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  #1  
Old 01-03-2002, 11:53 PM
konidias konidias is offline
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Exclamation What has Graal become?

Posting this for the FOURTH time.. without anything to do with 2k2 staff or any other reason I can see it would be deleted because of unreleased 2k2 information

Graal is falling apart more and more each day. This is purely my opinion, and I'm nothing I'm saying is FACT or anything.. but please keep in mind what I say, as I'm sure some of you will agree with me.

Back in the days before P2P, playing on Graal was fun. The occasional hacker killing everyone was the only bad part. Besides that, guilds actually had a meaning, instead of just having a tag at the end of your name, you would actually be part of the guild, maybe have a guild area on the map, etc. Sparring was great, now it's nothing.. I used to do nothing but spar back before P2P, and I enjoyed every match. It was fun when you could just go to a spar arena somewhere, and line up with others to fight one on one in unofficial matches. Nowadays no one cares to spar, they just care about money, and if there is a spar event, it's for money, and it's always ruined by people shooting fireballs, etc.

Graal2001 was okay at first, but it has seemed to get worse every day, even though so many new things are added. The changing of bomy pets from their original version actually made them worse then before. Right about when golf came out, the minigame revolution began and we ended up with go-kart racing and football, which barely anyone plays anymore. (whatever happened to racing teams and football teams?) The events team has gotten terrible, they say the reason they hold cs and survivor is because that's what everyone asks for.. well no crap, if they haven't played the other events in so long, they wouldn't remember how fun they were.

The staff got worse, and so did the players, the forums turned into a battlefield (and still are) and are no longer enjoyable to me anymore. When hats were released in limited quantities, that started the money era. Now nearly everyone are greedy backstabbers, and no one cares to do anything but make more money and get more items. When objects and gralat became so desirable, "corruption" started to occur more.. most of it just being accusations of others being corrupt.. sometimes players would call other players corrupt just because the other player had a lot of money.

Now I get on each day, and find nothing at all to do. Everyone is too busy making money and scamming/finding ways to cheat to actually RP or just sit around and talk. Mass messages are a joke, they are nothing but filth, arguements, advertisements, and annoying "support my guild" messages. Toalls are just another form of communicating with others for the sheer point of arguing and fighting, and telling everyone else how much of a loser someone else is.

Nearly all of P2P players do nothing but argue and hate others now. No matter what you post on the forums someone tells you to shut up and die. It's ridiculous and definitely not what I thought my money was paying for.

Not to mention G2k2.. oh boy.. I'm sure a lot of you will say I'm wrong here, but I envisioned something a lot different for the next generation of Graal.. it's seriously disappointing in every single aspect. Stefan doesn't seem to really know what he is doing in the game development area. The graphics in 2k2 are good, I admit, but they do not fit well at all with the characters or terrain. Why doesn't Stefan improve Graal as a whole? He might have made the new 3d terrain stuff, but when the hell is he going to make a better way of layering? Why can't he make tiles that lay over the player sprite? It would decrease the need to use npc images, and the environment would be so much more realistic (walking behind trees and buildings without needing npcs for everything)

Then there is server scripting.. I find it nearly impossible to work with, there are so many little things that would improve the system overall. Why not have variables that save to the npc on the level, and can be read clientside AND serverside? Instead of being able to do simple things like having lights come on outside of a house when you turn lights on inside, it takes using workarounds and npc save variables which are troublesome and not documented well.

He still hasn't improved the playerlist by adding new features such as making your own user groups like the buddies group. I admit I like the new features on the level editor, they help a lot, but the new version of graal has a lot of editor glitches and I get headaches when I load my level and it turns into nothing but the left grass tile. Some of these things just really aggravate me as to why Stefan doesn't see these things and fix them. Even the player profile could be made to look so much better with more options and things, and when will Stefan ever make it so we can put php code or something on a webpage and have our stats show up there?

Then there is the level generator.. wouldn't a level generator program be SO MUCH BETTER then drawing your level in a paint program? Just take a look a this example. Why not have it so players can pick a tile (such as tree, dirt, water, grass) and when they use their mouse on the level, it draws the map out dynamically? It would make the worlds much more realistic and have much more detail with less glitches and people wouldn't think level generated worlds are bad anymore.

There are so many things that could be improved it just boggles my mind.. the more I research and learn about game development, the more things I see about Graal I don't like. Whenever I get skilled enough with programming I will be able to put my visions of a good game into light. In my opinion Stefan has bad taste in graphics and style. You think with all the money they pull in, they could hire a good team of people to work for them doing art and levels and things, and stop hiring kids to work for free, making not so great stuff yet Stefan adds it anyway because he doesn't feel like paying people to do better?

