Gabriel's Economic Plan Part A - Page 2

excaliber7388 · #1 08-04-2008, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono

cali, you don't even play Era. The problem is that a lot of honest players such as myself stay poor while the scamming glitch abusers get rich fast. If you start taxing people, the rich may become slightly less rich but the poor will become poorer.

fix'd

Anyway, that's why you have tax levels. Noobs wouldn't even notice them.

Quote:

The rich don't need buffs, they most likely already have some strong weapon to begin with. I like the idea of Graalroids, could have a positive effect in gym training too but side effect would be what you just said.

Sounds like someone isn't too good

The buffs wouldn't be expensive, so everyone could afford it.
btw, I've been playing Era since I heard about this issues. I wanted to see it for myself.
I'm not rich, don't have many kills, etc. I know there's a problem. I've seen guns going for over 50k. It shouldn't be that far out of the reach of people who do normal jobs. making those guns use different, and very expensive ammo, would mean that the rich people would be spending more. Make the ammo pretty much infinite in the store's stock, so no one can buy it all and charge high prices (bring back that building guns/ammo thing, so the stores are never out of stock).

Crono · #2 08-04-2008, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Anyway, that's why you have tax levels. Noobs wouldn't even notice them.

You can't just target a group of players like that though. You CAN but it'll piss people off and the last thing you want is people quiting.

How would the buffs help level things out?

excaliber7388 · #3 08-04-2008, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono

You can't just target a group of players like that though. You CAN but it'll piss people off and the last thing you want is people quiting.

You tax people who have more than a certain amount in the bank. People will start carrying it on them, so you increase the drop. People will either lose money to the system (money deleted), or spread it around to others.

Quote:

How would the buffs help level things out?

Noobs will be able to pay for it as well, and richer people will need to keep paying for it as well. Gets the money flowing out of their pockets.

Crono · #4 08-05-2008, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

You tax people who have more than a certain amount in the bank. People will start carrying it on them, so you increase the drop. People will either lose money to the system (money deleted), or spread it around to others.

Or be pissed off and quit. Era is a very capitalistic server, not some HAY WE GUNNA TAX ALL UR MONEY LOL SOCIALISM RULES kind of thing.

Sinkler · #5 08-05-2008, 12:23 AM

How about we just give out guns depending on how many hours someone has?

Demisis_P2P · #6 08-05-2008, 03:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinkler

How about we just give out guns depending on how many hours someone has?

I just hit 5000 hours the other day after ~7 years of playing Era.
My (fat) little brother has been playing for about a year and already has 2000 hours.

xAzerothx · #7 08-05-2008, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinkler

How about we just give out guns depending on how many hours someone has?

Rethink that.

excaliber7388 · #8 08-05-2008, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono

Or be pissed off and quit. Era is a very capitalistic server, not some HAY WE GUNNA TAX ALL UR MONEY LOL SOCIALISM RULES kind of thing.

So, how old are you again? You live in Sweden, your taxes are through the roof! Governments make taxes all the time. Not only does it go for public goods, but it also helps control the economy. In this case, it would help control the economy, which would be a public service.

Crono · #9 08-05-2008, 04:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

So, how old are you again? You live in Sweden, your taxes are through the roof! Governments make taxes all the time. Not only does it go for public goods, but it also helps control the economy. In this case, it would help control the economy, which would be a public service.

Swing and a miss.

excaliber7388 · #10 08-05-2008, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono

Swing and a miss.

So you'd be against taxation in Era to improve the economy?

LoneAngelIbesu · #11 08-05-2008, 12:26 AM

Because that's elitism.

xAzerothx · #12 08-05-2008, 05:07 AM

There should be taxes for stores but not for every single player.

excaliber7388 · #13 08-05-2008, 05:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xAzerothx

There should be taxes for stores but not for every single player.

individuals need to be taxed, they're the main reason the economy sucks.
Just the people who have too much money, and an amount that they would only notice over time.

DustyPorViva · #14 08-05-2008, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

individuals need to be taxed, they're the main reason the economy sucks.
Just the people who have too much money, and an amount that they would only notice over time.

It depends on how they get so much money.

xAzerothx · #15 08-05-2008, 05:51 AM

Well I don't know how people make money on Era now...

I've heard that the shops make people really rich.

Demisis_P2P · #16 08-05-2008, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xAzerothx

Well I don't know how people make money on Era now...

I've heard that the shops make people really rich.

Businesses were one of the causes this time around.
But anybody who chooses to mine 24/7 for an extended period of time can make a lot of money fairly quickly as well.

I'm not even particularly phazed that there are rich players, because there will always be players who do choose to mine a lot, or pool their resources with other players.

The problem is that after a while EVERYBODY seems too have too much wealth, and then new players have a hard time getting started because prices are so inflated.

DustyPorViva · #17 08-05-2008, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P

Businesses were one of the causes this time around.
But anybody who chooses to mine 24/7 for an extended period of time can make a lot of money fairly quickly as well.

I'm not even particularly phazed that there are rich players, because there will always be players who do choose to mine a lot, or pool their resources with other players.

