Massokre's Classic Discussion (split from Warning about graalians.com)

[jake13jake]

Originally Posted by Luda

Oh and does anyone know why maximus_asinus, and seize quit LAT?
and why was Mighty fired?

You can ask Stryker why Mighty was fired, because he's the one that failed to inform me of what he was up to.
Maximus has his reasons.
Seize is still up in the air, but he doesn't like a lot of the staff rules.

And Storm, you're in denial if you believe more good has been said about your hit detection than bad. It was the same case with your movement. Meanwhile, you decided to start building your own new movement system after I had made a perfect script that we could build off of. I also just came up with a way to make it work perfectly for all speeds (those greater than or equal to 3 tiles/iteration included now). Really we'd just have to build the side movement system, and I could probably do that as well as you (considering your two leading tiles theory is completely wrong). I mean, my movement system, you can build off of reusing my movement system (sidemoving/drunk/ice/circles). The only thing I'm really afraid of scripting is the hit detection, but that doesn't mean I can't tell you a few things that you could do to improve it. Well, quite a few things if you include structure.

[StrykerTFFD]

Originally Posted by jake13jake

You can ask Stryker why Mighty was fired, because he's the one that failed to inform me of what he was up to.

I took care of it myself. If I'm going to be responsible for babysitting YOUR staff members then I'm going to take care of any issues. It's not my fault YOUR staff member abused his rights after I got him to undo what he did the first time.

I haven't been around to take care of it a second time, so get off my back for not punishing YOUR staff member.

[Luda]

Originally Posted by StrykerTFFD

I took care of it myself. If I'm going to be responsible for babysitting YOUR staff members then I'm going to take care of any issues. It's not my fault YOUR staff member abused his rights after I got him to undo what he did the first time.

I haven't been around to take care of it a second time, so get off my back for not punishing YOUR staff member.

Wanna tell me why? I'm just curious,because we lost some good LATs, forum PM or something.

[Deophite18]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

Can't, copyright infringement.



"Classic Server" is a term that was invented to distinguish between NPCServ and non-NPCServ servers. As non NPCServ servers are no longer supported, "Classic Server" has become an undefined term. Please elaborate, then, on what defines a "Classic Server".

As for it being iffy hit detection - given that every server has had to come up with their own hit detection script, I'm frankly amazed any server has GOOD hit detection. You want to do Classic a favor, ask one of the servers with a good Hit Detection system if we can borrow their script. You want to do Graal a favor, petition for a common scripting database, either to be distributed with the runtime or in a CommDlg style library in the server, but in any eventuality to grant even the newest of the new worlds commands that work - little details like movement and hit detection, foundations that they can build off of.

NPC Code:

---

join cmnmovement;

---

Classic server as in any server under the classic tab.

[Inspiration]

Originally Posted by Polo

1) We have no option but to use NPC Server.

NPC server was never stated as a bad thing. It's understandable that it will take time to convert old scripts to conform, but not THIS much time.

Originally Posted by Polo

2) Given 3 years, Tyhm's team was unable to convert all of Classic.

So that makes your lack of progress excusable?

Originally Posted by Polo

3) GMap's are good, and Stefan want's me to use them.

Then use them.

Originally Posted by Polo

4) The old bombs and bows, and explosions too, do not work on GMap's.

Then script them as close to the old ones as possible. Quite easy.

Originally Posted by Polo

5) Fixing bombs, bows and explosions requires custom hit detection.

I've seen tons of servers with GMAPs that don't have wacked out hit detection like classic.

Originally Posted by Polo

6) About 95% the old scripts/quests are incompatible with NPC Server.

And 75% of that 95% simply require serverside/clientside destinction, which is about 2 minutes of work per script.

Originally Posted by Polo

7) Many of the old quests were also buggy in concept.

Yeah, and with all the new commands, very easy to debug.

Originally Posted by Polo

8) Bringing in new players is more important than making a few old players stay.

Incorrect, when you consider the amount of new players who are joining Graal.

Appise your old player base, make them happy, and new people will be more likely to join.

No one will be attracted to a server in which the current players are not happy with.

Originally Posted by Polo

9) If it was feasible, I would prefer the old content.

It is.

Originally Posted by Polo

1) People complain that I'm not being old school because I moved the start place from Sister Gertrude's to Brothers House.

That's just people being picky over small issues, not an excuse to discount everything people say an nonsense.

Originally Posted by Polo

2) I get more positive comments on the hit detection than negative comments.

Hahahahahaha. Let's make that poll, shall we?

Originally Posted by Polo

3) I should not have ruined Supernicks by changing it without his permission, despite the fact that Supernick himself sent me the changes.

The only thing supernicks needed really was some updated scripting.

Originally Posted by Polo

4) Every playerhouse I've tried to put on the overworld has been met with complaints of unfairness.

Give some examples.

