Lifetime Classic

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by unixmad

So Cyberjoueurs have to find solutions to attract more players (and I am working on it very actively) but also find solution to not loose endlessly money with long time customers.

I think the most important thing to focus on would be the website, and keeping it updated. Like so many have said, not keeping the website updated could scare potential customers away.
Make sure the rules, ToS, etc...are updated as well, and advertising.
When I do a search for Graal, I find information, but most of it is unattractive, old playerbased content. Potential players will more likely play a game that has flashy advertisements, especially if they find it on popular game sites. Advertising is very important.

I'm sure that it is hard to find the balance to keep long time players happy, and to attract new members.

I do agree with members who say there should be more updates to what is already online.
Even though I am sure it isn't true, it appears to long time players that Graal staff no longer care about Playerworlds (Gold & Classic) that are already online. I understand that it is all about progressing on to higher levels of new gameplay and such, but a significant amount of players love the worlds they play on today, and have played on for years, and they don't want to see them die while new stuff is being concentrated on.

I love Graal, I love every aspect of Graal, and I have from day one. I love to watch it progress, and have loved every minute of watching Graal morph from a simple zelda-like free game to what it is today, and I know a lot of people love to Develope for Graal, but that is another problem. The offline editor is outdated, and does not help would/could be developers in impoertant areas such as scripting.
I can't script to save my life, but I have heard many members complain about this issue, so it is worth bringing up, especially since Graal is lacking in this area.

I find nothing at all wrong with the prices of memberships to play Graal. They are more than fair.

Also, a big reason why I do not go on the game much anymore, is the lack of rule enforcing. On some of these playerworlds, the language and actions of a lot of players are horrible. I know this may not be a problem for most kids, but as an adult, and a mom, it bothers me to see this stuff, and I would not let my kids play on such playerworlds.
PWA need to be actively patroling these playerworlds. they need to be available when trouble arises. They need to be active, and if they are not, if they don't want to do the job, then find someone who does.

Originally Posted by Stefan

But the flying technology is a good update? It is an update accessible to gold subscribers. It it not restricting the game play for other players, and is eventually encouraging them to upgrade. Why should classic players reupgrade if they get the same stuff without resubscribing?

I fully agree that some things should be limited to Gold/VIP. Members who have the lifetime classic accounts have already basically recieved something for almost nothing, and should not expect to recieve every new thing. That is unfair, and would send Graal to the poor farm in the future.

[_Z3phyr_]

If you wanna get me to want to willingly upgrade my account and go gold again, make a new Gold server that will be cool/good... and/or add a new feature.

Updates in my eyes are just patches or minor additions. To get my interest as a player, add a new feature to the game. Flying in those hot air balloons does look cool and all, but I've already seen one of those in Delteria (well, except for the whole "setfocus(x,y,fov_zoomfactor)" thing for the 'z' effect -- I may be wrong about that, but the fact that I can think of that in the first place disimpresses me somewhat) so its nothing completely new... and to me it just appears to be another minor addition to GK that will only give me a new way of getting around... just in case I ever want to upgrade my account again.

To me, an example of a feature of the game would be the ability to make a guild, primarily due to the whole GuildCP and how you need to apply and use the website to get it made/approved/managed. I actually wanted to get a VIP account for a little while after my Gold expired so that I could make my own guild... but I lost the urge after a couple days because I realized that some servers don't allow global guilds... and also I played Valikorlia a lot so it was illegal anyway.

As a player, I can say that if you make these additions to the game and only let gold/vip players use them, then it will be nothing more than a nuance to me -- something I can play without. It's just another item that I can possibly script myself or get uploaded if I play my cards right.



My recommendation is to make a new Gold server. If you'd prefer not to do that, then find a promising, currently in-progress server that needs help, Cyberjoueurify it, and then release it as a Gold server! (I'm keying that term, btw) If I see something new on the serverlist, I'm definitely going to double-click it whether I can play there or not (and I'm sure after that watching Zodiac stomp on all of the people who said it wouldn't last can make this go without saying).

The reason it appears to be hard to create a reason to do things in Graal, to me, is that the original theme of the game has been played out. That's why the more RPG-ish themes of Maloria and Zodiac where you have to level up have been rather successful -- they are generic forms of GK, and when you add that to fact that they're -newer-, the output will be a playercount worth talking about.

