Us, the players, cheated YET AGAIN?! - Page 3

Artificial_Sweetener · #1 05-18-2002, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

Why, I do believe that it's because brats like Mman couldn't get the attention they crave from Sony or other large companies.

Because they would simply ignore him but People like you that contribute to smaller companies like this Provide enough Attention to 'them' while they Rant on about the release date that has been delayed so many of a time. :o

Artificial_Sweetener · #2 05-18-2002, 06:57 AM

Here we go agian -.-

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

When it wasn't finished? You extolled the benefits of not releasing buggy code, yet you're saying this is what Graal should do.

He never said it was buggy until AFTER it was delayed. The thing is that He KNEW IT WAS BUGGY.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

HOW THE HELL DO YOU THINK HE ARRIVED AT THAT DATE? THERE ARE NO CRYSTAL BALLS IN THIS PROCESS. IF IT WAS ALREADY FINISHED THEN HE'D HAVE RELEASED IT THEN, BUT HE GAVE US A DATE IN THE ASSUMPTION THAT PEOPLE WOULD HAVE THE BRAINS TO REALISE THAT IT WAS ONLY A PREDICTION.

Have you forgotten it was suposed to be released as an Alpha Test, Hmm? Well the Entire point of an Alpha Test is to Locate the Bugs and work them out. Besides he never made any Assumptions, He simply said that it would be released on the 13th, Notice how I've bolded Would be =)

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

SORRY FOR YELLING

Your Forgiven

Mman · #3 05-18-2002, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

Whereas you are attacking Graal for doing the exact same thing!

I seriously hope that isn't all they are doing.

If it is, they've done it enough and should let the players assist them in the testing by giving them an alpha release.

Xerphier Dintch · #4 05-18-2002, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

I think "cheated" is a wrong and very unfair word. They didn't do this to get anything from you, it was just delayed because it wasn't finished.

They have our money.

freddyfox · #5 05-18-2002, 09:42 AM

Just incase you all forgot, you get the PRIVILEGE of ALPHA TESTING THIS. Stefan COULD just always say "Maybe I should test it on my own" and you would all be out of luck.

Shut up and wait for it. Don't try and blemish everything that's given to you because it doesn't come when you want it to.

Artificial_Sweetener · #6 05-18-2002, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by freddyfox
because it doesn't come when you want it to.

When we want to? He told us several times already that it would be out in so and so but then Turns around and Delays it because It's too buggy Even though he KNEW it was too buggy before the Release date.

freddyfox · #7 05-18-2002, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Artificial_Sweetener

When we want to? He told us several times already that it would be out in so and so but then Turns around and Delays it because It's too buggy Even though he KNEW it was too buggy before the Release date.

And you know it's because of bugs how again?

Mman · #8 05-18-2002, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by freddyfox
Just incase you all forgot, you get the PRIVILEGE of ALPHA TESTING THIS. Stefan COULD just always say "Maybe I should test it on my own" and you would all be out of luck.

Shut up and wait for it. Don't try and blemish everything that's given to you because it doesn't come when you want it to.

I have waited, but it's taken long enough. What has made them delay it so much? My bet is that they are incompetent and are not working on it. Anyone know what the release date is now? I'd like to know when I can expect to hear the news that 2k2 has been delayed yet again.

Artificial_Sweetener · #9 05-18-2002, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by freddyfox

And you know it's because of bugs how again?

He even told us in a Mass Message on 2k1 =/

Artificial_Sweetener · #10 05-18-2002, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mman

I have waited, but it's taken long enough. What has made them delay it so much? My bet is that they are incompetent and are not working on it. Anyone know what the release date is now? I'd like to know when I can expect to hear the news that 2k2 has been delayed yet again.

I remember hearing something about it being out on sunday

nyghtGT · #11 05-18-2002, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by UrashimaX
Uh - Is NewWorld going to come out? I really don't think so :/

true dat!

freddyfox · #12 05-18-2002, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Artificial_Sweetener

He even told us in a Mass Message on 2k1 =/

Yes, there are bugs, there could also be a crapload of other reasons why this is delayed. I honestly doubt Stefan or unixmad would delay it just to laugh and say "Ha ha poor G2K1 suckers!"

