A.I.M Chat about Graal Forums

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by konidias


Oh I see. So how are we to know which way to give our opinions? Oh wait, I know. Because you're going to determine for yourself, whether or not you think our opinion is given in a way that you agree with.

For ones like you whom seem to need to have their post governed for lack of mature responsible posting , yes I think you have the idea..

[unixmad]

It's interesting to see how You and some others leave and come back after a few weeks.

My point of view is your tooth are not big enough to hit me because if it were you will have eaten me since a while. Personaly i will never eat you because it will really taste bad.

Also You are just going nowhere attacking me but to a point of no return.

So what are you expecting from me ? Perhaps are you worried to not be in the list of 4 people i have banned since 6 year i manage Graal ?

Originally posted by konidias


Keyword "yet". It's kind of disappointing how the owner stifles the opinions of the very people he should be wanting them from. I want to buy Unixmad a bumper sticker that instead of saying "How's my Driving?" says, "How's my Managing?"

But this has gone on for years, so it's nothing new. People always wonder why staff quit out of the blue... Like me... Kaimetsu... Alkaren... etc. I'll tell you one thing, it's sure not because we've stopped liking Graal itself.

[Hevaricubed]

Originally posted by unixmad
My point of view is your tooth are not big enough to hit me because if it were you will have eaten me since a while. Personaly i will never eat you because it will really taste bad.

unix.. what does this mean? :|

[unixmad]

That's just another way to explain how power hungry people are thinking. Probably not in a perfect English also Just the translation of my mind when i was reading the thread.

Originally posted by Hevaricubed


unix.. what does this mean? :|

[Kaimetsu]

Unixmad, hi, nice to see you. I understand that you don't like to see this kind of discussion on the board, but what other option do we have? I sent you a PM a few days ago and you still haven't read it. How are we supposed to voice our concerns?

Contrary to what you may think, we're not doing this as a way to attack you. Some of us feel a little bitter, but that's just a secondary matter. We're doing this because we want the board to be moderated properly. In essence, our goal is the same as yours: A happy, well-managed community which will complement the game itself.

Sure, complaining will create some short-term, temporary hostility. But isn't that better than a long, drawn-out dissatisfaction?

Originally posted by Milkdude99
In this case I disagree with your assessment, to bring in an outsider who knows nothing about the game also doesn't know any of the problems with it and why sometimes people do what they do, even if it is illegal on the Board.

You didn't really express yourself very clearly here. R0bin's story is pertinent, because it's almost identical to the situation here. Ignoring the problem may eventually make things less hectic, but it won't be any kind of solution.

The biggest problem is that most on here will not accept Graal as a Commercial game and still try to treat it as a "Free Game".

Um. On the contrary, the problem is that they don't think it's professional enough. This isn't about strictness, it's about uneven moderation and illogical rulings.

It is not here for personal flame wars and people who want to complain about every little thing.

"Every little thing"? Other than you two (and the people I banned, obviously) people rarely complained about my work. It was certainly never on the scale that the new supermods have achieved. What's the difference? Simple: The new supermods are making mistakes, and making the board a less fun environment.

Now, I'm not saying we should flame them for this. I'm not saying we should hunt them down and crucify them. We know that Unixmad isn't going to remove them (it's a matter of pride now), so the next best thing is to educate them. They don't understand the rules, so we explain them. All we ask in return is that they listen, and allow themselves to be taught. So far we haven't seen that.

Before you complain about the Forums, ask yourself "whom have I tried to help today?" "Am I part of the problem or part of the solution?"

Would ignoring the problem make me part of the solution? When you were dissatisfied with my performance as supermod, did you ignore it? Whom did you help on all those days? You complained both privately and publically, you have no right to condemn others for doing the same.

If you concentrate effort more on helping and less on complaining then you may find this Forum taking a change for the better and be a happier place to be on and post.

Being nice to everybody won't magically turn the moderators into competent people. Their mistakes and their laziness are real problems, and they need to be fixed. Your suggestion would merely give them free reign to moderate as poorly as before.

Originally posted by protagonist
How do you make someone look bad? By attacking them.

Is that the only way? You're not stupid, don't pretend to be.

What is against the rules? Flaming.

