New Manager

[Kill]

We were called in by you, yourselves. Not all of you, I'm not even pointing you out, either, Kill. But the PWA didn't just walk in unannounced or uninvited.

You misunderstood what I was trying to say. We wanted you guys to do a full detailed constructed review whereby you looked at ALL the aspects of the server. Based on your decision alone, you have not done this.
Also, you singled out my opening statement of my full paragraph. If you quoted it fully (assuming you read it) you would've understood what I was trying to get at.

TSA you were invited, but the way you and your team approached this was all wrong.
I hope it's not like this in the future, you guys look like a complete and utter joke as of now.

Kill is saying that you should stick to your gas producing bullet flying noob era server and leave us the heck alone

No I am not. I'm just appauled by how his team didn't do the necessary paperwork or research needed to conclude such a decision.

[Kill]

So you don't have a response to what I said?

[DutchGuy]

Originally Posted by Kill

So you don't have a response to what I said?

indeed...he's still regretting his descision.

[TSAdmin]

Originally Posted by Kill

So you don't have a response to what I said?

Sorry, I didn't see it. After I responded to Ramirez, I went to bed.

Originally Posted by Kill

You misunderstood what I was trying to say. We wanted you guys to do a full detailed constructed review whereby you looked at ALL the aspects of the server. Based on your decision alone, you have not done this.
Also, you singled out my opening statement of my full paragraph. If you quoted it fully (assuming you read it) you would've understood what I was trying to get at.

TSA you were invited, but the way you and your team approached this was all wrong.
I hope it's not like this in the future, you guys look like a complete and utter joke as of now.

I could have walked around on Classic with the 2 or 3 people that were on each day over the past couple of weeks until my virtual feet bled, but no amount of walking around on the server was going to get my review input to be swayed by something like
"This tile looks like it's been inactive for 4 years"
but since merely being on the server didn't seem to be productively moving anything along, it was a good thing that the people still had a voice.

The moments in which I was able to get in contact with a tiny mass of people on Classic at one time, all I got were a 3-4 man strong set of "DC Supporters" who only moaned and complained how they wanted DC as Manager, but honestly avoided most of my questions by giving deflective answers, so I knew that DC would never get manager as he were one of the people in the room, as well. You can't hope to reach the top if you deflect everything.

This, in-turn, left only 1 real aspect to fulfil which was to just speak to those who would speak, and Bell summed that up pretty well. When given the chance, I had quite a few people simply say "I'll post it on the forum thread later" who never did, and never showed up again.

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

I have no problem with Storm or Thor, but 2 managers shouldn't be the case, on any server. Reasons already stated.

While I have already stated that I see where people are coming from on the Duel Manager thing, and even showed you my opinion on it, they're big boys. I am sure that now they're both mature enough to (if they so decided) discuss between each other if there should be a "Co-Manager" instead of "2 Managers" and further decide which of the two should take up that position. That, in my opinion, is now entirely up to them.

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

I am sure that now they're both mature enough to (if they so decided) discuss between each other if there should be a "Co-Manager" instead of "2 Managers" and further decide which of the two should take up that position.

I personally found this to be very bothersome. You must have only had the most positive of experiences with Storm. To himself, most actions of his are justifiable, and the ones that aren't aren't severe enough to warrant anything negative being done. So no, he's not capable. This is pretty evident by the fact that he hasn't stepped down on his own.

Feel free to point out that this is my opinion of his actions. You'd be right, but what, exactly, DOES it take before it's severe enough without just plain being "corrupt"? There is no clear rule to go by here, it's all based on opinion of severity. Clearly myself and a lot of others think that what has transpired IS enough. The time involved is BEYOND ridiculous.

[DarkCloud_PK]

Does someone want to fill me in on what a deflective answer is?
That would be pretty nice.