The problem is that after a while EVERYBODY seems too have too much wealth, and then new players have a hard time getting started because prices are so inflated.

Last I remember, mining was done with a drill. Make the players pay for fuel for it... so newbies can get started, perhaps allow newbies to get a starter kit of fuel for free, and a coupon or two(non-tradeable) for the next couple of fuel keys.

Demisis_P2P · #18 08-05-2008, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Last I remember, mining was done with a drill. Make the players pay for fuel for it... so newbies can get started, perhaps allow newbies to get a starter kit of fuel for free, and a coupon or two(non-tradeable) for the next couple of fuel keys.

It runs on batteries, which is the same basic principle.

Coupons for things isn't a bad idea, to try and make the server more newb-friendly.

excaliber7388 · #19 08-05-2008, 07:49 AM

Tell me about it x_X

DustyPorViva · #20 08-05-2008, 11:18 AM

What's the average rate of outcome(price of batteries) to income(money received from minerals)?

Perhaps that should be looked at. If the income is substantially higher than the outcome, then batteries are but an annoyance instead of serving an actual purpose.

excaliber7388 · #21 08-05-2008, 07:08 PM

Mining is not the issue. I've been mining the past week or so, but all I have to show for it is an ak47 (which I'm finding impossible to sell), uzis, and a handgun. I'm broke too.

DustyPorViva · #22 08-05-2008, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Mining is not the issue. I've been mining the past week or so, but all I have to show for it is an ak47 (which I'm finding impossible to sell), uzis, and a handgun. I'm broke too.

If people mine constantly it can be an issue.
If you raised the prices of batteries or such, it wouldn't really effect the average miner since you wouldn't use that many... it would only effect those who mine constantly for huge amounts of time.

excaliber7388 · #23 08-05-2008, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

If people mine constantly it can be an issue.
If you raised the prices of batteries or such, it wouldn't really effect the average miner since you wouldn't use that many... it would only effect those who mine constantly for huge amounts of time.

If they're willing to waste that much time mining, then all that will do is make them take longer to get cash, not slow them down enough.
Era needs to tax.

Oh, and I finally withdrew more than $100 from my account. You take the $5 out of the amount you're withdrawing? Have you never used an ATM? You take it out of the account =\

DustyPorViva · #24 08-05-2008, 08:02 PM

I have no idea what you're trying to say about ATM's. ATM's don't tax. They just give you a fee(using an ATM at the bank you have an account with doesn't cost you a thing).

Perhaps instead of taxing(which I think is a really bad idea), they can take a % of the money withdrawn from a bank. So those who keep huge amounts in the bank will lose some when they remove it, and possibly discourage them from depositing it.

Crow · #25 08-05-2008, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

I have no idea what you're trying to say about ATM's. ATM's don't tax. They just give you a fee(using an ATM at the bank you have an account with doesn't cost you a thing).

Perhaps instead of taxing(which I think is a really bad idea), they can take a % of the money withdrawn from a bank. So those who keep huge amounts in the bank will lose some when they remove it, and possibly discourage them from depositing it.

I think somebody said it in this thread earlier, this is already done. You loose $5 if you withdraw more than $100. Guess that should be changed a bit, heh.

DustyPorViva · #26 08-05-2008, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crow

I think somebody said it in this thread earlier, this is already done. You loose $5 if you withdraw more than $100. Guess that should be changed a bit, heh.

A set rate isn't gonna effect those rich people. It needs to be a percentage. 5[percent]?

excaliber7388 · #27 08-05-2008, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

I have no idea what you're trying to say about ATM's. ATM's don't tax. They just give you a fee(using an ATM at the bank you have an account with doesn't cost you a thing).

Perhaps instead of taxing(which I think is a really bad idea), they can take a % of the money withdrawn from a bank. So those who keep huge amounts in the bank will lose some when they remove it, and possibly discourage them from depositing it.

When did I say the ATM taxed you??I just said that the fee is taken out of the account, not the cash you're withdrawing.

Taxing is a great idea. It's the best way to keep them in check. People would work around atm withdraws by doing small amounts at a time. Taxing the amount in the bank isn't far off. Consider it an income tax, not a tax from the bank.

DustyPorViva · #28 08-05-2008, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

People would work around atm withdraws by doing small amounts at a time. Taxing the amount in the bank isn't far off. Consider it an income tax, not a tax from the bank.

Limit the amount of withdrawals that can be made in a minute... pretty simple.

excaliber7388 · #29 08-05-2008, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Limit the amount of withdrawals that can be made in a minute... pretty simple.

If people have the time to mine all day, they'll have the time for that

You have to do it while it's stored, that's the best method. There can still be a fee, but it should be taken out of the account, not the amount you're withdrawing. And yeah, a percentage isn't a bad idea.

DustyPorViva · #30 08-05-2008, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

If people have the time to mine all day, they'll have the time for that

You have to do it while it's stored, that's the best method. There can still be a fee, but it should be taken out of the account, not the amount you're withdrawing. And yeah, a percentage isn't a bad idea.

