Too high prices

[Lucas3]

When I looked in an old Graal Kingdoms Guide(by Googi) I found this:

To actually enchant a piece of armour, you need to have an Enchant Armour scroll. These scrolls are sold in shops for around 1000 platinum coins but are fairly rare. Players generally sell them for 5 diamonds each.

I don't play Graal for too long yet so I didn't even see these times , but now EAs are 100 diamonds each so 20 times as much as they were when his guide was written. Why did the prices for everything increase so much? Why did the price of diamonds get halfed when they aren't even easier to get now? Why did the spawn rate of so many Items got lowered? And why aren't EAs and EWs craftable on events island any longer? This everything is quite unfair for new players, some time ago (when EAs and everything was cheaper) players could buy 12 EAs for only 60 dias and could upgrade their equipment to +12. And what about the players who just started to play Graal ( )? They have to pay almost the double price which was needed some years ago for 12 EAs to get only 1 EA!
I suggest to do something to make it fairer for new players. Increase the spawn rates of EAs/IWDs/all the other things or make it easier to find diamonds so it's fair again.

I also made a poll for this thread ("agree with this" or "not agree with this")

[joel34]

Yeah, I miss that i could EA my luckies to 12 for for just 60 dias.

[Dan]

It's hard to start as a new player and get some gear. Also lowering the spawn rate of IWDs made it take like two days (if not more) to get hold of an IWD. Even if I offer 200d some people don't even want to sell their IWDs. So I am definately on an agree if we're speaking about improving the spawn rates.

[Clockwork]

I dont think EA's really matter as much as the fact that you can't even get very good gear apart from somehow managing to pay ****loads to an older player who likely got it when it was =once= available. The only equipments I ever see being released on gk are special holiday weapons that only might get released again the next year, and they don't even stand remotely on par with older equipment that no one can get anymore.

[Darkrazor]

Wow.. i remember the days that EAs were that cheap. times have changed i wish graal went back to those days.. these days are controlled by the rich, and the poor wither in despair. 'go mine diamonds'

[Draenin]

You have only your fellow man to blame.

[Dan]

Originally Posted by Draenin

You have only your fellow man to blame.

You voted no because it might lower the USD prices you can get for your items?

[gravator]

In two weeks i went from having only 1 RoC as my best item to two RoC, mith+12 HSoD, a love axe from jeffga for 8 brutals (200 diamonds worth) and multiple good items from the easter event, it took only 5 minutes to see the crystals were in high demand so i jumped on that as a means to get somewhat rich.

I would suggest learning what is needed for alchemy items, and just spend a day or two gathering what you need for that particular item, or take a bit of time to gather diamonds and brutals, and sell those for pure plat and you can try your luck with the many shops around main in hopes of a EA or IWD spawning while you are there.

[MajinDragon]

Originally Posted by Lucas3

I don't play Graal for too long yet so I didn't even see these times , but now EAs are 100 diamonds each so 20 times as much as they were when his guide was written. Why did the prices for everything increase so much? Why did the price of diamonds get halfed when they aren't even easier to get now? Why did the spawn rate of so many Items got lowered? And why aren't EAs and EWs craftable on events island any longer? This everything is quite unfair for new players, some time ago (when EAs and everything was cheaper) players could buy 12 EAs for only 60 dias and could upgrade their equipment to +12. And what about the players who just started to play Graal ( )? They have to pay almost the double price which was needed some years ago for 12 EAs to get only 1 EA!
I suggest to do something to make it fairer for new players. Increase the spawn rates of EAs/IWDs/all the other things or make it easier to find diamonds so it's fair again.

• The prices of EA's & IWD's increased because of the spawn rate

• The Spawn rates were lowered to curb the 'problem' associated with pvp, although in hindsight a full reset of enchanted armors should have also been done.

• Diamonds have two roles that grant them value: A substitute for platinum due to weight; A consumable for weapon prepping. The weight of platinum was lowered substantially & are planned to be weightless. This lessens the need for diamonds for it's main purpose (since now prepping won't be a common thing).

• EA's and EW's were removed from the EC shop a long while back, i'd be in favor of EA's and EW's being put back into the EC shop, but at a higher cost than previously.