[xnervNATx]

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

I could have walked around on Classic with the 2 or 3 people that were on each day over the past couple of weeks until my virtual feet bled, but no amount of walking around on the server was going to get my review input to be swayed by something like
"This tile looks like it's been inactive for 4 years

i only saw you log on classic 3 times in the past month and there was about 18 players online every day

[TSAdmin]

Originally Posted by xnervNATx

i only saw you log on classic 3 times in the past month and there was about 18 players online every day

On the same token, I could argue I only ever saw you on 3 times as well. I know you're an active player, but it doesn't change the fact that you and I could only have seen each other as often as our times allowed us to. Just because you don't see something happening (In this case, someone such as myself getting on) doesn't mean it's not happening at all.

Originally Posted by Kill

I meant your team didn't ask every staff for their views on the matter - especially the ones with the highest administrative privileges (such as Stryker and Ranger), they also didn't look at other Classic forums such as the GC forums since looking at private forums only show a positive light on development and never the reality of things (for example the awful HD which could've been shown to you in a good light when in fact it was anything but).

All of the highest admins (Including Stryker and Ranger) were given access to a private forum created by Darlene by request of Bell in which there was a thread that held discussions between the PWA and staff. This forum was actually the idea of one of the staff, as it were.

Originally Posted by Kill

I can't talk for everyone else but I personally did reply to questions that were asked, and I did compare with other candidates and gave a justified reason as to why I believed this person would've been better than another person. If they gave deflective answers; you should've done your part and said that so they could answer the question you were trying to imply to avoid them changing the direction of their answer.

I am going to single out that part there in bold. I was actually speaking with DC about this through PMs. I would post the history here if it weren't against the rules, but the basic point was that I had tried, but whether the people asked at the time didn't want to answer, or didn't have an answer, or just plain didn't want to talk to me, I never got one from them, but they're more than willing to stand up and claim they were never heard out, now, when the review is over.

[StrykerTFFD]

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

All of the highest admins (Including Stryker and Ranger) were given access to a private forum created by Darlene by request of Bell in which there was a thread that held discussions between the PWA and staff. This forum was actually the idea of one of the staff, as it were.

Wow, quit lying. I've called out the other PWAs on their lies, I will call you out on yours. I said before that thread had one post from a PWA who was involved in the review. The rest came from Bell who kept trying to get the ball rolling. There was no discussion. There was a one sided attempt from the staff to get you to give us an idea what your thoughts were.

Even Bell admitted in this very thread that our posts left questions to be answered, yet we didn't hear from any of you except her. I really wish they would make that thread public so you guys can stop trying to use it to say you did talk to us. You didn't.

Further to the point, if the PWA felt they had spoken to me adequately, why did Tig try to apologize to me for not doing just that? (I don't expect an answer to this question. Every question I've posted in this thread that puts you on the spot has gone ignored.)

[xnervNATx]

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

On the same token, I could argue I only ever saw you on 3 times as well. I know you're an active player, but it doesn't change the fact that you and I could only have seen each other as often as our times allowed us to. Just because you don't see something happening (In this case, someone such as myself getting on) doesn't mean it's not happening at all.

i was on most of the time , ask anyone on the server. i saw you come online twice on your own an the third time is when dc pm you about bell ****ing the review on her own.

[Kill]

Can you stop acting like I'm insulting him?
If you want to downgrade TSA as a person; do it yourself, he did a great job as Era Manager and i've seen him on other servers too.
Take your banter elsewhere please.

[DarkCloud_PK]

Alright, time for me to speak up, now that I've been able to get some sleep.
While I'm going to remain neutral about this new Thorm management specifically,
I am not going to remain neutral of the PWA awful handling of the aftermath this has created.

Yeah, you made your final decision, guess what? It wasn't the change the people wanted here. I'm not speaking for myself either, obviously with such a negative poll number about the decision(Current results to has the PWA made the correct decision is 5 Yes to 21 No) and this much outcry from it on the forums and in game. While I agree the PWA should have to defend their judgement and explain to the masses on why they came to such a decision, while answering their specific quieries in such a polite manner, that is not what is happening at all.