It's hard as hell to think of anything new or innovative that nobody's ever seen or thought of before because everybody and their codemonkey has already done it before.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by _Z3phyr_

My recommendation is to make a new Gold server. If you'd prefer not to do that, then find a promising, currently in-progress server that needs help, Cyberjoueurify it, and then release it as a Gold server! (I'm keying that term, btw) If I see something new on the serverlist, I'm definitely going to double-click it whether I can play there or not (and I'm sure after that watching Zodiac stomp on all of the people who said it wouldn't last can make this go without saying).

Yes, this is something I forgot to mention in my post also.
Players have been waiting for new Playerworlds to show up. I know there are quite a few in progress, let's get some up to play on?(Another thing that requires PWA activity)
I also like the idea of finding one that is really good, and making it Gold. I am sure there is at least one.

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

Players do the developing for the most part, even on the Gold servers that we're renewing our subscriptions for, so we do the developing and then we're forced to pay if we want to play our own content. Graal is unique, because I don't know of any other game that does this to this degree.

To me, this is a major benefit to upgrade.

[maximus_asinus]

I paid for my account, and upgraded it about 5 times, and probably 3 times on my darkriders_p2p account. If memory serves me correctly, when I upgraded, the cost was around 70-80$ Canadian, that is between 560-640$ give or take. I think that was a lot for a game like this. I've paid my dues, I don't think I'll upgrade again, unless you give some definate perks to gold/VIP accounts. I don't care if I can 'fly'.

You can go on and try to talk about the perks, but if you actually look at this game, you'll see that it isn't worth that much money. You'll point out that this game is cheap compared to games like WoW, where you have to pay monthly, but I can compare it to others that are free, or require a one time purchase. Players do the developing for the most part, even on the Gold servers that we're renewing our subscriptions for, so we do the developing and then we're forced to pay if we want to play our own content. Graal is unique, because I don't know of any other game that does this to this degree.

[_Z3phyr_]

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

What he said

/agree

I remember when I first got Graal as a trial -- I constantly played it. I saw that tutorial island and was like "oooooooooooooooooooooooooo". I used to actually draw on paper my Graal character and stuff (and I -hated-/-sucked at- drawing!)... I used to think up random things to do in my free time for my RP character in Valikorlia (that stuff is/was soo in-depth and cool because any player who had a dramatic capacity could do something and then say "hey I'm responsible for this!" without having to actually do any server dev work -- players could get respect by being a good RPer and not an Admin), too.

Man that was fun.





But back on topic here... I remember believing when I was a trial that Gold servers were the -really- cool/good ones (because Bomy Moon and Graal Kingdoms were definately cool with tons of stuff to do). Why not make/assist in selecting/making a new Gold server? Why not bring back the "Playerworld Inspection to go Classic" and add a "Playerworld Inspection to go Gold" methodology, which will hold the passing standards to a Cyberjoueur-like standard, and put the PWAs to work again? If I see PWAs playing an active role in determining the status of a playerworld (i.e. being Global Playerworld Administrators) in the game then I will have a reason to believe that they are powerful and deserve respect. That will create a player authority and something to start with.

[Spark910]

I don't understand why there has never really been any big advertising done for Graal, it would really get a lot of people on the game, and there are many cheap options and ideas/ways to get them there that I can think of.

In the past the websites lack of ease functionality was the excuse, but it still hasn't been updated it needs to be more simple and useful and then you can advertise for it.

If I was to be honest, Graals only world that is worth promoting would be Zone I think, and I can think of ways to do this easily (and some freely), and then people can stay or go onto other worlds from there.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Spark910

If I was to be honest, Graals only world that is worth promoting would be Zone I think, and I can think of ways to do this easily (and some freely), and then people can stay or go onto other worlds from there.

That's a matter of opinon, I think.
Personally, I dislike Zone (maybe because I am female, don't know).
Graal needs to be advertised as a whole. All features of it should be advertised in order to draw in more people IMO.
Different people like different things.

[Spark910]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

That's a matter of opinon, I think.
Personally, I dislike Zone (maybe because I am female, don't know).
Graal needs to be advertised as a whole. All features of it should be advertised in order to draw in more people IMO.
Different people like different things.

