Weapons

[paintballdude956]

Originally Posted by ilovegirlzz

Weapons stats should reflect the price we pay for them.

No way pbp should be better than aa12 when aa12 is the more expensive weapon but aa12 shouldnt be better than photon shotty because of the price but seeing how photon shotty is only 100k more than aa12 it shouldnt just kill aa12 in contest..then you got olympia/rr12 which was just thrown in the mix and completely messed up everything

i demand balance/logic in this area.

melee weapons with the 1.27 speed buff or whatever is utterly rediculous given the high frequency of each swing, the user doesnt deserve a speed boost especially .14 more than everyone else.

idk why we have to go through this every time we get a new gun admin..learn how to adjust accordingly.

I will never use street prices of guns as a reliable indicator of a weapon's balance. Can it be used as a very loose metric? Sure. But as I've seen dozens of times (Mp7, para-tactical, ARG, Ares rifle), a gun is worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it. It's supply/demand, quite simply. Considering the stats as the sole indicator of price completely neglects supply of the gun and parts of demand (aesthetic, nostalgia, etc.)

Speed boost on melees is there to make them competitive. Is it too high? Perhaps. I recently learned of some bugs with the hotkey system and melees that I will need to fix, but that's another issue.

Originally Posted by shrimps

Ish, this guy just threw the gauntlet down upon you.

I'm used to it.

Originally Posted by ooger

Guns are stupid now. The stats support laming rather than skill and nobody plays like its 2009 and running is taboo anymore.

It's funny because I remember hearing the exact same thing in 2009, except then the guys were saying "wow this just isn't like 2004." Not trying to discount what you're saying, but I think the state of PKing on Era has less to do with gun stats and more to do with game culture

Originally Posted by Logababy

Honestly guns change so much more than they should, a player should be able to buy a weapon without any worries of it being nerfed or changed from their liking. Someone needs to just fix guns and leave it at that, so all you would really have to worry about is new releases.

I actually agree, Loga. Honestly, if a gun is like 10% OP/UP, I'm not going to touch it just to maintain stability. However, when folks buy a gun that is quite obviously overpowered, they shouldn't be surprised if it eventually gets a nerf.

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P

AA12 was nerfed too much because shotguns are hard to balance as long as they're using the normal projectile system. I've made a lot of posts about shotguns in general and I believe that they need to change fairly drastically to be useful without being overpowered.

IMO any melee weapon that doesn't use the standard melee system is stupid. And again they're extremely hard to balance. If I ever had my way I would just somehow integrate them into the S melee system just so that there isn't the expectation that they should be able to beat a gun just because they're filling the "gun slot".
I feel like melee weapons as a whole could use a revamp, and it would be cool to see melee weapons added to a player's waist/back on every gun's ganis, so I could run around with my SG552 and have my fireman's axe on my back, but that would be a HUGE task to start now.

Re: shotguns, see my previous post http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...78#post1732678

In brief, shotguns had to be nerfed super hard because of how the new gang bases are designed. Regarding your suggestion to me in private and in other threads, it has not been nearly as easy as we thought it would be...

It was my idea to bring melees into the fold as viable alternatives to guns. I saw the popularity of melees on iEra and thought this would be a great way to add variety and perhaps to attract some new players. So, yes, these are intended to be viable alternatives to guns at the same price-point. That means a samurai sword is supposed to be worth 12 MVP coins.
I honestly think Era players are just not used to dying to melees. When you die to a Navy, you're like, meh whatever it's happened to me for years. When you die to a melee, it's a new experience and you feel cheated.
After the recent Odachi nerfs, I don't think there's a melee in the game that is super super unfair. But then again maybe I should get out and PK a bit more.

Originally Posted by ilovegirlzz

I think we have too many guns. You can't really get better than .05 freeze but every new weapon that is added has .05 freeze and 20-22 dmg its really putting a damper on things and making it harder to balance weapons

like the MT tactical was that really necessary? it's basically the ove prebuff.
speaking of ove, i see its up to 19 dmg but the reload is kinda higher but its 900k in stores wtf i most of the other guns are fine

but when we start getting into duplicates its kinda dumb looks like aa12 now has spasz-12's old stats or something like that

when will we get a new gunadmin?

With the recent changes in the economy, the only plausible way I can see to make the game interesting is to add new guns/weapons/items at a constant rate. If we don't keep adding things, very soon people will be able to get nearly every item in the game. This will cause of lot of folks to stop playing; some people just like to merch and collect.
So, I disagree that there are "too many guns." I plan to keep adding more. Will some of the differences between them be minuscule eventually? Sure, that's inevitable with the .05 increment system. But does that 100% matter? No, not really. If I wanted, I could make 10 variations of the Mp5 Navy, just barely changing the spread or the reload/clip balance. Maybe I can add a special little feature and boost it to "god-tier." The possibilities are endless if you divorce yourself from the idea that two guns in the same tier have to be as different as the Ares and the ARG. This is because as I said above, stats are only one of the factors dictating the demand of the gun. Guns in the "Rare weaponry" of the EC shop have limited release. Even if the stats aren't mind-blowing, people will lust after these guns just because of their rarity.
Who knows what inventive ways of releasing guns I can dream up? So far I've already re-invented the EC shop, introduced the point shop, and added "god-tier" to the cash shop. I think this is a far more interesting task than just making stats.
Besides, as any player knows, guns are often based on taste. My absolutely ideal gun may not have been created yet. Maybe that gun is a MS with just .01 less spread. Maybe it's an Ares that has 0 spread. These small changes are actually relevant when you're a top-tier PKer. (cf. the slight but significant difference of handedness that is apparent in the M4A3)

Now, I will never allow either myself or future Gun Admins to go above "god-tier" as defined by ARG and Ares rifle etc. I don't want to have the legendary debacle of a few years back.
In fact, discounting a few mis-steps like the Reindeer Mount, I don't think I've added anything ridiculously OP yet. So, please, trust me that even if I keep adding new guns, I won't make anything stupid OP. I've played this game for 12 years. I'm a pretty well-known PKer. I want OP guns less than you do, believe me.
Regarding a new gun admin, who knows?