Quote:

Originally dreamt up by Mman

My bet is that they are incompetent and are not working on it.

Learn some respect, son, THEN come back here and talk to me.

Artificial_Sweetener · #13 05-18-2002, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by freddyfox

Yes, there are bugs, there could also be a crapload of other reasons why this is delayed. I honestly doubt Stefan or unixmad would delay it just to laugh and say "Ha ha poor G2K1 suckers!"

Yes It's true their could have been other reasons but The For the Most part, Bugs Were the Main Reason why the yet Agian, Delayed it.

Quote:

Originally posted by freddyfox

Learn some respect, son, THEN come back here and talk to me.

Respect???! HaHaHa!!!
And when did you become his Father 0.o?

Xerphier Dintch · #14 05-18-2002, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by freddyfox
Don't try and blemish everything that's given to you because it doesn't come when you want it to.

It isn't given to us, we paid for it.

freddyfox · #15 05-18-2002, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Xerphier Dintch

It isn't given to us, we paid for it.

Tell me where it says "Oh, and by paying for graal, we promise you get to ALPHA TEST G2K2!"

nyghtGT · #16 05-18-2002, 01:15 PM

One thing I dislike, is, that how lacking customer support is ...
I pay real money to play this game and when things go wrong I would like to have them dealt with quickly. Not having to wait for whenever someone who can fix my problems feels like getting on or whenever they are not "busy."

Terazel Tenjin · #17 05-18-2002, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by freddyfox

Tell me where it says "Oh, and by paying for graal, we promise you get to ALPHA TEST G2K2!"

Doesn't it say when you pay for an account that part of the p2p payment includes however many months of 2k2, while the rests of the money is # of months for 2k1 and lifetime for Classic?

Edit: And since it isn't even up, why do we have to pay for it as part of the entire payment plan?

toad1413 · #18 05-18-2002, 01:29 PM

Yes, we were cheated. He gave us his word.

Oh, and you're saying ALPHA TESTING IS SUPPOSED TO BE BUG FREE?! Anyone who thinks that is a complete and utter idiot. What do you think Alpha testing is for?! ALPHA TESTING IS USED SO PEOPLE OTHER THAN THE DEVELOPERS CAN TEST IT, AND FIND AND REPORT BUGS. If this was the final release, THEN it'd have to be bug-less. BUT THIS IS ONLY ALPHA TESTING GODDAMNIT! We test it, TO FIND THE BLOODY BUGS.

Terazel Tenjin · #19 05-18-2002, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toad1413
Yes, we were cheated. He gave us his word.

Oh, and you're saying ALPHA TESTING IS SUPPOSED TO BE BUG FREE?! Anyone who thinks that is a complete and utter idiot. What do you think Alpha testing is for?! ALPHA TESTING IS USED SO PEOPLE OTHER THAN THE DEVELOPERS CAN TEST IT, AND FIND AND REPORT BUGS. If this was the final release, THEN it'd have to be bug-less. BUT THIS IS ONLY ALPHA TESTING GODDAMNIT! We test it, TO FIND THE BLOODY BUGS.

No, dude. I am pretty sure alpha testing is for developers/people close to the development team only, and beta (or open beta) is for the public to test it to the max and find/report any bugs they encounter. I think it can also go into meta (Tribes 2?), but I don't rightly know what that part of the process is exactly.

ZanderX · #20 05-18-2002, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toad1413
Yes, we were cheated. He gave us his word.

Oh, and you're saying ALPHA TESTING IS SUPPOSED TO BE BUG FREE?! Anyone who thinks that is a complete and utter idiot. What do you think Alpha testing is for?! ALPHA TESTING IS USED SO PEOPLE OTHER THAN THE DEVELOPERS CAN TEST IT, AND FIND AND REPORT BUGS. If this was the final release, THEN it'd have to be bug-less. BUT THIS IS ONLY ALPHA TESTING GODDAMNIT! We test it, TO FIND THE BLOODY BUGS.