Assuming they promote a gold server, then it's that or GK. GK would have too much competition, and while price and a few other features may be of attraction, people would probably question why they'd play that over a 3D version. It also takes too long to get used to (as all games do).

Zone is quick and easy and to the point. It's constant action and gameplay, and you could probably play it fairly happily as a trial account as saving your stats on Zone isn't that big of an issue - although they will eventually want more health and items.

I'd personally get a website up just for zone, list all weapons and features, stick a download link to it and then get websites to review it - those who review arcard style games. People would check it out, and then they would also perhaps stick around and pay for Zone, or pay for another server.

It's just that if you advertise any classic server it'll be hard as visually it isn't that impressive, and some are fairly similar (although there is a lot more custom looking servers now).

But advertising Zone will attract the young people Graal is most likely to appeal to, as (not to play on sterotypes too much) but young boys like their shooting games! And Zone is quite a fun little game to play. Zone is probably the best chance of getting a positive review, as I think Graal may get a bit of criticism just because it's such a different type of game (but of course the reviewers can also look at the other servers).

[jacob_bald6225]

I'm not going to pay for a game that refuses to do anything to help the situation on the server I play on. I feel ignored as a customer.

Originally Posted by Gerami

I'm not an expert or anything but you need to give people a reason to upgrade. I don't mean one addition and restrict it, I mean worthwhile gold server additions. Make a new 2D gold server, or something. It's been a while since Graal Online has made their own server. Zone is simply a revival of the old Zone made by Angel and them.

If there were a new offical, classic-esque server, I would upgrade to gold to play it.

[_Z3phyr_]

Originally Posted by Spark910

If I was to be honest, Graals only world that is worth promoting would be Zone I think, and I can think of ways to do this easily (and some freely), and then people can stay or go onto other worlds from there.

/agree 73.948723562356%

Zone is a new graphical theme to the game. Yes, it's a complete 180 from the original premise of the game, but its fun to play in its own way and it hasn't been around long enough to have oldbies say "oh lol I remember back when I was a noob and got my first gold subscription..." when they think about it yet... so everyone doesn't have -as much- to say about it.

However, so as to not throw advertising into a single style of the game -- I think that an advertising campaign would have to exemplify/include the classic, GK, era, and Zone styles of the game. (I add Era to the list because it has its own style and premise compared to the other three -- I was never too fond of the server but I still acknowledge its position in the game. I would add Valikorlia too but when you glance at it, its a classic style unless Clash manages to release his game after god knows how long its been)

(edit - Darlene beat me to the post... I think we're kinda on the same page with the idea of including all of the styles of the game in an advertising campaign -- maybe you could use the styles as examples of the game's customizability and opportunities for entertainment?)

[Zero Hour]

Originally Posted by unixmad

So Cyberjoueurs have to find solutions to attract more players (and I am working on it very actively) but also find solution to not loose endlessly money with long time customers.

Very cool, Stephane. It's nice that you're asking the players. For years I saw people with Classic accounts and I wondered if I was missing something because it didn't make economical sense.

Just give the current classic another three months, the final of which will be a free gold month, and then end the classic service. Then only VIPs or a special "classic" account deal which pays less than VIPs, can access them.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Zero Hour

Just give the current classic another three months, the final of which will be a free gold month, and then end the classic service. Then only VIPs or a special "classic" account deal which pays less than VIPs, can access them.

I agree with this other than the part about "special classic account". there is no need for this when VIP is fairly cheap. I fully believe that if the lifetime classic accounts are done away with, that eventually quite a few members will upgrade. (Don't get mad, it is just my opinion, one person.)
I do think that Graal should run specials periodically to give people a chance to view Graal as a whole. Maybe give them a couple of weeks full, unlimited access? Of course this would have to be advertised quite a bit in order to draw in new players.

[Zero Hour]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I agree with this other than the part about "special classic account". there is no need for this when VIP is fairly cheap. I fully believe that if the lifetime classic accounts are done away with, that eventually quite a few members will upgrade. (Don't get mad, it is just my opinion, one person.)
I do think that Graal should run specials periodically to give people a chance to view Graal as a whole. Maybe give them a couple of weeks full, unlimited access? Of course this would have to be advertised quite a bit in order to draw in new players.