Originally Posted by ilovegirlzz

Oh yea I was thinking how about making reindeer mount like magic carpet..or broom..it is a mount after all but it doesnt provide any type of speed buff which doesnt make sense..

Reindeer mount is a gun. Those aren't. Also, have you seen that reindeer's stubby little legs? I doubt he's very fast.

[geneticfrog]

as far as i know mount doesn't have a cooldown meter like carpet and broom.

[ilovegirlzz]

Originally Posted by geneticfrog

as far as i know mount doesn't have a cooldown meter like carpet and broom.

ok well be like good dev squad and elaborate on the ****ing stats..

you kids act like items haven't been changed in the past

[shrimps]

It also shoots projectiles, which others don't ; Carper, broom, sleigh. Whatever else there is.

[ilovegirlzz]

I was talking about the shop prices sir not street.

Going above God-tier ?(sounds like pokemon when they ran outta ideas)

1.27 is too much of a speed buff 1.2 is fine.

Reindeer mount is just a 100k gun that you can sit on..I propose that we get rid of the gun aspect, make it melee instead, and then kill 2 birds with 1 stone. Idk how it fires presents out it's nose (i thought a laser would have more logic but i see you guys were trying to be cute so ehh)

oh yea you guys nerfed the mount (used to be fully auto now semi?) this is why im asking for speed buff or some compensation

[ooger]

It's funny because I remember hearing the exact same thing in 2009, except then the guys were saying "wow this just isn't like 2004." Not trying to discount what you're saying, but I think the state of PKing on Era has less to do with gun stats and more to do with game culture

You're right that it does depend a lot on game culture, but we haven't really given people a chance to 'be good' if you throw a wall of bullets at them. The fire rates of new guns are higher on average (tell me if I'm wrong here?) than they were in pre-0.05 freeze era. What I'm trying to say is, since there are more bullets being spammed, there isn't as much of a chance to dodge those bullets so the best solution is to run out of the line of fire completely to the nearest corner. Now even when I'm not 'laming' and throwing out hundreds of bullets in a wall people still run to the nearest corner because that's what they have to do to beat a vast majority of players (who just spam). The game feels more "spray and pray" now than it ever has, which just exacerbates the problem of nobody having 'pk honor' anymore. I'm not sure this is something that can be fixed with changing all of the stats, but they definitely coincide.

You released Odachi lel that thing was broken on release and is still a bit questionable (IN MY OPINION). I'm just not sure how you can justify making a serverside scripted item 'comparable'. This works pretty well for the fireman axe because it's not supposed to have a large sweeping hitbox. It's not that I'm dying to a sword it's that I can't counterplay it because they only have to hit what's on their screen and I'll take damage. Now I sit at below 100 ms on average and when I fight players with 150~200 ms they rarely take damage from when my bullets visibly hit on the screen. We all know this is a common phenomena in the realm of guns on Era thanks to the wonderful servers EuroCenter provides us. I have to take a bullet on my screen to take damage from a gun, but someone with a melee only has to hit me on their screen. Maybe there is a way to balance this, but right now I see this as an inherent flaw in your idea.

[Godzilla]

Cloyd's the new Gun Admin, not sure why they continue to throw people who already have a position into a new one. This was the issue at hand, that and your lack of PKing which made you sloppy and uneducated about how certain guns will work in certain positions.

Let's hope Cloyd does a nice job, maybe he should consider stepping away from the PR team.

[paintballdude956]

Yep, well, congrats to Cloyd. I'm lucky enough to not have to address weapon concerns any more. I'll make a full announcement in another thread, but to address Godzilla's concern, someone in another position was chosen because they had proven their reliability on the staff team and that they could be trusted with the rather extensive rights that are required of an effective gun admin. If you guys recall, I was a PR when Amsel promoted me.
And yeah, Cloyd is an active PKer and I'll encourage him to keep PKing

[Godzilla]

Originally Posted by paintballdude956

If you guys recall, I was a PR when Amsel promoted me.
And yeah, Cloyd is an active PKer and I'll encourage him to keep PKing

And there are very small instances where this works; throwing people into another position but it is usually unplanned out and unthought, which I don't doubt was done again this time.

Excited to see what I can spend my 24 million dollars on, hopefully something worth buying.

[Supaman771]

Originally Posted by Godzilla

Excited to see what I can spend my 24 million dollars on, hopefully something worth buying.

I'll give you a mystery box for 20m.

[ilovegirlzz]

really though this reindeer mount buff...

[SharkeySprinkles]

Originally Posted by ilovegirlzz

i demand

Have you no manners? At least say please..

[goaqstbuster247]

RIP Samurai Sword.

[shrimps]

My life is ruined.
http://i.gyazo.com/40377e13d5b4c2967fa6088efc4c1596.png

[ilovegirlzz]

a projectile that does 10 dmg is not a viable tradeoff..and it's a reindeer it should at least have some type of hovering ability or something.

i feel like this "mount" was just some rushed weapon because that's all it is.

who wants to pay 100k for a gun that does 10 dmg? novelty means nothing nowadays so dont give me that option