• There's no such thing as fairness to noobs on GK, it's tough. Unnecessarily tough. There are many ways for a smart noob to earn platinum, which they can reinvest through dests but it undoubtedly takes a long time to be on par with some players. Item availability is the main culprit i'd have to say. The top looks daunting when a noob see's a belt sell for 12500 diamonds.

I voted disagree because your suggestion isn't anything new or fresh, it's merely a suggestion to take us back to the old system which wasn't working either. The poll is also quite Void since it's a known fact the minority rule in GK.

Originally Posted by gravator

In two weeks i went from having only 1 RoC as my best item to two RoC, mith+12 HSoD, a love axe from jeffga for 8 brutals (200 diamonds worth) and multiple good items from the easter event, it took only 5 minutes to see the crystals were in high demand so i jumped on that as a means to get somewhat rich.

I would suggest learning what is needed for alchemy items, and just spend a day or two gathering what you need for that particular item, or take a bit of time to gather diamonds and brutals, and sell those for pure plat and you can try your luck with the many shops around main in hopes of a EA or IWD spawning while you are there.

This is an example of the sort of player that thrives in GK regardless of it's harsh environments. It's unfortunate a 'gold' server (intended to make money, one can only assume) isn't more accessible.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by Dan

You voted no because it might lower the USD prices you can get for your items?

Read the featured blog article in my sig if you want my perspective on it. I have no clue what makes you think I even care much about GK's economy anymore.

This is the second time GK has undergone major inflation since Alchemy was introduced. The major difference this time is that the trade value of diamonds has been going down while prices on commodities are going up.

[Tigairius]

More discussion about EAs here: http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...hp?t=134258645

[sengir]

I wish there was a maybe option! I agree items such as EA's should be increased (but 100 dias?!?! IVE NEVER seen one sell for that -_- ) and if people are paying that for it then thats the problem! Items are worth what people are willing to pay for it.
The thing I dont understand is how, for example, say I had a FHOM +12. I was selling it for 200 Dias when they were 500plat each. Well now that Dias are 250, the FHOM+12 should be 400 Dias!! This is where people went crazy and kept prices the same for everything even though the dias where cut in half!! Theres no economics here!!! NONE!!
Just make the drop rate of dias lower. The rate of EA's and IWD and stuff higher. And then problem solved. New players could get better armor in order to grind and farm alot in order to get the dias.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by sengir

The thing I dont understand is how, for example, say I had a FHOM +12. I was selling it for 200 Dias when they were 500plat each. Well now that Dias are 250, the FHOM+12 should be 400 Dias!! This is where people went crazy and kept prices the same for everything even though the dias where cut in half!! Theres no economics here!!! NONE!!

Actually, a lot of price changes occured when that happened. The prices of rare items have gone up substantially since.

FHoM is not technically a 'rare' item. It's uncommon because you can't obtain it as easily as diamonds, but you can still make it through alchemy. Likewise, it isn't as rare as limited-production items such as the holiday stuff. The reason why it hasn't gone up in price is because it's no more valuable than it was before.

[kia345]

I love the high prices and hope they become steeper. Getting 30 30 30, or even 29 30 26 or something should be near impossible, you people are just greedy. The further out of reach high-tier gear is, the less emphasis there will be on high stats, the more people that will be content to actually play rather than hang out in the markets.

Chaosorc is a brilliant example of why gear/levels shouldn't be the main goal for you people to reach. He has godly items and amazing levels, and now he doesn't know what's left to do.

We have too many items with +'s and not enough items with actually drastic -'s. We need more gear with massive downsides like Crown of Power. Attaining such high stats like all these 30s should be impossible. People should be happy to have a single 25. I would love for an item reset to go with the EA/IWD change, or at least a reset on all armor enchantments/prepared weapons.


Yeah, I went there.

[Seeya]

Originally Posted by kia345

item reset

OH GOD No!

[Lucas3]

Originally Posted by kia345

I love the high prices and hope they become steeper....

...at least a reset on all armor enchantments/prepared weapons.

