Let's talk about the unbalanced magic system on 2k2.

[_0AfTeRsHoCk0_]

Magic is a problem in two forms.

1) The spells, though it's a bit better, still lag.

2) Magic is much too common and overused.

In order to solve the first problem, we'd have to solve the second one. So how do we do this? We have too many people running around with magic, launching spells constantly and simply wiping the floor clean of any baddies in the dungeons. It's not fair. Classes were designed to have disadvantages and advantages for all, and quite frankly, seeing a warrior wear the talisman with a compendium of all the spells know to Graal 2002 is somewhat unfair. He can launch an endless amount of spells from a distance, weakening the enemies, then simply use his natural melee skills to finish off a baddy.

On the other hand, sorcerers alone are fine, but there is a problem here too. Lots of them seem to be able to acquire full complete set of armor, shield, helm, plate mail and all. I don't detest the fact that having a shield and boots and maybe a helm is alright, but I think that body armor for sorcerers is once again pushing the barriers of what they should be able to have, not to mention a melee scroll.

A regular warrior with just a simply melee weapon (the way it should be) is defenseless against a sorceror warrior or barbarian, and a sorceror with no body armor wouldn't dare launch his mass spells on baddies in the middle of the floor unless he had armor on.

Conclusion: There need to be class caps or class limits. A warrior or barbarian shoudn't be able to use magic, and a sorceror shouldn't be able to use weapons or equip themselves with lots of armor. It's much too unbalanced, and you're going to end up having godly characters or most people having warrior mages... leading to a total imbalance.

[Asuka]

Mixed classes is fine. It just goes to show how much time people put into their characters. If a person has talisman and is a warrior its hard for them to level up their magic AND physical abilities. Also mixed classes good why should people ONLY be a warrior? In the Rping world there are many warrior priests (paladins) not to mention Gandalf (using him because people know who he is) is a wiz who uses a sword. Mixed classes am good.

[BlKnight]

Not when everybody is a sorceror warrior.

[aylad]

Originally posted by BlKnight
Not when everybody is a sorceror warrior.

I agree. I hate to say it, because like most people I'd like to be all-powerful, but it's just bad for an RP game.

Class-mixing is good too, though. So to keep the best of both worlds, I propose this system:

#1) NO CAPS. Why on Earth would any long-term player want caps?

#2) In place of caps, have a percentage-based balance system. The balance would be three-way: wisdom, magic, and physique. The more experience you get in any one of these three areas, the less experience you gain per kill in the other two areas. In other words, by the time most warriors can afford to get their hands on a talisman, they earn only a little magic exp per kill.

One side advantage of this is Barbarians could be given something to set them apart from regular warriors: they could earn more magic exp at higher physical levels. Warriors could earn more wisdom exp at higher phys levels than barbs. Priests could get more magic exp at higher wis levels than sorcs; sorcs get more phys exp at higher mag levels than priests (but still not as much as they do now). Alchs and Thieves should be more mid-range, getting less experience in each of the balanced three -- their starting bonuses set them apart, give them advantages over the mainstream classes.

The other three skill areas function like always.

There's my idea, hope it makes sense, what do y'all think?

[Zurkiba]

Easy way to fix this

Warrior - More HP per Level
Barb - More attack damage
Mage - NO HP Levelup... No Weapons, No Armor
Alchemist - No Weapons, No Armor
Thief - Dunno

When a Talisman is inuse... HP is booted down to 1 HP or something. Because I admit... As a warrior, I got about 1k xp a day. Now as a Warrior Mage... I get 10k xp an hour.

[Locke_boy]

Originally posted by aylad
There's my idea, hope it makes sense, what do y'all think?

I read through 90% of it. I think it's a very good idea.

[_0AfTeRsHoCk0_]

Then make melee skills more harder to acquire, or different sword damage. Who's going to clean out a dungeon and level up first? Someone with magic who runs by enemies, or someone who has to strike them down 1 by 1?

[graaliholic]

Originally posted by _0AfTeRsHoCk0_
sorceror with no body armor wouldn't dare launch his mass spells on baddies in the middle of the floor unless he had armor on.

The more armor you wear the less likely a spell works, and if you fail a spell you lose half of the sp that the spell costs.

Originally posted by Zurkiba
Mage - NO HP Levelup... No Weapons, No Armor
Alchemist - No Weapons, No Armor

When a Talisman is inuse... HP is booted down to 1 HP or something.