Whether or not they do it in small amounts(as long as they don't withdraw small amounts that avoid the fee from rounding), it's still gonna end up being 5[percent].

excaliber7388 · #31 08-05-2008, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Whether or not they do it in small amounts(as long as they don't withdraw small amounts that avoid the fee from rounding), it's still gonna end up being 5[percent].

So you're going to take 5 percent from a person trying to withdraw $10?

Why is it so bad to tax a players holdings in the bank? It's the best way to control inflation.

xAzerothx · #32 08-05-2008, 09:24 PM

I'm pretty poor on Era. If you tax me I'll never make any money.

excaliber7388 · #33 08-05-2008, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xAzerothx

I'm pretty poor on Era. If you tax me I'll never make any money.

Why does no one get the idea of tax levels?
GAH
If you have less than a certain amount, you wouldn't be taxed. The more money you have, the larger percentage they'll take from you, to keep people from getting too rich.

Kappa00p2p · #34 08-05-2008, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Why does no one get the idea of tax levels?
GAH
If you have less than a certain amount, you wouldn't be taxed. The more money you have, the larger percentage they'll take from you, to keep people from getting too rich.

It is a bad idea. Players should not be punished for doing work in a game.

excaliber7388 · #35 08-05-2008, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kappa00p2p

It is a bad idea. Players should not be punished for doing work in a game.

It's not punishment, it's controlling the economy.
Stop repeating what's been said, and read back a bit before commenting people. The real world has taxes, it's not a punishment, it's necessary.

Crono · #36 08-05-2008, 10:38 PM

People won't like their money being thrown away. Taxes work in real life because they are put towards something. Using "tax" as a way to burn people's money is not good. Specially on a GAME, you know.

The very fact that people are able to collect such high amounts of money shows a flaw in the server itself (apart from glitch abuse); it lacks content. Here's some very basic ones I made up on the spot:

What happened to playerhouses? Upload more, add a monthly fee to all homes. Allow players to do more with their homes such as growing gardens, buying furniture, and possibly even adding pet dogs that you can take for walks (simply for the purpose of showing off your cute/ugly animal). During winter you can have your dogs pull sleds, just for fun. Furniture could be used to store your items without having to worry about other people stealing your stuff (have an option on furniture to lock it to your account or let anyone access it, should be easily toggled).

Cars? Make more, and have them for different price ranges. Offer different levels of performances for different cars. The base ones you have now are what, 10k? Make new luxery ones that support carrying 4 players and make them over 30k. Have supercars (one of the staff has his own Ferrari parked in the parking lot building, way to go you selfish bum) worth over 100k.

Skateboards are a very fun feature on Era. Expand on this, add parts to skateboards for stat bonuses (such as speed and airtime) that are a bit pricey for what they offer. Make normal objects interactable with the skateboard NPC. (grinding any table, ramps in various places, etc).

xAzerothx · #37 08-05-2008, 11:11 PM

What if players could give money to Era's "government.". The players could give money away to have something made like a skate park.

Crono · #38 08-05-2008, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

The real world has taxes, it's not a punishment, it's necessary.

The real world also has a government.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xAzerothx

What if players could give money to Era's "government.". The players could give money away to have something made like a skate park.

What? Why should all the players give up their earned money to make staff do what they're supposed to be doing to begin with?

P.S, there already is a skate park.

DustyPorViva · #39 08-06-2008, 02:16 AM

There are easier ways to control the economy that doesn't piss off players. Crono has stated this, which I also stated before: give them stuff to buy.

Monthly rent on apartments, houses and such, perhaps even a system that has the player pay for the content in their house(a big screen TV would cost more than a small one, for example). If people have the money for something, they will buy it, the problem is there's nothing for these rich people to buy except inflated guns... guns get inflated because they're sparse and people have all that money to spend on it. If they were too busy paying house payments and perhaps insurance on a car, they wouldn't have the money to pay for an expensive ass gun, thus the guns would never sell at insanely high prices.

excaliber7388 · #40 08-06-2008, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

There are easier ways to control the economy that doesn't piss off players. Crono has stated this, which I also stated before: give them stuff to buy.

Monthly rent on apartments, houses and such, perhaps even a system that has the player pay for the content in their house(a big screen TV would cost more than a small one, for example). If people have the money for something, they will buy it, the problem is there's nothing for these rich people to buy except inflated guns... guns get inflated because they're sparse and people have all that money to spend on it. If they were too busy paying house payments and perhaps insurance on a car, they wouldn't have the money to pay for an expensive ass gun, thus the guns would never sell at insanely high prices.

If people have stuff to buy, they'll be able to then sell it. For example, a locker costs $50 to buy. But then, supply goes down, demand goes up, and they can turn around and sell it for 5k. The same would happen for new toys, apartments, guns, etc.
There's tons to buy on era, the problem is that the supply drops too much, and people can make a huge profit reselling items. You need some other form to control money. People might not even notice their bank account losing a few bucks every day. What's $10 per day to someone with over 100k in their account, and ads 1k per week?