last post <3)

[Dach]

WTF this thread sucks
You want to help servers with levels? Join their teams
GGT -> usefull for obvious reasons, a GFX guy will more readily spot a stolen gfx than myself or most anyone else, since they are actually a part of the gfx community

GST -> asking for scripts is completely different than helping with scripts, if they were to make scripts for servers, they would be completely devoid of all free time. They will gladly help (aslong as they're not busy) if you happen to get stuck solving some script problem that isn't out of your league (scripters have a code for a reason, deal with it). Oh, Wan, did you not ever happen to realize that scripters keep the script windows maximized? It's kind of hard to reply in RC when you can't see the window . Don't even try to say "check RC every once in awhile then " dealing with complex scripts just happens to be more important than your curiosity.

GLT -> Only worthy reason to have this is for the same reason as the GGT. But, as already said, Graal can't get sued for level issues. You want to lift the overall quality of Graal? Go work for the servers, you don't need a global tag. If they don't want your help, fine, let them be not good. No big deal if a handfull of the 150 PWs fail .

Idealistically, if we had enough talent in these three main areas of development on Graal, then yes we could set it up so all of you game design hobbyists could create your dream . But, that is far from possible.

[osrs]

I help more playerworlds than all GST members and i don't need global stuff. I understand and to be honest i like your idea, seems to be nice and needed at the moment since many people make projects and can't handle it. Good luck trying though.

[Loriel]

Originally Posted by osrs

I help more playerworlds than all GST members

This is pretty insulting. Will you please back it up with some facts that prove your point?

[osrs]

Originally Posted by Loriel

This is pretty insulting. Will you please back it up with some facts that prove your point?

How so? I'm not insulting anyone since i did not say that you all don't help playerworlds and only i do, i just said that i help more playerworlds than all of GST members do and i don't need global-power. Do you need facts? Visit some playerworlds and ask the managers and staffs, i actually help most of under-construction playerworlds with scripting because the managers im me everyday to help with systems or even explain things. (also i upload lil tutorial of how work with NC). Did i prove my point?

[Loriel]

Originally Posted by osrs

Did i prove my point?

Nope. You just made a bunch of claims.

[osrs]

Originally Posted by Loriel

Nope. You just made a bunch of claims.

I think you failed to understand it then.

[Scott]

This thread is brilliant.
Oh, and this idea is lame. <3 I won't post why, because it has all been said.

[syltburk]

If you are "plain afk" on remote control then you aren't doing anything on it, am I right???
Then you are idling on rc.

[SSJ2_Gogeta]

The GST does work. Their job is to make sure scripts are efficent and secure on servers.
Its impossible for them to go on every single server but if you contact Loriel he usually responds.

[syltburk]

Fact is that you are talking about two persons, and there is more on the GST team... Sure maybe Loriel does work, I think I never said anything about that GST doesn't work. Atleast I havn't said anything about Loriel doing a bad job.

I just thinks that its stupid that some people feels that level making isn't special, or is to "easy" or to "common" so level makers that actually are good get no credit for that just "Yeah well there is others", one day there will be no more level makers that actually have some quality and isn't lazy bums.

Also, It still remains that level making can do the very same things as GST, its just in a different development area. What I have learned is that there is a lack of respect to level makers, you might think "No we respect them", but It doesn't sound like it. The way you act isn't right to us. We maybe doesn't need a global level team, I acept that. But what the hell? Since when did level making become a second hand job.
There is alot off servers that is in need of LAT's, do you know why they doesn't have any? Because it is actually not that easy to find level makers, atleast level makers that will work and put effort in it. Most have quit due the lack of "need".

[dlang]

I quit level making because of the lack of "inspiration"
I'd still like to help others on how to make things better though, but unfortunatly there is no global position for the profession I think counts more than others. Scripts & GFX useless without levels to put them in.

[Milkdude99]

Originally Posted by dlang

I quit level making because of the lack of "inspiration"
I'd still like to help others on how to make things better though, but unfortunatly there is no global position for the profession I think counts more than others. Scripts & GFX useless without levels to put them in.

This was explained already on why a Levels Global Team is not needed.

[Lance]

Originally Posted by dlang

unfortunatly there is no global position for the profession I think counts more than others. Scripts & GFX useless without levels to put them in.

Unfortunately, you could say the exact same thing about the other two departments.

Sorry, but no.

[WanDaMan]

a script can clog up the npc server, i.e

if(created) timeout = 0.05;
if(timeout){
for(i=0;i<10000;i++){
sendtorc i;
}
timeout=0.05;
}

or something similar

[dlang]

Graal can't be sued over levels etc. I know...