Mage - If they never got any HP then a level 9 wizard would be easily beaten by anyone/anything
Alchemist - They would have a VERY hard time leveling
And the about talisman, then if you lagged near a monster you're dead for sure

[MasterNuke]

also us sorcerors have bad high-end spells... such as missile swarm acting just like magic missile does... useless. Town Portal does nothing, animate weapon and dancing sword just sit there... . The fact that the best spell at the moment is the level SIX spell create bomb... which is an easy level for anyone to get.

Also.... Talismans are too cheap... about half price as a scroll of ledgermain... and you can't lose Talismans...
Idea about Talismans... make the wearer be able to use only level 1 spells...

[FFusion]

Originally posted by Zurkiba

Mage - NO HP Levelup... No Weapons, No Armor

...Do you know how much hp sorcerers start with? Under 8 and if you are lucky you get more. You would probably be dead with one hit from anything, with the natural AC you started with.

I am not trying to be mean or anything. Just trying to say its a bad idea.

[graaliholic]

Originally posted by MasterNuke
Idea about Talismans... make the wearer be able to use only level 1 spells...

Or just make them more expensive:o

[FFusion]

It's pretty easy to balance the classes. Make it so sorcerers can't use melee and melee classes can't use magic. Alchemist can use use both. Just an idea.

[Locke_boy]

Originally posted by _0AfTeRsHoCk0_
Then make melee skills more harder to acquire, or different sword damage. Who's going to clean out a dungeon and level up first? Someone with magic who runs by enemies, or someone who has to strike them down 1 by 1?

Well, here's my idea to help those who attack with physical attacks. I'm not sure how this could balance out with magic, but I'm sure that this would help anyone who relies solely on their blade.

With each successful attack, a bit of experience is gained, and when a monster is killed, the player gets a tad more experience than someone who killed it with magic might get. I think that would help those who use physical attacks be more balanced with magic users. Ah, and they would only get this experience bonus if they only used physical attacks on it, no magic in between attacks .. because someone could just weaken a smoky, let's say, to very low HP with magic bullet, then slice it and kill it. I've done that before, and it wouldn't be fair unless it worked this way..

Okay! Well .. that's just an idea of mine.

[graaliholic]

Originally posted by FFusion
It's pretty easy to balance the classes. Make it so sorcerers can't use melee and melee classes can't use magic. Alchemist can use use both. Just an idea.

Or just make it so sorcerers can't start with melee weapons scroll.

[Locke_boy]

Originally posted by FFusion
It's pretty easy to balance the classes. Make it so sorcerers can't use melee and melee classes can't use magic. Alchemist can use use both. Just an idea.

That wouldn't balance the classes. Just think about it .. with how things are, it is very difficult to level only using melee attacks. Sorcerers would become much stronger much faster than would warriors.

[TerrorBite]

The only reason I don't use a warrior is that due to my bandwidth, I cannot fight tough monsters without being hit rapidly before I can strike. I do like the skill scroll system, because it gives players who would like to use other tactics the abilty to do so without having to restart their character. Also, I think that warriors or barbarians should have more skills to help balance them out. Besides, higher level warriors and barbarians can take out those t-rexes without too much trouble (I've witnessed someone just splatter them like crazy with a naginita).

In time things will be fixed, but this is still alpha :P

[Jeff]

Go about it like the fightermage dual/multis in Baldur's Gate. Ya put on armor, ya can't cast spells.

[Locke_boy]

Originally posted by Jeff
Go about it like the fightermage dual/multis in Baldur's Gate. Ya put on armor, ya can't cast spells.

Well, if you wear armour and try to cast spells, you usually mess up because of the heavy equipment, so in a way, that's implemented.

[aylad]

Originally posted by MasterNuke
Idea about Talismans... make the wearer be able to use only level 1 spells...

I rarely come out and say this about a post, but.... WOW that's a dumb idea. Obviously this person either A. did not think about the post or B. has never been an Alchemist, or C. both. Probably B, never been an Alch.

Alchemists have to use the talismans to cast Alchemy. Alchemy is a level 3 spell. This would create a problem, don't you think?

Zurk's idea wasn't very well thought-out, either, imo.

Class-based spell restrictions, on the other hand, would do almost the same thing without causing such problems. As an alternative to the system I proposed earlier, what about assigning a "level" to each weapon/armor item, and doing it like: Warriors and Barbs can't use spells above, say, level 3. Sorcs and Priests can't use weapons/armors above level 3. Thiefs and Alchs can't use weapons, armors, or spells above level.... umm..... maybe 5.