Why doesn't Stefan expand the tileset? Why must we use the same tiles for everything? What if we don't want to "addtiledef"? I want new houses, new trees, new bushes and things.. without having to replace other tiles that people also like. If Cyberjouer is such a professional game company, why doesn't Stefan hire more programmers for the actual game? (not npc scripters I mean delphi/c++ programmers)

{edited out because I can't voice my opinion on 2k2 staff}

I just wish Cyberjouer would become better as a company, and actually care about it's customers needs instead of making what THEY think is best.

I think I will be taking a time off from Graal as a player and as staff unless it shapes up and becomes the game that it should be, which is fun and exciting, not the same thing and boring, with jackass players and corrupt staff.

I know some of you could care less about my opinions and that is fine, who am I to talk about game development? I just want to make a career out of it, but I guess since I didn't make Graal, then I'm not as good as Stefan. I feel so limited working for Graal, in level making, in graphics, in scripting.. it's all limiting.

Oh and for the people that reply to this without reading it all.. please continue going to school, as your mind obviously can't handle reading a page of text.
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  #2  
Old 01-03-2002, 11:54 PM
Kumada Kumada is offline
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Jeese Koni.. I agree with you and all but are you trying to get yourself banned.. Stefan has deleted the thread around 3 times.. i think this time he will delete it and ban you.
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  #3  
Old 01-03-2002, 11:56 PM
konidias konidias is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kumada
Jeese Koni.. I agree with you and all but are you trying to get yourself banned here?
For what? My opinion on how I think Graal could be better?
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Old 01-03-2002, 11:56 PM
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I sort of agree, especially about the level generator part, although it should have some kind of "Detail" mode in it.
I think resizing the tileset is possible, although I'm not sure and haven't tested it. (I'm basing this off of the size of Graal2002 picso.png in comparison to pics1.png)

Oh and once again:
Dejá Vu!
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Old 01-03-2002, 11:58 PM
Vyse_the_Blue_Rogue Vyse_the_Blue_Rogue is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by konidias


For what? My opinion on how I think Graal could be better?
exactly, its the statement that graal is not perfect and that you have an opinion that gets you banned.
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  #6  
Old 01-04-2002, 12:00 AM
konidias konidias is offline
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*waits for Stefan to delete the thread again and make up another reason*

I probably WILL be banned for my opinion.. which is the sad part.

You don't see other games banning players for posting links to competitors or stating their opinion.. Why would the game company even care unless they knew the other game was better then theirs or something? I mean why worry about losing business if your game is a sure thing?
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  #7  
Old 01-04-2002, 12:04 AM
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I don't know about the rest of you but Koni is right. I didn't pay this money to get jackass service. And just to get banned and losing my money over my opinion to try and make Graal better. We should be able to add our own servers again. That would make you able to keep jackasses that you don't want to play with and just play with your friends on your own servers.
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  #8  
Old 01-04-2002, 12:05 AM
AlkarenHyralt AlkarenHyralt is offline
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There are people who try to help Graal in whatever way they can (like me). I volunteer to help with the forums and keep them fixed and such. Yet I am ignored, and called power hungry or that it is my burning ambition or whatever.

When people don't see everything as a quest for power, and true help is actually reconized and welcomed, only then will Graal get better; never before that.
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  #9  
Old 01-04-2002, 12:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by AlkarenHyralt
There are people who try to help Graal in whatever way they can (like me). I volunteer to help with the forums and keep them fixed and such. Yet I am ignored, and called power hungry or that it is my burning ambition or whatever.

When people don't see everything as a quest for power, and true help is actually reconized and welcomed, only then will Graal get better; never before that.
Amen.
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  #10  
Old 01-04-2002, 12:06 AM
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There should be a seperate client.. that lets you make your own server and stuff so u can hang out with friends and test scripts..
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  #11  
Old 01-04-2002, 12:07 AM
PlasmaDestroyer PlasmaDestroyer is offline
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We can on 1.31 and 1.28 but Stefan says it's illegal for some reason.
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  #12  
Old 01-04-2002, 12:08 AM
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Re: What has Graal become?