Incorrect.

Originally posted by Darlene159
No, what I meant by "mega quotes" is someone who had about 4 quotes in one post, with no input from the member at all, only the 4 quotes.

Why do you consider that spam? More to the point, why do you excuse the lazier version where they quote only one person?

[Hevaricubed]

Originally posted by unixmad
That's just another way to explain how power hungry people are thinking. Probably not in a perfect English also Just the translation of my mind when i was reading the thread.

Oh! i understand, its a strange analogy biut i suppose its suitable for power-hungryness

[unixmad]

Kaimetsu, it is not fair to not give a chance to a team and complain about them after only a few days.

I have always supported you when you were moderator and trust me that i add lot of complain about you ! So i am really disapointed when i see you attacking people like that.

That's just going nowhere just ruining the friendship of this forum.

So please let the new team show what they can do and let's come back speaking about Graal and not forums rules.

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


You didn't really express yourself very clearly here. R0bin's story is pertinent, because it's almost identical to the situation here. Ignoring the problem may eventually make things less hectic, but it won't be any kind of solution.



Um. On the contrary, the problem is that they don't think it's professional enough. This isn't about strictness, it's about uneven moderation and illogical rulings.



"Every little thing"? Other than you two (and the people I banned, obviously) people rarely complained about my work. It was certainly never on the scale that the new supermods have achieved. What's the difference? Simple: The new supermods are making mistakes, and making the board a less fun environment.

Now, I'm not saying we should flame them for this. I'm not saying we should hunt them down and crucify them. We know that Unixmad isn't going to remove them (it's a matter of pride now), so the next best thing is to educate them. They don't understand the rules, so we explain them. All we ask in return is that they listen, and allow themselves to be taught. So far we haven't seen that.



Would ignoring the problem make me part of the solution? When you were dissatisfied with my performance as supermod, did you ignore it? Whom did you help on all those days? You complained both privately and publically, you have no right to condemn others for doing the same.



Being nice to everybody won't magically turn the moderators into competent people. Their mistakes and their laziness are real problems, and they need to be fixed. Your suggestion would merely give them free reign to moderate as poorly as before.

[Hevaricubed]

On that note..

Where is graal3d + graalv3 with new scripting? :'(

[Lance]

Originally posted by unixmad
Kaimetsu, it is not fair to not give a chance to a team and complain about them after only a few days.

I have always supported you when you were moderator and trust me that i add lot of complain about you ! So i am really disapointed when i see you attacking people like that.

That's just going nowhere just ruining the friendship of this forums.

So please let the new team show what they can do and let's come back speaking about Graal and not forums rules.

But, unixmad...how many of those complaints about Kaimetsu were valid? It's not the number of complaints that matters - it's the validity of them.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by unixmad
Kaimetsu, it is not fair to not give a chance to a team and complain about them after only a few days.

Unixmad, there have been many examples of places where they have made bad decisions. Even after we have tried to point out their mistakes, they continue to do it. All we are trying to do, then, is educate them and help them learn to do their jobs properly.

I have always supported you when you were moderator

You think so? You never thanked me, you never acknowledged me, you never gave me the tools I needed. What kind of 'support' do you mean?

and trust me that i add lot of complain about you !

Of course, but most of them were either:

A) From Moon God or Moon Goddess, who hated me because I didn't censor every little negativity (which, believe me, would only serve to create a greater feeling of hostility).
B) From somebody I banned for breaking the rules, or somebody whose friend was banned.

The majority of the users supported me, which should tell you something about my success as supermod. On the other hand, only the tiniest minority supports the new administration.

So i am really disapointed when i see you attacking people like that.

That's just going nowhere just ruining the friendship of this forums.

I don't see it as a simple attack. I criticise them because I want them to improve. I have a lot of experience and they have very little. Don't you think there's at least something I can teach them?

So please let the new team show what they can do

They've already shown what they can and will do. That's what we're worried about.

[unixmad]

I will not go on a private talk with you on public forums but what other tools than the normal vbulletin tools did you need ?

Also if you think that supporting you for months and months as supermod on forums is not thanking you for the good work, then what were you expecting from me ?