The level numbers could be changed, I don't know enough about spells (or the hypothetical weapon/armor levels) to say for sure what the limits should be. But it's a thought, anyway.

Btw... weapon/armor level would have nothing to do with what level you must be at to wield it. A level 1 warrior should still be able to wield a lvl 9 sword.

[ReaperJ]

Its jsut far easier to level as a mage, and like the dude with the rebel flag said, warriors should get more hp per level, ect ect

but i dont agree with how he delt with the tailsmen issue.

[FFusion]

or maybe if you are wearing a talisman you consume more sp in order to cast spells.

[Zurkiba]

Originally posted by graaliholic


1)The more armor you wear the less likely a spell works, and if you fail a spell you lose half of the sp that the spell costs.



2)Mage - If they never got any HP then a level 9 wizard would be easily beaten by anyone/anything
Alchemist - They would have a VERY hard time leveling
And the about talisman, then if you lagged near a monster you're dead for sure

(I numbered them)

1) Not really... I wear my armor all the time and cast spells... they dont work when I have my axe in hand. Plus they can take it off.

2) Mage - They dont need HP do they? No... they just stand in the halls and cast spells and spells and spells. So they dont need HP. I've dueled some Mages before... they just cast some huge spell and then they run around in circles. So they dont need HP

Alchemist - Not really... Soon there will be exp for making potions and what ever they do.

Talisman - You dont need to use it in the combat zone... just use it in the halls.




See... my point is this. What's the point of classes without ups and downs? I'm a Warrior and I'm almost as strong as the best mages X_x....

[aylad]

Originally posted by Zurkiba
1) Not really... I wear my armor all the time and cast spells... they dont work when I have my axe in hand. Plus they can take it off.

2) Mage - They dont need HP do they? No... they just stand in the halls and cast spells and spells and spells. So they dont need HP. I've dueled some Mages before... they just cast some huge spell and then they run around in circles. So they dont need HP

3.)Alchemist - Not really... Soon there will be exp for making potions and what ever they do.

4.)Talisman - You dont need to use it in the combat zone... just use it in the halls.

5.)See... my point is this. What's the point of classes without ups and downs? I'm a Warrior and I'm almost as strong as the best mages X_x....

1.)Really. It doesn't become a real problem unless you're fully equipped, though.

2.)What the crap? Have you ever played as a mage? Mages need HP as bad as warriors do!!! And were these duels before or after the charging time was added?

3.)Alchs have already got the potion-exp thing, we've had it for a long time. Character level (and thus HP) is easy... but what about leveling in other areas, like physique? Are alchs condemned to be noncombatants? That would be bad game design. All classes should be able to fight (with different levels of effectiveness) melee battles. WITH armor and weapons, not just punching.

4.)No comment here.

5.)We all agree different classes should have different ups and downs. But I have to say, there must be a much better answer than your system.

[Juron Pilo]

Warriors suck for killing monsters and mages suck for pvp
warriors can't do much damadge to monsters BUT they have a good hit chance against other humans
Mages on the other hand have that horrible spell delay WHICH SHOULD BE FIXED

[TerrorBite]

yes, it is sheer folley when a mage goes up against a warrior in a duel ((done it myself many times, lost like 4 hands of fingers)). That halls thing is silly, it takes way too long to level up by standing in a hall and casting spells :P. Yes, mages need hp, how many times have I been burned by a dievil that stopped my spell? More than I can count :P. However I cannot think of a really good way to balance things out, maybe giving warriors and barbarians "fighting spirits" or something :P. Also, I imagine as time goes by, mages will have difficulty reaching the super high levels, due to the set power that spells have, where as barbarians and warriors will get more and more powerful weapons and their level increases damage(?).

[Juron Pilo]

actually Chibi warriors are stuck at the same power too(funny enough its near the exact same power as your spells... which get to hit all enemies with range multiple times in one casting... eh...) but worse.... WE HAVE TO GET UP CLOSE TO DO ANYTHING. for somre reason, although I can discern no value that is being changed... I feel as if I'm being hit for less now... I COULD just chalk it up to increased hp but that would be a bit farfetched with what little hp I've gained(lvl 7 to lvl 9) oh yeah.... concerning the talisman: let us cast all spells please... I've never seen a scroll of wizardry and all... don't worry about people multi classing... as we gain more and more monsters and weapons and get higher and higher levels those items will increase in price(or so I predict)