I don't think people were better before p2p,
they just care now more about what they own in the
game. I know there are some things that need to be
made better, that's why we work on it
Don't know why you say I have a bad gfx taste
*have added your new trees to the tileset*

Layering: Is very slow on normal gfx cards
Supporting more tiles: there are already many
tiles available, adding even more standard tiles
would even take more resources; when doing a house
or overworld you normally don't need ALL tiles
so addtiledef should be all you need, it works well
with the Graal2002 houses where we currently only
use 10% of the tiles space
Playerlist: You wanted to send me a list with things
I should add :/

If you think things are limited then please work
together with us to improve it. Don't know if its good to
say that the players are bad, we make the game for the
players to play it :/
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  #13  
Old 01-04-2002, 12:09 AM
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Ok, Stefan, Your REALLY learning. Thank you for hearing us out and giving a reason to what you do that seems pointless to us....Thank You.
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  #14  
Old 01-04-2002, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by konidias
*waits for Stefan to delete the thread again and make up another reason*

I probably WILL be banned for my opinion.. which is the sad part.

You don't see other games banning players for posting links to competitors or stating their opinion.. Why would the game company even care unless they knew the other game was better then theirs or something? I mean why worry about losing business if your game is a sure thing?
Other games don't host official forums

We cannot allow other companies advertising here!
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  #15  
Old 01-04-2002, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by grim_squeaker_x
Dejá Vu!
A deja Vu is a glitch in the matrix! ITS A TRAP!
sorry. yes i agree completely here with koni, but sad to say you probably will et banned nice knowing you!
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  #16  
Old 01-04-2002, 12:11 AM
AlkarenHyralt AlkarenHyralt is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by PlasmaDestroyer


Amen.
Seriously. Most of the players call us staff corrupt, no matter what the reason. 90% of the time it isn't corrupt in the least bit. But the word corrupt, in itself, has been corrupted to mean something totally different and has almost lost all meaning at the same time. Because such a thing has happened whenever someone wants to help, people think that they just want power. This prevents such people from helping. It's not about power always, and it's not always about money. People just assume though that everything is.
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Old 01-04-2002, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Stefan


Other games don't host official forums

We cannot allow other companies advertising here!
Actually Ultima Online, for example, have their own forums. I've heard that Ragnarok has too, although I'm not sure about that.
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Old 01-04-2002, 12:13 AM
AlkarenHyralt AlkarenHyralt is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Stefan


Other games don't host official forums

We cannot allow other companies advertising here!
Actually quite a few do. Not always vBulletin; usually free message board software.
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Old 01-04-2002, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by AlkarenHyralt


Seriously. Most of the players call us staff corrupt, no matter what the reason. 90% of the time it isn't corrupt in the least bit. But the word corrupt, in itself, has been corrupted to mean something totally different and has almost lost all meaning at the same time. Because such a thing has happened whenever someone wants to help, people think that they just want power. This prevents such people from helping. It's not about power always, and it's not always about money. People just assume though that everything is.
Hmmm we should find some way to let you help and
being staff without getting problems with people
always complaining and calling you corrupt
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Old 01-04-2002, 12:15 AM
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Re: Re: What has Graal become?

Quote:
Originally posted by Stefan
I don't think people were better before p2p,
they just care now more about what they own in the
game. I know there are some things that need to be
made better, that's why we work on it
Don't know why you say I have a bad gfx taste
*have added your new trees to the tileset*

Layering: Is very slow on normal gfx cards
Supporting more tiles: there are already many
tiles available, adding even more standard tiles
would even take more resources; when doing a house
or overworld you normally don't need ALL tiles
so addtiledef should be all you need, it works well
with the Graal2002 houses where we currently only
use 10% of the tiles space
Playerlist: You wanted to send me a list with things
I should add :/

If you think things are limited then please work
together with us to improve it. Don't know if its good to
say that the players are bad, we make the game for the
players to play it :/
2002 is fine for me, and I have used this computer since I have started Graal (3 years ago). I hope you don't add layering, because I don't know how much more my computer can take. For the F7 list, I think it would be cool if you could add like different things. Like have a section called "Buddies", and then you can make things like "Guild", "Cool People", "People I suck up to", etc. And when you righ click on someone, it brings up the option to add them to "Cool People" or something.
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Old 01-04-2002, 12:15 AM
Hero_McDohl Hero_McDohl is offline
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Dont you need to register to post on these forums? Hell, if they want to give you money to register 1 account to spam and then have their forum privelages removed I say let them, more cash to your pockets.
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Old 01-04-2002, 12:15 AM
PlasmaDestroyer PlasmaDestroyer is offline
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One way to test them is, if they ask about thier power. Get rid of em. If they actually care about their power (unless for job purposes) they probably don't need that power in the first place.
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Old 01-04-2002, 12:16 AM
AlkarenHyralt AlkarenHyralt is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Stefan


Hmmm we should find some way to let you help and
being staff without getting problems with people
always complaining and calling you corrupt

!!