Even higher prices?! And armor reset!? This would make Graal Kingdoms impossible to play. Be honest,you wear enchanted armor too, right? Guess what will happen when armors get resetted. Everyone will need EAs but there aren't enough so the prices go: high---> higher--->highest---> Graal Kingdoms.
The price of EAs will go until 500 dias each and so an armor +12 will be like 6000 dias. In PvP it would be fair, yes, but in PvM/PvE?(Player vs Monster/Player vs Enemy, don't know how you call it here) The Small Eastereggs, for example,will break your AC in no time (not talking about crypt monsters), making leveling impossible(especially on higher levels).
I think I have a good idea now. Increase the spawn rate of EAs so they're 5-20 diamonds each. Then do it like with the str,cha,pow,dex... add on weapons. Start with 1 and then increase the price for every new "+".
Maybe like this:
+1 = 1 EA needed
+2 = 2 EA needed
+3 = 3 EA needed
+4 = 4 EA needed
+5 = 5 EA needed
+6 = 7 EA needed
+7 = 9 EA needed
+8 = 12 EA needed
+9 = 15 EA needed
+10 = 18 EA needed
+11 = 21 EA needed
+12 = 25 EA needed

So an armor +5 for PvM/PvE would be 1 EA+ 2 EA+ 3 EA +4 EA+ 5 EA = 15 EAs, by a price of 10 diamonds each 150 diamonds, which is actually not too expensive. This armor will be enough to fight monsters, but not to fight players so armor +12 is needed (All together 122 EAs for 1220 diamonds). With this, you solved the problem that armor+12 is NEEDED for PvP because nobody can buy it so easy. And it's still not too hard to level up by killing Monsters.

(You could also do the same with IWDs)

[joel34]

IWD is fine.

EA is not fine.

[Lucas3]

Why isn't it fine with EA?

[sengir]

Originally Posted by Draenin

FHoM is not technically a 'rare' item. .

I Know that :P I was just saying for example. And the prices of the rare items have gone up. Which is how it should be. But there are still Items such as HSOD+12. 12 alone is 200-250 dias right now or more (prob alot more). BUT the HSOD+12 is still only worth 100-125 dias +12'd. It still doesnt make ANY sense to me

[sengir]

Originally Posted by Lucas3

Even higher prices?! And armor reset!? This would make Graal Kingdoms impossible to play.)

No No No. We wouldnt keep the drop rate of EA's and IWD's the same if we reset everything. Dias would be back to 500 plat each and the EA's and IWD's would be only 15-25 Dias.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by sengir

I Know that :P I was just saying for example. And the prices of the rare items have gone up. Which is how it should be. But there are still Items such as HSOD+12. 12 alone is 200-250 dias right now or more (prob alot more). BUT the HSOD+12 is still only worth 100-125 dias +12'd. It still doesnt make ANY sense to me

Uh. If I were you, I'd take advantage of that if people are selling for those prices.

Alchemy items are worth at least the sum of the values of their components, regardless of what people might be selling them for. Considering how it's much more difficult these days to assemble one and fully enchant it, there's no logical reason why you should sell for prices that low.

[quickshooter]

"(All together 122 EAs for 1220 diamonds)"

you were trying to make it easier/cheaper to EA?

right now EA's are what? 100dias? and you need 12? thats 1200 dias lol

your method is actually MORE expensive, so it kind of defeats the purpose? no? they would easier to farm, but just as costly to utilize.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Lucas3

Even higher prices?! And armor reset!? This would make Graal Kingdoms impossible to play. Be honest,you wear enchanted armor too, right? Guess what will happen when armors get resetted.

Everyone will need EAs

You obviously don't have any idea what the reasoning is. No one needs EAs. And I'd be the first to give up my items for a reset. GK's impossible to play now. If you weren't forced into buying EAs, it'd be much easier

[OasaTor_PK]

I can't wait for an armor reset, maybe then I will actually break out a sword and shield again.

I personally think that EA's should be abolished and have the physical resist stat actually do something in pvp similar to magic resists.

Would simplify things IMMENSELY.

[quickshooter]

Originally Posted by OasaTor_PK

I can't wait for an armor reset, maybe then I will actually break out a sword and shield again.

I personally think that EA's should be abolished and have the physical resist stat actually do something in pvp similar to magic resists.