Actually this inspires me - that's a good idea to remove VIP, but instead of special deals just have special days of the week (Wednesday) when Classics can log on again for a few hours.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Zero Hour

Actually this inspires me - that's a good idea to remove VIP, but instead of special deals just have special days of the week (Wednesday) when Classics can log on again for a few hours.

I didn't say to remove VIP, lol
I said to remove the lifetime classic account deal (is it even still available?)

I am sure there are lots of ways to run special deals to give potential players a chance to play the game and see what it is all about, but it has to be advertised, advertised, advertised!!!

[Zero Hour]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I didn't say to remove VIP, lol
I said to remove the lifetime classic account deal (is it even still available?)

Sorry, that is actually what I meant. Just a little stupid this morning

[Sum41Freeeeek]

Two dollars a month is nothing. I can walk around on the sidewalks of my town,
find quarters, pick them up and I'll have enough money to keep my graal
account.

[Sam]

For me it was the quest system of classic that was fun for me. This is something that will make people having fun and stay. If you dont have a target you get bored. Otherwise as stated before: advertisement is the magic word. Use things like Google AdWords and such.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Sam

For me it was the quest system of classic that was fun for me. This is something that will make people having fun and stay. If you dont have a target you get bored. Otherwise as stated before: advertisement is the magic word. Use things like Google AdWords and such.

See, that's the thing. A majority of the older players loved the simplicity of Graal as it was in the beginning. Doing quests to gain hearts, money, swordpower, shieldpower, etc.... (my favorite)
On the other hand, lots of people want the Gold type, RP servers.

All should be advertised to draw in a larger group of people.

[KuJi]

Globals should all get together and make a world together.. but your also lacking globals for such projects.

[projectigi]

Originally Posted by KuJi

Globals should all get together and make a world together.. but your also lacking globals for such projects.

and then?
it will be a world with a theme
some players will like it others not
you cant make a perfect world, even with all top gfx, scripters, gani makers etc

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by projectigi

and then?
it will be a world with a theme
some players will like it others not
you cant make a perfect world, even with all top gfx, scripters, gani makers etc

Yes, but if it is something different then what we already have, it might draw in new players that might be interested in whatever type of gameplay it has. Different things for different people.

Originally Posted by Zero Hour

classic accounts don't work (in a economical way).

Exactly. Graal is losing money on this. Classic members are basically getting something for nothing because it is for a lifetime.

[medved]

Why would people with classic accounts keep playing Graal after the changes Zero Hour is suggesting when they can just go play one of those South Korean free-for-eternity online games?

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by medved

Why would people with classic accounts keep playing Graal after the changes Zero Hour is suggesting when they can just go play one of those South Korean free-for-eternity online games?

You might be suprised

[Admins]

Originally Posted by medved

Why would people with classic accounts keep playing Graal after the changes Zero Hour is suggesting when they can just go play one of those South Korean free-for-eternity online games?

That's what the discussion is about. Those games give free access, but charge money for changing the look, for items, for events etc.

[Zero Hour]

Originally Posted by medved

Why would people with classic accounts keep playing Graal after the changes Zero Hour is suggesting when they can just go play one of those South Korean free-for-eternity online games?

What I'm suggesting is pretty fair. They get 3 months to decide if they're going to upgrade or not, and then to add to it their final month is gold for free.

[KuJi]

Another good idea is classics get maybe 24 hours of game play a month?

[excaliber7388]

Since this is about the new flying tech. I just want to know, will the entire script not work for non vip/gold, or just the zooming feature?
If it's just the zooming feature, and the script will still work, then thar's okay. I'd rather classic servers have to do special things for vip/gold. For example, Era giving a coupon for a cheaper car for VIP members. I personally would add special features om my server If I knew it would help Graal out, such as special guns, etc. I just didn't want to limit flying, what is to be a large part of my serer, to a few people.
Maybe make every server offer a few weapons to gold/vip only, or let them do special quests. I'd be more than happy to add those kind of features to my server
Another good idea would be to reveal more things to gold/vip only, let them use beta material, or even help develope it.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Since this is about the new flying tech....

No, this is about lifetime classic.

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Sam

No, this is about lifetime classic.

But it's creation is. I just want an answer to my question

[KuJi]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

But it's creation is. I just want an answer to my question

Post in the other thread then.