I really wasn't speaking of myself with the corrupt thing. I'm not often called corrupt. PEople just see my wanting to help the forums as a quest for more power. When power is not something I really want. Not power in the sense that most people think at least.
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Old 01-04-2002, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by AlkarenHyralt


Actually quite a few do. Not always vBulletin; usually free message board software.
I see that companies like MS don't host official forums,
because forums only mean getting problems, because
people like to complain when something happens
they don't like, so it needs a lot of moderation. If you
see the forums here, normally half the messages
should be deleted, because they are spam, or not about
the game, or complains about the staff, which should be
sent with PMs not posted on the forum
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Old 01-04-2002, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Stefan


Hmmm we should find some way to let you help and
being staff without getting problems with people
always complaining and calling you corrupt
It's horrible on Classic, but it will be impossible to get rid of it. I will be called corrupt for not giving someone a lizard sword, so they go hack it and I jail them, and then I have their little trainer using guild calling me corrupt ;o
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Old 01-04-2002, 12:17 AM
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The reason SOME of the players are bad is because of the gameplay.. they are tired of working and since all there is to do is buy hats and make money, it makes people greedy.. a game can change your attitude while playing it.

Stefan, I would LOVE to help work on Graal itself.. not a server, but Graal itself. I really can't understand how adding more tiles or layering could produce that much of a problem.. especially since the outcome of having more tiles and overlapping would make Graal so much better. It's time you started raising the requirements in order to play Graal.. new computers are cheap enough even for middle class families to afford nice stuff. If people are still using processors under 200mhz and normal graphics cards, they really don't need to be into online gaming.

I told you about 4 times what the playerlist needs, I don't see how you could have missed it.

What about letting in outside help for programming and development? Would you allow that, or is cyberjouer going to be a one man programming company forever?

I'm very glad you expressed your views on my opinion, instead of deleting them once again.. I hope the things I have said aren't offensive to you, they are just meant to help make Graal as a whole, better. I yell at birdbird a lot about his levels and things, and the other day he thanked me for actually giving a real opinion about his work instead of just saying "oh thats nice"
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Old 01-04-2002, 12:20 AM
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We need to hold our people to much higher standards. If it sucks, fire em and get rid of their levels.
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Old 01-04-2002, 12:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by konidias
What about letting in outside help for programming and development? Would you allow that, or is cyberjouer going to be a one man programming company forever?
It's not one man, the other people from the company
just don't interact with the players all the time

Quote:
I'm very glad you expressed your views on my opinion, instead of deleting them once again.. I hope the things I have said aren't offensive to you, they are just meant to help make Graal as a whole, better. I yell at birdbird a lot about his levels and things, and the other day he thanked me for actually giving a real opinion about his work instead of just saying "oh thats nice"
Yes saying that the multi-level editing is too hard
(some weeks ago)
made me adding the new multi-level editing, although
it's not perfect yet, need to find some better way of scrolling
and there are some problems when going to other
levels with the character
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Old 01-04-2002, 12:22 AM
AlkarenHyralt AlkarenHyralt is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Stefan


I see that companies like MS don't host official forums,
because forums only mean getting problems, because
people like to complain when something happens
they don't like, so it needs a lot of moderation. If you
see the forums here, normally half the messages
should be deleted, because they are spam, or not about
the game, or complains about the staff, which should be
sent with PMs not posted on the forum

No message board is spam free, or flame free. That's basicly a law, so to speak. Not even I could stop spam from being posted, or stop people from complaining/flaming others. Forums don't always mean trouble though. Sometimes it's a good way for people to get reconized for their abilitys. Not having a message board of some kind is a bad thing. Especially for online games, because message boards (if run correctly and well) will help to draw people there who sometimes just post on the message board because they think it is fun, to actually playing the game. That's almost basically how it was for me. I upgraded my account really for the main reason on posting on the forums. Not so much for playing Graal. But no look, I'm an admin. These can of things happen all the time. Moderation is needed, true. But most people who are given modship are well suited to handle the task of modship. Usually people with adminship have very sound reasoning and convidence in the people they choose to give modship to.
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  #30  
Old 01-04-2002, 12:25 AM
PlasmaDestroyer PlasmaDestroyer is offline
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Yes, you can't make the game perfect. Just hold it to a higher standard.
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  #31  
Old 01-04-2002, 12:25 AM
konidias konidias is offline
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Okay Stefan, so if I were to compose a list of things that may help improve Graal, you would take them all into consideration right?