Would simplify things IMMENSELY.

the physical resist (your ability to RESIST -successful- physical attacks) stat reduces damage taken,AC (armour class) is your ability to dodge/evade/negate physical attack (in general) based on your opponents WC(weapon class) so:

if WC>AC then a melee strike occurs dealing some damage. so: dmg*physical resist = actual dmg inflicted on the enemy based on the dmg variable of the ATTACKER and resist variable of the recipient of the ATTACK

or something similar...assuming theres no elemental dmg on the weapon

so all things have a place and work properly.. IMO its the changes that were made to the original crossfire game mechanics coupled with a bunch of whining kids who just want the game to require little to no actual time investment to get far, that FUBAR'd GK..

[Draenin]

Personally I don't see the point in nerfing the EA spawn rate, considering the fact that the maximum AC achievable is around -80 to -90, and you'll automatically exceed that at 107 physical. All that AC does is determine whether a player hits / misses you. It doesn't determine damage reduction.

[Lucas3]

Originally Posted by quickshooter

"(All together 122 EAs for 1220 diamonds)"

you were trying to make it easier/cheaper to EA?

right now EA's are what? 100dias? and you need 12? thats 1200 dias lol

your method is actually MORE expensive, so it kind of defeats the purpose? no? they would easier to farm, but just as costly to utilize.

Look at the example:

...So an armor +5 for PvM/PvE would be 1 EA+ 2 EA+ 3 EA +4 EA+ 5 EA = 15 EAs, by a price of 10 diamonds each 150 diamonds, which is actually not too expensive. This armor will be enough to fight monsters, but not to fight players...

I think you can see what I meant with that: an armor +5 would be only 150 diamonds, while an armor +12 would be still around 1200 diamonds. If it would be like that, new players could buy EAs to get a bit armor and go monster killing to get a bit money, exp...
And PvP players could still get +8 or 9 armor, but not too easy so not everyone has +12 armor (Which was the sense of the whole thing if I understood that right ) understood it?

[quickshooter]

Originally Posted by Lucas3

Look at the example:


I think you can see what I meant with that: an armor +5 would be only 150 diamonds, while an armor +12 would be still around 1200 diamonds. If it would be like that, new players could buy EAs to get a bit armor and go monster killing to get a bit money, exp...
And PvP players could still get +8 or 9 armor, but not too easy so not everyone has +12 armor (Which was the sense of the whole thing if I understood that right ) understood it?

sure its a nice theory

[MajinDragon]

I like the sound of Lucas' proposal. The cost difference of trying to achieve +12 on 1 piece of armor is immense compared to what little you'd need to spend to gain the recommended 40ac for pve. So that if players wish to stack ac for pvp purposes, they're going to have to fork out alot of cash for that privilege, and that's what it should be. The ability to negate ALL melee damage from most people (level 50 and under phys) shouldn't be so easily obtained - HSoD+12, Comp+12, pmop+12, any helmet+12, snowboots+12, bakers+12 all together = 88ac? if you wanted to go further you could get an ac belt to hit the 90 barrier.

[quickshooter]

its still a moot point without a reset

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by quickshooter

its still a moot point without a reset

Resets don't happen.

[kia345]

GK improving doesn't happen either, so there must be a correlation.

[BigBear3]

A full reset would be so fun.

[Supaman771]

GK will never reset in our lifetime. Its a true fact. Not only can Tig -Not- do it, but Stefan wouldn't let him if he could. Seeing as zone is absolute crap now, GK is the only server making him money on this game. Resetting drives away 90% of those players (most of GK is oldbies) to open it up and be easier for the 5-10 playercount it would have? I know how much -some- (being the poor) want it, it just won't happen.

On to the -problem-.

I see none, all your arguments are based on the value of diamonds, which in in truest form, diamonds are used 99% less than sapphires or rubies even... they're only use is for prepping weapons and they're amazingly easy to get. Tig noticed this, thus he fixed the actual currency of the game so it is more usable, I don't know who decided to bring diamonds into the picture... but they're now as obsolete as their use is. Everyone should be happy that the server is so used to them being a currency that they can easily trade them for more platinum than they're worth, being a much easier form of money than alchemy or the other big platinum industries not n00b friendly.

