I want answers

[Kamaeru]

Originally Posted by kia345

also I don't criticize nintendo, I criticize nintendo fans. nintendo's fine, they're the best producers of average content around


anyone who thinks bayo or any other nintendo exclusive plays better than nier is bananas

I've played both extensively, there is absolutely no comparison. Nier is good but has major problems with the gameplay (very similar quality situation to other recent games by Platinum such as Transformers Devastation), Bayonetta 2 is well known palpably and established in the action game community as the best action game ever made (subjective opinion, sure, but nier isn't getting unanimous praise at all so the contrast is stark here).

Zelda BOTW on the other hand is better than both games.

You're arguing from an emotional, reactionary, knee-jerk position because you personally hate Nintendo and the people who enjoy their games. I do not personally hate Sony, I just disagree with what they do. I think they are dangerous and self-destructive to the video game industry. Can you imagine having this position? Something that isn't entirely condemning the people you disagree with for your own sense of righteousness? I just don't hate them, I'm not stupid enough to fall into this emotional trap with them. Playstation is a good system and their fans are pretty cool too. Just because it's not as good as Nintendo systems, there's not anything wrong with that. I have said nothing even defammatory about the validity of that platform for games, which is why I have pointed it out as a possible target platform.

My main issue with PS4 is that the square button is too close to the pause button/touch pad. I tried playing Mega Man collection and it made me want to kill myself because I would accidentally pause about 30% of the time I was trying to press the shoot button. Playstation isn't wack. Nobody is wack, they just need to work on their stuff a little better before jumping into a nuanced and honest debate about facts and evidence that back up positions about what is demonstrably a better design.

Can't handle when people give you a hard time for your preference of video game? Suck it up, Nintendo fans have been dealing with this for their entire lives. It's not going to stop, it's going to get worse, and eventually Sony will even release a platform that bombs even worse than PS3 and Vita. There are going to be ups and downs, and there are going to be people who are going to make fun of you for preference. It's petty and tribalistic, yeah, but Nintendo fans have had the worst end of this stick for almost 20-30 years. Now Sony fans are butthurt that the tables are turning a bit, and it's beyond hilarious to watch them unable to receive what they have dished out.

If you go around saying "Zelda isn't that amazing of a game!", what is going to happen is that every time a reasonably mannered human being (someone who probably owns a Wii U and a copy of the game) hears you say it you will lose a ton of credibility points. It's a really really really good game.

There, now you can blame me for derailing the thread even though my original post was completely on-topic. Now back to playing Zelda.

[StrykerTFFD]

I guess some things never change.

[Lyndzey]

Originally Posted by StrykerTFFD

I guess some things never change.

are you still a GP

[StrykerTFFD]

Originally Posted by Lyndzey

are you still a GP

Nah I haven't checked in with Graal in like...5-6 years. I decided to look at the forums a few days ago.

[Kamaeru]

gaming centrists btfo

[Crow]

Whew, this thread is weird. I feel like throwing my hat in the ring as well, though, especially since I finally finished BotW yesterday, after about 105 hours of playing it. A few thoughts in no particular order:

BotW was great, but I agree with the 8/10, because it has too many flaws to be considered groundbreaking. The world was beautiful, and I love exploration, so it gave me a lot there. What it has in world variety, though, it doesn't have in, uh, "other" variety. I really wish there would be more types of monsters, for example, and shrine variety was also ****, and I'm not even talking about complexity of those. "Look, we have 120 shrines!" Uh-huh, and how many of those were "combat trials" or ones with only a chest in it because you apparently earned it by simply finding the thing? And, god dammit, something like 90% of the shrines were piss easy. I really hated that part in the end. The divine beasts were similarly unchallenging. Ugh. In the end, I still liked the game (105 hours, remember?). But it could've been a lot better. Oh yea, horse controls also suck hard.

Next thought! Wii U has the best games? Hell no. I bought mine for Splatoon only, pretty much, which was worth it considering the 800 hours I spent playing it. Sold the Wii U once I got my Switch. Wii U has some good games, but failed as a whole. On the topic of Splatoon: it's amazing, and I can't wait for the sequel. But it's different from other shooters, so I don't see a point in comparing it to any. I regularly play CS:GO, Overwatch and Battlefield 1 and love them all, and Splatoon 2 will join the ranks once it's out. Kamaeru, you're asking what's on the PS4? Huh, let's see. There's Bloodborne, The Last of Us, Horizon: Zero Dawn, inFAMOUS, Driveclub, Persona 5, Ratchet & Clank, ... can't think of any others right now.

Final thought: I like Nintendo. I like what they did with the Switch. BotW was pretty cool (was because replayability is literally zero). I think third party devs will like the Switch as well. Nintendo are not gods, though, and they sure as hell are not making the best games currently available.

[Kamaeru]

Originally Posted by Crow

Bloodborne, The Last of Us, Horizon: Zero Dawn, inFAMOUS, Driveclub, Persona 5, Ratchet & Clank

I have played these, so you won't be able to sneak past me like this is a good list of games. These games suck.

The horse controls aren't good in BOTW

Wrong.

I agree with you on everything else, BOTW is easy as heck for me especially after completing Zelda 2 recently the hard way (no save states). Splatoon is just...wow. I cannot praise Splatoon enough, but I felt the same way about Pikmin 3 which is highly underrated.