We seriously need organization on 2k1.. It's sad to see no one there to admin the server and I still have no clarification as to what I do really.. Like I told you before stefan.. you need to make rules for admins and staff because it's obvious that they are needed. I just wish you would discuss things more and come on more then you do because it seems that nothing gets across to you when I catch you online for 3 minutes and you're in the middle of something, then you say "have to go, bye" and I have so many things I need to talk to you about.
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  #32  
Old 01-04-2002, 12:27 AM
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Seriously....

Let's get a list of things to make Graal better. Then we can work on them one by one. Together.
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Old 01-04-2002, 12:29 AM
konidias konidias is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by AlkarenHyralt



No message board is spam free, or flame free. That's basicly a law, so to speak. Not even I could stop spam from being posted, or stop people from complaining/flaming others. Forums don't always mean trouble though. Sometimes it's a good way for people to get reconized for their abilitys. Not having a message board of some kind is a bad thing. Especially for online games, because message boards (if run correctly and well) will help to draw people there who sometimes just post on the message board because they think it is fun, to actually playing the game. That's almost basically how it was for me. I upgraded my account really for the main reason on posting on the forums. Not so much for playing Graal. But no look, I'm an admin. These can of things happen all the time. Moderation is needed, true. But most people who are given modship are well suited to handle the task of modship. Usually people with adminship have very sound reasoning and convidence in the people they choose to give modship to.
There could be another moderator here. (in general discussion) Unixmad doesn't have to be a moderator since he is an admin he can moderate it anyway.

Of course the forums will have flaming and arguements but it's just gotten too bad now and doesn't seem to be getting taken care of. I mean look theres like 50 2k2 threads and more then half of them are completely negative. Then there is the hate threads for people and things that seem to be mulitplying every day.
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  #34  
Old 01-04-2002, 12:29 AM
shavomombetto shavomombetto is offline
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I don't like Kondia's because he scammed me at a hat deal at an auction and didn't give me my hat ><


BUT


I believe he's right about everything, except level generator, because he just basically described paint, except not having to save as bmp file.
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Old 01-04-2002, 12:30 AM
PlasmaDestroyer PlasmaDestroyer is offline
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The main reason they are doing it, is because they know they can do it without being jailed. We need to make rules and make people follow them. NOW.
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Old 01-04-2002, 12:32 AM
grim_squeaker_x grim_squeaker_x is offline
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  1. Rules:
  2. Obey the Squeaker.
  3. Give everything you have to the Squeaker.
  4. Say "Grim Squeaker is cool" every 5 seconds.
  5. If you're RPing you must RP a guy/girl who worships me.
Bwahahaha.
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Old 01-04-2002, 12:32 AM
ArchOwl ArchOwl is offline
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I would love to help 2k1; but NOTHING I ever make gets uploaded nomatter HOW good it is. Ive seen some really REALLY bad levels get uploaded. Yet the remake of worldu-17 and worldv-17 didnt get uploaded.
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Old 01-04-2002, 12:32 AM
konidias konidias is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by shavomombetto
I don't like Kondia's because he scammed me at a hat deal at an auction and didn't give me my hat ><


BUT


I believe he's right about everything, except level generator, because he just basically described paint, except not having to save as bmp file.
Maybe you misread.. I meant make an editor that when you move the mouse over the screen it draws the objects on it.. like you select tree and when you click on the map it sets down a group of trees, then you can move the mouse and it would generate the trees dynamically.. put down water, and you could move the mouse and generate water dynamically.. to see how it will look from a zoomed out view.. with paint, it's just a bunch of colorful blobs.
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  #39  
Old 01-04-2002, 12:33 AM
AlkarenHyralt AlkarenHyralt is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by konidias


There could be another moderator here. (in general discussion) Unixmad doesn't have to be a moderator since he is an admin he can moderate it anyway.

Of course the forums will have flaming and arguements but it's just gotten too bad now and doesn't seem to be getting taken care of. I mean look theres like 50 2k2 threads and more then half of them are completely negative. Then there is the hate threads for people and things that seem to be mulitplying every day.

As I said in one of my above posts, I have volunteered many times to help with the forums and keep them well maintained, but I am ignored. Mods can only do so much. Plus there are no supermods. Unbfortuantly, to help in the way I want it requires power on the forums. That is something that I doubt I will ever get. I wish there was a way to do so without "power" but, there is not.
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Old 01-04-2002, 12:33 AM
freddyfox freddyfox is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by konidias

Of course the forums will have flaming and arguements but it's just gotten too bad now and doesn't seem to be getting taken care of. I mean look theres like 50 2k2 threads and more then half of them are completely negative. Then there is the hate threads for people and things that seem to be mulitplying every day.
I try my best. That's all I can do. Yes, we REALLY do need a good forum admin, it would help.
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