Originally Posted by Polo

5) Last year (old levels) the playercount went down. This year (new hit detection), it's gone up.

I believe your reasoning for why the playercount went up/down is kinda flawed.

Originally Posted by Polo

The problem is that people are complaining because they wan't old Classic back. Old Classic won't happen, on several reasons - the players are gone, the playercounts is down and the levels do not work. I am working hard to try and please the greatest margin of people, and to get more quests up, but I can't just magic stuff up from my back pocket.

Then try to actually accept opinions and help, and work with the people who have played this server, and who want a real classic back, instead of saying "I'm doing what I can".

I turned a whole server around in 4 months with the help of my staff and players. I updated an entire 150+ level map, added/rescripted tons of NPCs, and made mostly everyone happy.

I didnt do it by myself. I did it by LISTENING to my players, by admitting that I didnt know everything, and by actually having the desire to keep everyone happy.

[jake13jake]

Originally Posted by Inspiration

I turned a whole server around in 4 months with the help of my staff and players. I updated an entire 150+ level map, added/rescripted tons of NPCs, and made mostly everyone happy.

I didnt do it by myself. I did it by LISTENING to my players, by admitting that I didnt know everything, and by actually having the desire to keep everyone happy.

Haha, I've already turned Classic around, it's just that nobody's seen it yet. Can't somebody help me make baddies (STORM)? I'm the only scripter .

[yojimbokintoray]

lol turned classic around.. the new levels suck, if classic was turned around we would have more players on then UN. but iguess massoke and storm wont confess that there way to making classic good is just killing it more. Inspiration for manager!!!!! he knows what this server needs.

[jake13jake]

Originally Posted by yojimbokintoray

lol turned classic around.. the new levels suck, if classic was turned around we would have more players on then UN. but iguess massoke and storm wont confess that there way to making classic good is just killing it more. Inspiration for manager!!!!! he knows what this server needs.

LoLoL... My turn around for Classic is from 4 years of little progress, to lots of progress.

[maximus_asinus]

I think its rather pointless to continue debating in this thread. Each person has an opinion (while some person(s) are unfounded and obsurd, others make some very good points) but not matter what, we won't change it. Storm has given his reasoning to why he had to restart the server from scratch, and I agree with that in concept, but the number of levels he decided to bring back are few and far between, and I know we'd love to see some of the old stuff come back, and thats is precisely what Massokre is trying to do. Massokre was only hired for LAT Admin back in September, and in the two months I've worked with him, hes been very active, and has created a large amount of levels. As he expands the overworld, more of the old levels will come back (when I was extending the west coast, he selected a place for me to put Babord, and I'm sure he has other areas picked out for some of these older levels too).

As for me quiting, it may only be temporary, as I have a job interview lined up next week.

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by Polo

Kingdoms and Zone use serverside hit detection also from what I recall.

But not any of the regular-style servers.

Originally Posted by Polo

Old players will always leave eventually, lets try to get the new ones to stay, and eventually they can become old too.

New players will eventually leave as well.
In fact, players that've been playing for four-five years are more likely to keep playing in the next 2 years than ones who started playing one-two years ago.

[Minoc]

Originally Posted by jake13jake

LoLoL... My turn around for Classic is from 4 years of little progress, to lots of progress.

4 years of little progress? Classic has been changed dramaticly between 2001 and 2003.
It doesn't matter anyway, as everything has been erased.

[Polo]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

As for it being iffy hit detection - given that every server has had to come up with their own hit detection script, I'm frankly amazed any server has GOOD hit detection. You want to do Classic a favor, ask one of the servers with a good Hit Detection system if we can borrow their script.

The problem is that the hit detection is actually quite good, but because it occurs at the server, lag works differently than before. People are complaining because they can't use lag as an advantage anymore, or because thier lag makes the detection seem funny.

[jake13jake]

Originally Posted by Polo

The problem is that the hit detection is actually quite good, but because it occurs at the server, lag works differently than before. People are complaining because they can't use lag as an advantage anymore, or because thier lag makes the detection seem funny.

Actually, one way you could improve it is by doing triggeraction for the beginning and the end of the sword instead of just the beginning. Explosions work well, and projectiles... let's just make our own projectile system with v4.

[Tyhm]

It's ironic that projectiles were designed to be used with Classic Style Arrows, and that last check they didn't work with Classic's "Firing Through This Wall" genre. IMHO arrows ought to bounce of certain walls and soar over certain obstacles (bushes, pits, fences), but that's a fair degree of coding that ultimately isn't worth it.
Well, maybe not. onwall and in(this set of statically defined "wall" ids) takes about as much effort. Maybe more processor time? Who knows.
An ordered In would take log(n) time to burn through, on the other hand, but then we find ourselves asking for Stefan to create another command just to make Classic's arrows work a skoch better. It's all very silly.

[Luda]

can we make arrows stick to walls for about 5 seconds? I would try to make some neat looking graphics.