No offense, Nick, but...

you need to slide into the real world...

which has many situations quite like this...

nyghtGT · #21 05-18-2002, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZanderX

No offense, Nick, but...

you need to slide into the real world...

which has many situations quite like this...

i think its that nerd issue thing of his again...

toad1413 · #22 05-18-2002, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZanderX

No offense, Nick, but...

you need to slide into the real world...

which has many situations quite like this...

Yeah... it does. Sorry. I'm just feeling sick, and when I'm sick, I get moody, and easily annoyed. Sorry.

But Alpha testing can be public, take ragnarok for example. That had public alpha testing. alpha testing it to find the major bugs, when there's really only about a third of the total thing done, and up. Here, I'll grab one of my dad's computer magazines and copy out what it says alpha testing and beta testing is, according to the manager of computing facilities at the UNSW School of Computer Science:

"Alpha software is still in early stages of development, with little or no functionality; beta software is working sufficiently that it can be tested by experienced users for the purpose of finding and resolving 'bugs'. Occasionally there is a gamma release of software for a final testing phase. Generally, any Greek-letter release is a pre-publication test release for in-house testing or for testing by experienced users."

And, as such, it doesn't have to be bug free, for it is a public alpha testing stage.

Kaimetsu · #23 05-18-2002, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toad1413
Yes, we were cheated. He gave us his word.

He did no such thing. He gave us a prediction.

Quote:

Oh, and you're saying ALPHA TESTING IS SUPPOSED TO BE BUG FREE?! Anyone who thinks that is a complete and utter idiot. What do you think Alpha testing is for?! ALPHA TESTING IS USED SO PEOPLE OTHER THAN THE DEVELOPERS CAN TEST IT, AND FIND AND REPORT BUGS. If this was the final release, THEN it'd have to be bug-less. BUT THIS IS ONLY ALPHA TESTING GODDAMNIT! We test it, TO FIND THE BLOODY BUGS.

BUT! The reason he's delaying it is that there are bugs that he already knows about. Alpha testing finds bugs, yes, but there's no point doing it if you've already got enough bugs to fix.

Mman · #24 05-18-2002, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by freddyfox
Learn some respect, son, THEN come back here and talk to me.

Respect? I had respect for staff who is "working hard" on 2k2, then they gave us this "we're working on it" crap, and nothing else except more delays. How the hell can I respect a team of ppl who have brought the players nothing but delays and frustration so far? I can't. If you think I should respect them, go tell someone who cares.

Artificial_Sweetener · #25 05-18-2002, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by toad1413
Yes, we were cheated. He gave us his word.

Oh, and you're saying ALPHA TESTING IS SUPPOSED TO BE BUG FREE?! Anyone who thinks that is a complete and utter idiot. What do you think Alpha testing is for?! ALPHA TESTING IS USED SO PEOPLE OTHER THAN THE DEVELOPERS CAN TEST IT, AND FIND AND REPORT BUGS. If this was the final release, THEN it'd have to be bug-less. BUT THIS IS ONLY ALPHA TESTING GODDAMNIT! We test it, TO FIND THE BLOODY BUGS.

Exactly

Artificial_Sweetener · #26 05-18-2002, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

He did no such thing. He gave us a prediction.

No he told us that IT WILL be released on the Thirteenth, He never said that We are hoping for it to be or That We think it will be Released.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

BUT! The reason he's delaying it is that there are bugs that he already knows about. Alpha testing finds bugs, yes, but there's no point doing it if you've already got enough bugs to fix.

If he already knew about them, Why tell us that it will be released??

Mman · #27 05-18-2002, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

He did no such thing. He gave us a prediction.

Apparently he sucks at predictions then, and no one should believe them.

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

BUT! The reason he's delaying it is that there are bugs that he already knows about. Alpha testing finds bugs, yes, but there's no point doing it if you've already got enough bugs to fix.

Not true, a player can still identify bugs even if there are known bugs to the staff. The fact that he has bugs to fix now means nothing at all, players should still have an alpha test, he should just post all the bugs he knows about. If he keeps waiting he will keep finding more bugs and therefore will keep delaying it and keep pissing more and more people off.