The general theme coming from various PWA members at any time is to tell the people to 'quit whining'(that was how TSA STARTED OFF). Quit trying to fight with these players that don't agree with you, pick them apart and argue with them. I'm not talking about one specific instance either.

Between the 3 PWA members, we've had Tig log onto RC and pick fights with Stryker, we've had Tig come on here and pick a fight with Rufus, who isnt even an admin or staff member here, a player. we have TSAdmin doing that with Kill now, albiet in a more professional attempt.

The general reaction of the PWA to the player outcry of the decision that they made has been negative and hostile. I can see the reasoning behind their outcry, the decision arrived to, has been that nearly opposite the views of the players in general, it certainly is of this 20+ page thread we're in now.

One of the biggest issues on classic is the low player and staff morale about the server in general. This has been a big thing I have been dedicating myself to fix as much as I can. The PWA right now is completely throwing all of the players morale into the toilet. The decision was going to generate hostility, DEAL WITH IT. Act like global administrators for christ's sake. This isn't some damn flame war, this is GLOBAL STAFF interacting with PLAYERS but it sure as hell isn't how its coming off. If this is how you guys are going to react and interact with the players, please, go away, far far away from Classic, I don't need the player and staff morale going down FURTHER because you guys can't take a little heat without getting butthurt.

[xnervNATx]

Originally Posted by DarkCloud_PK

One of the biggest issues on classic is the low player and staff morale about the server in general. This has been a big thing I have been dedicating myself to fix as much as I can. The PWA right now is completely throwing all of the players morale into the toliet. The decision was going to generate hostility, DEAL WITH IT. Act like global administrators for christ's sake. This isn't some damn flame war, this is GLOBAL STAFF interacting with PLAYERS but it sure as hell isn't how its coming off. If this is how you guys are going to react and interact with the players, please, go away, far far away from Classic, I don't need the player and staff morale going down FURTHER because you guys can't take a little heat without getting butthurt.

i must agree with you. GET the **** away from classic , i do not hate thor , but he should have stick with dev admin . why manager? what thing will he do that will be more benefit to the server? just by having him having MORE power than he had before.

[Remonq]

if by "talking to each of the admins" they mean reading the responses to the questions that we posted in the globals forum then yeah, they "talked" to us. but i never heard from any of them concerning the subject of the matter

[Bell]

There is one thing that bothers me that people seem to be forgetting about. Due to the fact that the PWA and staff of Classic are all on differant time zones. It was suggested by DC that a private forum be set up so that the staff and PWA could talk to each. While a few people thought it was a dumb idea I agreed to it and had Darlene set it up.

Each and every one of you had an opportunity to say whatever you wished, there was no moderation, nothing to say you couldn't speak your mind and put in anything you felt was important. If you chose not to participate then so be it, your decision. A few people chose to contact the PWA outside of the forums with other comments they preferred not to say publicly. Which was alright too. Several of you said "This is all I have to say." Because I felt that it still may of left some questions unanswered, I posed a few questions of my own. Those were also responded to.

Why is it now though that when this is all over, some of you now come back and complain that nobody talked to you. You have your own voice, there was absolutely nothing stopping any of you from adding anything you wanted to say. Instead the PWA gets blamed for not asking you personally?

You didn't like the inititial review, fine. I removed myself from the process and saw to it you got your review under your conditions. Making it very clear that it wouldn't be done a third time if you didn't like the outcome. The PWA team did their review and came to a conclusion which I then posted. It seems like we're back to square one again which is historically the case on Classic.

If I could magically find a way to raise player morale and make Classic the server it was pre npc I would. Graal's playerbase as a whole wouldn't support it at this time and all of you know that. This isn't the fault of the PWA, this isn't a problem limited to Classic alone. Morale will only go so far though. History shows that its also short lived.