And unixmad doesn't want more Global RCs...

[WanDaMan]

Originally Posted by dlang

Graal can't be sued over levels etc. I know...

And unixmad doesn't want more Global RCs...

oms graal can be sued by scripts?!psata! (deletes all the stolen crap*)

[Kristi]

Originally Posted by WanDaMan

oms graal can be sued by scripts?!psata! (deletes all the stolen crap*)

Graal can be comprimised by script (ie hacked, cheated, security holes out the wazoo)

I think Kai stated this somewhere already, but that problem does not exist with levels.

Scripts can bog down the npc server, levels cannot

This is all just being repeated, do not let it go through your empty head this time.

[Blue_Dragn]

Originally Posted by dlang

And unixmad doesn't want more Global RCs...

Yet this R0bin fellow got one?

oh well its the same for playerworlds too right? No More Classic?

[osrs]

Originally Posted by Blue_Dragn

Yet this R0bin fellow got one?

He deserved it.

[protagonist]

Hi, global levels team is an excuse to be lazy and not make your own levels.

Any average person can read the tutorials and make a good level.

Graphics require a large measure of talent. You can't just read a tutorial and make a standard graphic, and if you did, you'd have to be able to make all sorts of things with that ability, not just a tree or bush.

Scripts require alot of mathematical coherence and logic which alots of players lack. It's not impossible to become mathematically coherent or logical, but it's alot harder than both graphics and levels because it changes a fundamental part of your life. Trust me. Learning to script completely changed how I did math, and I now get 96/97/98s because of it. It requires alot of dedication if you do not already have such tools available.

(By the way, I sort of dropped scripting once I heard about the new language so that I could take up C and get ready for it. So don't ask me to script for you, I haven't kept it up and do not remember alot of it outside of mathematics)

[Dach]

Originally Posted by protagonist

Any average person can read the tutorials and make a good level.

Leveling takes talent
the only problem is that having global RC is not needed, the only thing it would accomplish is a boost in general PW level quality. You can just go from server to server asking if they need any help and get the same results. Even if the server denies your help because they don't know you and/or your not endorsed Globally, then that is the PW's problem.

[protagonist]

Originally Posted by Dach

Leveling takes talent
the only problem is that having global RC is not needed, the only thing it would accomplish is a boost in general PW level quality. You can just go from server to server asking if they need any help and get the same results. Even if the server denies your help because they don't know you and/or your not endorsed Globally, then that is the PW's problem.

It does take a certain degree of talent, but it's easily attainable compared to the other two fields. Why do you think there are so many LATs in retrospect to the number of GATs or NATs?

[Dach]

Originally Posted by protagonist

It does take a certain degree of talent, but it's easily attainable compared to the other two fields. Why do you think there are so many LATs in retrospect to the number of GATs or NATs?

Yeah, but if you jack up your quality expectations, there really aren't that many decent level makers. Tiling is one thing, making a whole map (that's actually good!) is a whole 'nother ball game

Ganis on the other hand...

[Andy0687]

Originally Posted by protagonist

It does take a certain degree of talent, but it's easily attainable compared to the other two fields. Why do you think there are so many LATs in retrospect to the number of GATs or NATs?

Because people think Level Making is easier, and so they try it, and go
"I R M L33t LAT!"

Working a script and actually getting it to work, is frusterating, and a working script cant just be "laid" down, so i guess people tend to avoid that.

[Aknts]

Hello... Guess who is back. Anyways I have talked to Stefan about this many times and he told me to get a team ready for a Global Level Team in which I did and we never talked further about it. I have talked to him on 2 occasions in which he loved the idea but that was as far as it got.

[ETD]

Originally Posted by Aknts

Hello... Guess who is back. Anyways I have talked to Stefan about this many times and he told me to get a team ready for a Global Level Team in which I did and we never talked further about it. I have talked to him on 2 occasions in which he loved the idea but that was as far as it got.

This explains a lot...

And I think Stefan says he likes a lot of ideas... since it makes him look better to those people =X just a thought though...

Anyways, if the GLT will actually be made, you'd think he would post about it by now...

[Aknts]

He told me to lead a team for it and all so I got a team and then he would never reply after that.

[WanDaMan]

Well what ever he said isn't going to come to plan. It's obvious they don't want a working team on the global team, heh.
This thread should be closed

meanys.

[Milkdude99]

I agree it does take talent as well as vision to think up new ways to use tiles. I don't think the "average " person can make what is needed today.

[dlang]

It may be easy to learn to make levels, but its not as easy to be very good at it and have a good imagination to aid in your creations.

Making levels is about being able to apply your thoughts into a level effectively.