On to EAs... They're fine aswell, why pay 100 diamonds when you can trade 100 diamonds for 25000 platinum and go spawn yourself up to 5 EAs? (i've personally got 7 from 25k plat once since the change) and a total + on armors of around 15 will give you 99 physical defense, all you need for fighting any monster, anything more than that is a waste since the people who actually PVP will break your AC no matter how high it is.

The biggest problem I see with the server is far away from the currency though, and nothing against Tig, is the big@ss raffles and rare events..

I personally have won Samurai Boots from one of his raffles, so your like "Why's this guy complaining?".. Well I see it as: giving away free, top of the line rare expensive items some people have saved months to years for to players that don't even have to do as much as move is outrageous. Sure its cool to see some rares thrown in on a holiday or something, but seeing 3-4 per raffle, and a raffle just about every week or two (not anymore, never see him on) really is no way to fix the economy. I mean, why go grind for months and save up to trade half your items for something you really want when any day he can decide to just give one away to a player that did nothing but login? This personally ruined the trading experience for me, and trading is just about the only thing worth doing on GK. >Why I never play.

Now don't go quoting me crying about my opinions, if you don't like them that's your fault. Gl @ Pojo's reset idea.

[BigBear3]

Originally Posted by Supaman771

tl;dr

Basic, typical, and pessimistic view that the average GK player shares with one another.

[Craigus]

It's only natural that new players or players that have achieved little want a reset so they can be on equal footing.

If a reset ever did happen it would have to be after everything was fixed, including making it IMPOSSIBLE to get 107 or ridiculously high mental, agility etc, perhaps reducing the level caps to say 30 - 50, fixing gods, have items cap out at +4 or remove EA's period and just increase the AC fixed amount on a few items. Only in these conditions would GK be played at the level it was designed to be played in.

Edit: Since it was mentioned and nobody seems to really know where Diamonds first got their value from: Once upon a time blessing weapons specifically diamond blades to +3 was the most common source of income (Very few people could bless +4 to do flaming swords) and Diamonds were 30 - 50 plat each, when quests+lords were released the lucky amulet had Luck+25 this made it possible to bless to +3 in about 1 min, then there was a total price war on diamonds that capped out at 500, luck amy was reduced to what it is now after 2 days and diamonds NEVER decreased until John and Tig sold a few diamonds for 250 plat one day.

In conclusion there was never any logical reason for diamonds to stay at 500 plat, the only thing that kept them there was player opinion... and all Tig did was INCREASE the plat value of diamonds to 250 to vendors up from 4 and is blamed for reducing their value? think about it.

[MajinDragon]

Originally Posted by quickshooter

its still a moot point without a reset

Originally Posted by BigBear3

A full reset would be so fun.

Originally Posted by Draenin

Resets don't happen.

I conquer with Draenin on this. A reset won't happen on GK anytime soon because there is no infrastructure to support a reset. Zodiac could reset because all you had to do was go into dungeons, level, get item drops, sell some ish, but decent gear from shops, grind, get some rare/good drops and you're fine. GK... you can't do that, what rares and good items we have for show right now come from YEARS of a combined server effort through events, levelling, dest farming etc. I couldn't advise, nor fathom, a reset in GK's current condition, it would only make things worse and simply reset an inevitable capitalist hierarchy.

There are many other ways to improve a server without resetting. The only server that truly needed a reset was Maloria after weapon speeds became 0.05. Way before that even, 0.05 was simply the most disgusting bench mark ever set.

Originally Posted by Supaman771

GK will never reset in our lifetime. Its a true fact. Not only can Tig -Not- do it, but Stefan wouldn't let him if he could. Seeing as zone is absolute crap now, GK is the only server making him money on this game. Resetting drives away 90% of those players (most of GK is oldbies) to open it up and be easier for the 5-10 playercount it would have? I know how much -some- (being the poor) want it, it just won't happen.

On to the -problem-.

I see none, all your arguments are based on the value of diamonds, which in in truest form, diamonds are used 99% less than sapphires or rubies even... they're only use is for prepping weapons and they're amazingly easy to get. Tig noticed this, thus he fixed the actual currency of the game so it is more usable, I don't know who decided to bring diamonds into the picture... but they're now as obsolete as their use is. Everyone should be happy that the server is so used to them being a currency that they can easily trade them for more platinum than they're worth, being a much easier form of money than alchemy or the other big platinum industries not n00b friendly.