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by KuJi

Post in the other thread then.

I did, but I'm afraid the entire post will be deleted for being off topic

[Elk]

those games also earn money with advertising other games or sites...which gets the game more players and more money
got it?

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Elk

those games also earn money with advertising other games or sites...which gets the game more players and more money
got it?

Yes advertising is important.

[KuJi]

Every 3 months you should allow trials full access for one week on previews. (w/ saving.. for the week.. after that they get reset giving them a week to play and upgrading on the 7th day.. or maybe you can save it but not allow them to use the items until they upgrade?)

[KuJi]

z.z.... okay then I won't give anymore ideas to solve the problem since I've given like 5-10 already w/ 0 comments on such =o!

[WanDaMan]

Finish the guild system please. I'm getting very impatient about that x-x

[excaliber7388]

The classic accounts should stay, but there should be a lot of extras and reasons to upgrade. The biggest reason I keep upgrading is I like having my own server, and I need VIP for it.

[Elk]

im just upgrading to pm people on other servers

[Googi]

Originally Posted by unixmad

So Cyberjoueurs have to find solutions to attract more players (and I am working on it very actively) but also find solution to not loose endlessly money with long time customers.

We keep telling you that ridiculous rules and overbearing moderators are causing people to leave, but you don't do anything about it. The moderation on the forums isn't making you look "professional", it isn't impressing anybody and it isn't something any successful MMORPGs do. It's causing people to quit (or, more rarely, to be banned for stupid reasons) and then tell everyone else not to upgrade.

[pacMASTA]

Originally Posted by Googi

We keep telling you that ridiculous rules and overbearing moderators are causing people to leave, but you don't do anything about it. The moderation on the forums isn't making you look "professional", it isn't impressing anybody and it isn't something any successful MMORPGs do. It's causing people to quit (or, more rarely, to be banned for stupid reasons) and then tell everyone else not to upgrade.

Very well put -^

But on another note Unixmad -v

Also Unixmad talking about 'new versions' 'new fees' the only games that do that actually add NEW content; WoW Burning Crusades: New Races, New Transport, New Worlds to explore, Battefield2142 Although its based on the Battlefield2 engine its totally a different game, New Transport, New Weapons, New Characters, New levels. Among lots of other games doing this theirs actually so many it will take too long to list them all but im sure everyone gets the picture except you Unixmad, you have no means of justifying more money for barely anything new. Although if you take the time to listen to your players yeah i know woah your customers actually have something to say?! Amazing discovery I'm sure you will notice they too think this is a bad idea.

And to touchbase on the new content. An expanded Z plane is an AMAZING UPDATE worth $25->$40 and charging players for this 'new content' will lead to disaster because players will get agrovated till they leave because now your gimping the content so even though for me as an example i've upgraded pacMASTA 5-6times but now you unroll this 'new content' for $40 which now i cant access inless i want to give another $25 I'm not gona go I MUST GIVE MORE MONEY FOR LITTLE CHANGE; Im gona say 'F' this Im going to go play something else.

Also I'll touch this Graal3D mater I think we may as well drop it; 2 Failed attempts going on 3 now I think the Graal3D project can be classified as a fiasco and we shall never mention it and can work on player support and the content players are actually playing; or even a means to update and manipulate this content their is no Dev support for Mac OS X or Linux really; And even the Windows tools are quite dated if you want to be a PROFESIONAL business you can't rely on your players to make the tools for you. This is your job you say you want to be treated like a profesional business but you sure as hell don't act like one. All games you can actually edit BF2, FEAR, Unreal, ETC. Give you a source developers kit and in most of the cases its compatible with all OS's when with Graal theirs only antcient tools for Windows and nothing else.

What about Ragnarok online and such, also theirs another game thats quite a bit like Graal Online but i forgot its name thats 100% free; and even with ragnarok online they dont charge for you for patchs and yes ragnarok is ALOT like Graal; Its basically 2d sprites, 3d effects, with the capability of a 3d enviorment it basically describes graal. But graal 'boasts' the means that its EASY to EDIT when in reality is extremely hard if you dont use windows and even then your tools suck.

In reality Graal Online Adminstration is just puting more and more on the table they can't even deliver and when it is finally acomplished they just add a pricetag to something that really should be free because of chages so extremely minor.