Artificial_Sweetener · #28 05-18-2002, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mman

If he keeps waiting he will keep finding more bugs and therefore will keep delaying it and keep pissing more and more people off.

Too late X-x

nyghtGT · #29 05-19-2002, 12:30 AM

I agree it is dis-appointing that things have been delayed, but there is no need to ***** and moan about it to each other, if you have a problem just say it and don't make it a personal issue.

Xerphier Dintch · #30 05-19-2002, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by freddyfox

Tell me where it says "Oh, and by paying for graal, we promise you get to ALPHA TEST G2K2!"

It obviously states that right here.

Quote:

Originally posted on Graal2001.com.
13 MAY 2002

We will release Alpha testing of Graal2002

Mman · #31 05-19-2002, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by nyghtGT
I agree it is dis-appointing that things have been delayed, but there is no need to ***** and moan about it to each other, if you have a problem just say it and don't make it a personal issue.

Ok let me mention this, first delay that was all there was, now for the 5th or 6th delay, ppl are running out of patience.

Kaimetsu · #32 05-19-2002, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Artificial_Sweetener

No he told us that IT WILL be released on the Thirteenth, He never said that We are hoping for it to be or That We think it will be Released.

If he already knew about them, Why tell us that it will be released??

Since you don't know what a release date is and refuse to learn, I will ignore your input.

Quote:

Originally posted by Mman

Apparently he sucks at predictions then, and no one should believe them.

Then don't!

Quote:

Originally posted by Mman
Not true, a player can still identify bugs even if there are known bugs to the staff. The fact that he has bugs to fix now means nothing at all, players should still have an alpha test, he should just post all the bugs he knows about. If he keeps waiting he will keep finding more bugs and therefore will keep delaying it and keep pissing more and more people off.

If there are known bugs then the workers have to work to fix them, whether or not there are players on the server. You can bet that a bug will be found within a few hours of play, so it's not like they need lots of time to start submitting the lil' devils. Letting players on while the server is buggy just makes for an unpleasant experience for them.

*shrugs*

You think he should release it, I don't. There's no inherent right or wrong in this situation anyway.

Artificial_Sweetener · #33 05-19-2002, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

Since you don't know what a release date is and refuse to learn, I will ignore your input.

Mman · #34 05-19-2002, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

If there are known bugs then the workers have to work to fix them, whether or not there are players on the server. You can bet that a bug will be found within a few hours of play, so it's not like they need lots of time to start submitting the lil' devils. Letting players on while the server is buggy just makes for an unpleasant experience for them.

Apparently more players prefer the "unpleasant experiance" of playing on a buggy server than the even more unpleasant experiance of waiting so damn long to play on anything at all.

*shrugs*

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaimetsu
You think he should release it, I don't. There's no inherent right or wrong in this situation anyway.

Yes there is, stefan said 2k2 would be released on that date, no ifs, ands, or buts. He is wrong to delay it, and the players who are running out of patience are right to be angry.

Mman · #35 05-19-2002, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

Since you don't know what a release date is and refuse to learn, I will ignore your input.

I know what you think a release date is, but I know it is when a product is actually released, not when the company "predicts" it to be finished. If every game was not released until it was completely bug free there would be no need to download a patch. However companies are smart enough to know that if there are still bugs and the release date comes, you release it with the bugs, then put a patch on the game's website to fix those bugs.

Kaimetsu · #36 05-20-2002, 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mman

I know what you think a release date is, but I know it is when a product is actually released, not when the company "predicts" it to be finished. If every game was not released until it was completely bug free there would be no need to download a patch. However companies are smart enough to know that if there are still bugs and the release date comes, you release it with the bugs, then put a patch on the game's website to fix those bugs.

Since you don't know what a release date is and refuse to learn, I will ignore your input.

Artificial_Sweetener · #37 05-20-2002, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

Since you don't know what a release date is and refuse to learn, I will ignore your input.

Just let this Thread Die