On to EAs... They're fine aswell, why pay 100 diamonds when you can trade 100 diamonds for 25000 platinum and go spawn yourself up to 5 EAs? (i've personally got 7 from 25k plat once since the change) and a total + on armors of around 15 will give you 99 physical defense, all you need for fighting any monster, anything more than that is a waste since the people who actually PVP will break your AC no matter how high it is.

The biggest problem I see with the server is far away from the currency though, and nothing against Tig, is the big@ss raffles and rare events..

I personally have won Samurai Boots from one of his raffles, so your like "Why's this guy complaining?".. Well I see it as: giving away free, top of the line rare expensive items some people have saved months to years for to players that don't even have to do as much as move is outrageous. Sure its cool to see some rares thrown in on a holiday or something, but seeing 3-4 per raffle, and a raffle just about every week or two (not anymore, never see him on) really is no way to fix the economy. I mean, why go grind for months and save up to trade half your items for something you really want when any day he can decide to just give one away to a player that did nothing but login? This personally ruined the trading experience for me, and trading is just about the only thing worth doing on GK. >Why I never play.

Now don't go quoting me crying about my opinions, if you don't like them that's your fault. Gl @ Pojo's reset idea.

Yes, a reset is also bad business.

I'm glad someone has read my work. Indeed, diamonds are currently 'alive' due to the facade that they are a true currency. Perhaps with the change of their shop-value it's not so much of an illusion since you can exchange them for very close to their player trade value of 250platinum coins. Their value lies in their two 'job's' to prepare weapons for slotting, and to offer a trustworthy (trade) weight alternative to the burdening platinum coins.

It's definitely the method of distribution that's the problem. The thought is fine. As 'fair' as everyone wants to be, it's actual quite unfair to raffle off such wonderful items. This will ofcourse sound like a cry of greed to some but if ever events would be the means of distributing rares, it should fall upon events of skill, or one that requires some level of familiarity by the locals. A raffle needs only a client and a keyboard to win a ghost pirate amulet (Tg forbid).

If content won't be added due to staffing issues, and problem solving ideas , such as http://forums.graalonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134258283, won't be implemented, and events are really the only way to put items out, then i'd leave it to the events team.

I'd love to comment on EA's, but i'll just say a full armor reset, tweaking of EA spawn rate (not as they were before) and implementation of Lucas' proposal - that EA's act as stat improvements on swords - is the way to go.

Originally Posted by Craigus

Edit: Since it was mentioned and nobody seems to really know where Diamonds first got their value from: Once upon a time blessing weapons specifically diamond blades to +3 was the most common source of income (Very few people could bless +4 to do flaming swords) and Diamonds were 30 - 50 plat each, when quests+lords were released the lucky amulet had Luck+25 this made it possible to bless to +3 in about 1 min, then there was a total price war on diamonds that capped out at 500 for a 2 days, luck amy was reduced to what it is now and diamonds NEVER decreased until John and Tig sold a few diamonds for 250 plat one day.

In conclusion there was never any logical reason for diamonds to stay at 500 plat, the only thing that kept them there was player opinion... and all Tig did was INCREASE the plat value of diamonds to 250 to vendors up from 4 and is blamed for reducing their value? think about it.

Wonderful story, it's given me a bit of insight but diamond values were never logical to begin with. Fear of losing investments (those who bought for 500) probably kept them from falling at first, and security of knowing you'd always get 500 platinum for your diamond was what kept them at that value for so long - why change a good thing? But there were underline reasons why they continued to be used, it was only the inevitability of inflation that has seen diamonds become questioned as a trustworthy currency. And that's all money, or any currency, really is - trust.

[BigBear3]

GK used to be so fun when it first began. Nobody was super powerful or really fast. Everyone had to work together to get anything done. GK has strayed away from this and as a result, we've seen a declining player base. Things have recently been released that require people to work together. People have also been coming back. Perhaps, teamwork is the key.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by BigBear3

Perhaps, teamwork is the key.

And friendship!

[BigBear3]

Originally Posted by kia345

And friendship!

I love you.