4 Years of being stagnant

[BlackSolider]

Good because this was going in circles.

I see your point dawg. I was nothing but the best for classic. But you can't expect a perfect HD since there is no such thing.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

Good because this was going in circles.

I see your point dawg. I was nothing but the best for classic. But you can't expect a perfect HD since there is no such thing.

We can't(or shouldn't) expect perfection, but we can expect something better. Apparently this is even worse off than the serverside, so there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting something better. We shouldn't have to apply 'well he worked hard so I guess I can deal with it' logic. That is not how development works. I, as a developer, wouldn't want people to patronize me.

[xnervNATx]

mix them together

[Crono]

Originally Posted by xnervNATx

mix them together

...what?

[BlackSolider]

As a dev (or a GC) I would simply want people to actually appreciate the effort I put in, rather than never be satisfied.

Honestly choosing between serverside and clientside is like picking your poison:
with serverside, you get reached hit occasionally.
with clientside, your hits don't always count.

The change to clientside pretty much solved the reach problem (I believe this was the main reason people wanted it changed), but introduced a new problem that people hadn't considered/known about.

So thor solved one problem, only to introduce another. People complain about the new problem but forget about the old being gone. I do believe that was the reason it was changed in the first place.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

As a dev (or a GC) I would simply want people to actually appreciate the effort I put in, rather than never be satisfied.

Motivation is indeed a good thing when you're a dev, but praise and no criticism is only going to stifle any developer. You need to know your flaws and you need to know when you make flaws, or else you will never learn. I, personally, prefer learning and advancing myself rather than to be showered is praise just to be praised.

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

with serverside, you get reached hit occasionally.
with clientside, your hits don't always count.

That's not how it works, and hence the problem. It can be better.

[BlackSolider]

But what HD is better?

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

But what HD is better?

Whichever satisfies the majority of the current playerbase, while having openings for potential new players.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

But what HD is better?

Sometimes it's not a matter of 'what HD is better' because it isn't as simple as serverside vs clientside. It can be as different as the scripter wants. Sometimes the HD can be good, but the values(detection, range of sword for instance) are poor. Sometimes the values are right, but the HD is poorly scripted. Sometimes it's both... it can be so many matter of things that you just can't really label a HD into black and white. You just have to play and feel which one is better. Ideally, it seems people want a HD that closely mimics the default(UN uses, for instance).

[WhiteDragon]

Since it looks as some people are unclear as to what the technical limitations of the HD are I'll explain briefly.

There are essentially three paradigms one can take when designing an HD:
Say we have player1, player2, and the server.
1. When player1 slashes, player1 looks at his screen and sees it hits player2, so player2 is hit. (always fair to the hitter)
2. When player1 slashes, player2 looks at his screen and sees he was hit by player1, so player2 is hit. (always fair to the person getting hit)
3. The server calculates if player1 hit player2 based on their serverside positions. (can look wrong to both players sometimes)

Previously, with the serverside HD we had number 3, and now with the clientside HD we have a mix of 1 and 2.
The fact that we're mixing them is the reason why some hits aren't counted. They aren't counted if the difference between the screen of the person hitting and the person getting hit is too large (to prevent reach hits and exploitation by laggers).



The difference between our clientside HD and the default HD is just the way information is transfered between the two clients and how the players are detected. What Kat is doing now is making a new clientside HD which acts more like the default.

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by WhiteDragon

What Kat is doing now is making a new clientside HD which acts more like the default.

exactly like the default*

[maximus_asinus]

Originally Posted by -Ramirez-

exactly like the default*

Thor told me it was impossible to redo the default movement unless Classic had access to timevar3 which could be used to do checks servers AND clientside (or something along these lines).

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

Unfortunately I read that the exact default HD won't work on classic b/c it wouldn't mesh with all the scripts made in the last 4 years or so.

This is correct to a degree, but I imagine it would actually be possible to come pretty close to getting it to work. It'd take some pretty awkward scripting. In fact, without actually trying it, I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of it working completely with the appropriate code.

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

Thor told me it was impossible to redo the default movement unless Classic had access to timevar3 which could be used to do checks servers AND clientside (or something along these lines).

This isn't true at all. I have no idea what he could've been thinking when you were told this. Time synchronization of any kind isn't even used in any way.


Keep in mind that default and a scripted replica of the default are two different things. That doesn't mean they have to be any different, in terms of use, to the players.

[BlackSolider]

Good stuff to know WD, thanks.

[BlackSolider]

Unfortunately I read that the exact default HD won't work on classic b/c it wouldn't mesh with all the scripts made in the last 4 years or so.

Could be wrong but I'll check on this tomorrow.