I known that you are not friend with Moon God or Moon Goddess but they are all 2 like you, old graal supporters and i personaly trust them, what is very important to me.

Also it's easy to understand why most managers prefer to choose people they trust for important tasks, so it's not a community choise but a personal choise.

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


Unixmad, there have been many examples of places where they have made bad decisions. Even after we have tried to point out their mistakes, they continue to do it. All we are trying to do, then, is educate them and help them learn to do their jobs properly.



You think so? You never thanked me, you never acknowledged me, you never gave me the tools I needed. What kind of 'support' do you mean?



Of course, but most of them were either:

A) From Moon God or Moon Goddess, who hated me because I didn't censor every little negativity (which, believe me, would only serve to create a greater feeling of hostility).
B) From somebody I banned for breaking the rules, or somebody whose friend was banned.

The majority of the users supported me, which should tell you something about my success as supermod. On the other hand, only the tiniest minority supports the new administration.



I don't see it as a simple attack. I criticise them because I want them to improve. I have a lot of experience and they have very little. Don't you think there's at least something I can teach them?



They've already shown what they can and will do. That's what we're worried about.

[Hevaricubed]

people.. go to bed, kaimetsu, its 3 in the morning, unixmad, its 4 in the morning... tempers are made shorter by lack of sleep.

[unixmad]

So true...

Good night everyone.

Originally posted by Hevaricubed
people.. go to bed, kaimetsu, its 3 in the morning, unixmad, its 4 in the morning... tempers are made shorter by lack of sleep.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by unixmad
I will not go on a private talk with you on public forums

I'm happy to take this to whatever medium you want.

but what other tools than the normal vbulletin tools did you need ?

Without admin access, I was unable to:

• Unban people
• Add/remove moderators
• Edit users' sigs or profiles (if somebody had an illegal sig, I couldn't remove it)

These restrictions drastically slowed me down, as I had no choice but to work through the often-unreachable admins.

Also if you think that supporting you for months and months as supermod on forums is not thanking you for the good work, then what were you expecting from me ?

How did you support me?

I known that you are not friend with Moon God or Moon Goddess but they are all 2 like you, old graal supporters and i personaly trust them, what is very important to me.

You can trust them to some extent, yes. They won't go crazy and start deleting the board, because they're more responsible than that. Indeed, they probably won't do anything corrupt if they can't find some way justify it to themselves.

But selection of supermods is in the past now. I know that they won't be removed in the near future, however much I disagree with the decision to hire them. So instead I try to help them see the error in their actions, that they might learn to moderate better. Is this an ignoble goal? All we want is a fair, friendly forum, just like you.

Also it's easy to understand why most managers prefer to choose people they trust for important tasks, so it's not a community choise but a personal choise.

Trust is important, yes. But you would benefit greatly from listening to your users - especially those who've supported Graal in the past. Almost all of the forum oldbies would agree that Kamuii is a better choice. He has the experience, the intelligence and the integrity to be a first-class supermod.

As well as issues of competence, you have to realise that you can't see every side of a player's personality. You trusted Nemesis because he only showed you one side of himself. The players knew that he was corrupt and inept, because they saw his true nature through his actions. If you had listened to them, we could've avoided the nasty circumstances surrounding his departure.

I understand your reluctance to rely on the community for this kind of thing, but you could at least consult a few trusted members? It's a powerful resource, and currently you're not taking advantage of it.

Originally posted by Hevaricubed
people.. go to bed, kaimetsu, its 3 in the morning, unixmad, its 4 in the morning... tempers are made shorter by lack of sleep.

Nocturnal, man. This is morning for me.

[marcoR]

I let stuff go for a while, to see if they would get used to it, and just when it seemed to be changing it went back to point A. It's nice to see Unixmad entering the discussion, and I understood everything he said, but... somethings just didn't make sense, even in English. If Kaimetsu would come back, as supermod I would literally crawl into a corner, rock back and forth muttering "The second coming is upon us" and slowly druel myself to a wet, saliva filled death. I can't see that happening, not because of him tho. You know if you make a good choice, people will forget the bad ones, Unixmad?


[EDIT]

You may not have seen all I said earlier, they were deleted, that's not a complaint.. I just want you to know.

[/EDIT]