Still, it's more of a mix between Zelda and Animal Crossing style gameplay, and as such it is extremely groundbreaking in the sense that there has literally never been a game of the sort. They tried something new and it worked. The meat and potatoes this game has to offer do not lie in conventional linear straightforward gameplay. I have spent a few hundred hours with the game and I have only completed 2 of the dungeons. It is a game for people who like to make their own open-ended fun, so people for instance who like to rely on others solely for entertainment might not like it as much as I did. For those type of people, I suggest the type of games that are half-movie half-game hybrids like Uncharted, or Metal Gear Solid which is a much better game than Uncharted that does this in a less annoying style.

Here's my list of criticisms of Zelda BOTW:

-Weapons don't break fast enough (always have a full inventory of them even after collecting most of the korok seeds)

-The main bosses are not imaginative (i love the OW minibosses on the other hand)

-No fishing rod (fishing is top tier in this game, in fact it's a strength, and you can even use bait. but why do i have to do it with a bow or spears?)


That's literally it. I tried to think of something else that bothers me, but honestly none of the other stuff does. I thought I would hate the fact that traditional dungeons aren't in the game but the truth is that I started loving it once I got further into the game. It's refreshing and makes it never feel like I am going down a laundry list of chores. At one point I found a crack in the ground near a far edge of the map, and I bombed it revealing an underground cave with a shrine inside that was easily as large and complex as a mid-tier dungeon from any Zelda game. It's stuff like this that Nintendo is the master of. They always come out of left field right when you think you have them figured out. There is never a linear moment in the game, and there has never been a game to even attempt that before. This unmasks Grand Theft Auto, Skyrim, Fallout and all the other "open world" games as completely linear games hiding behind open maps.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Kamaeru

<Nier feeling at all like some of Platinum's shitty recent releases>

Yeah sorry now I really don't think you a solid try

Zelda BOTW on the other hand is better than both games.

Maybe for the first half hour

You're arguing from an emotional, reactionary, knee-jerk position

Didn't you just make up a line about almost 100% (under 50%) of "successful games" are Nintendo, along with some drivel that the Wii U is a successful console despite being outsold by everything else to laughable degrees with main reason being a terrible library

because you personally hate Nintendo and the people who enjoy their games.

Nah, I just think too many people are far too biased when it comes to them because they're the emotional reactionaries. Nintendo's recent history has had a **** ton of mediocrity, and Nintendo's safety net is the exact opposite of innovation, it's reselling or rehashing old successes. You already stupidly praised them for "innovation" without explaining what that meant. That same innovation that launched the worst selling console of last generation, with oh-so-innovative controller. Or is a new Mario side scroller every year what you meant by innovation?


And BoTW is a solid 8/10.

I do not personally hate Sony, I just disagree with what they do. I think they are dangerous and self-destructive to the video game industry. Can you imagine having this position? Something that isn't entirely condemning the people you disagree with for your own sense of righteousness? I just don't hate them, I'm not stupid enough to fall into this emotional trap with them.

How dare they produce successful video games and consoles to a changing market. That's the real innovation, the kind that makes money. And I dunno, you sound like the one with a really warped sense of righteousness. I'm just calling you out on blatant lies and general overhyping of an above average product. I don't hate either company, nor do I like them. They're companies. They just exist. But you certainly are stupid enough to fall into an emotional trap.

Just because it's not as good as Nintendo systems

Aren't they objectively better machines that routinely ship more games, with the Wii being a fluke because of its party games, which was also the first and last time "innovation" worked out?

My main issue with PS4 is that the square button is too close to the pause button/touch pad.

Yeah sony controllers have always been **** tbf, gamecube and dreamcast had it right

Can't handle when people give you a hard time for your preference of video game? Suck it up, Nintendo fans have been dealing with this for their entire lives. It's not going to stop, it's going to get worse, and eventually Sony will even release a platform that bombs even worse than PS3 and Vita. There are going to be ups and downs, and there are going to be people who are going to make fun of you for preference. It's petty and tribalistic, yeah, but Nintendo fans have had the worst end of this stick for almost 20-30 years. Now Sony fans are butthurt that the tables are turning a bit, and it's beyond hilarious to watch them unable to receive what they have dished out.

Man I haven't even owned a Sony console since the PSP so I don't really know where you're pulling this Sonyfan **** from, but Nintendo fans have been dealing with this because they're mostly obsessive weirdos who think their detached, mediocre company that pumps a lot of garbage and a few gems is any different than the other detached, mediocre companies that pump out a lot garbage and few gems. At least irrational Sonyfans have the courtesy to stay out of sight and write Kingdom Hearts fanfic.

If you go around saying "Zelda isn't that amazing of a game!", what is going to happen is that every time a reasonably mannered human being (someone who probably owns a Wii U and a copy of the game) hears you say it you will lose a ton of credibility points. It's a really really really good game.

It is a pretty good game but it is by no stretch of the imagination the game that it is being celebrated as. It's gameplay is nice and smooth but it's also very simple to an almost insulting degree because it never threatens the player with any complexity, and while the story is leagues deeper than the typical Zelda game it's still a very shallow and one dimensional one beyond the opening. It's a good Zelda game. It's a good game in general. But it is not perfect, and it's not close to perfect. It's certainly one of the best open world games that I've stopped giving a **** about to be released this decade, but it's not the best by any means. It's shallow. Shallow in mechanics, shallow in story, and shallow in scope. Which is fine, plenty of great games are shallow. I couldn't begin to tell you what Gauntlet is about, but I still love that piece of ****. But if a game is going to be praised as jesus in a box it better off something more than "the usual but a bit better". So yeah, if one of the six people in the world who own a Wii U wanna come at me, be my guest.


And Nier is waaaaaay better.

[Kamaeru]

Wii was an amazing system and it has better hardcore games than PS3 / 360 which are failed platforms. You have emotional triggered reactions to the memories of when the wee-wee jokes weren't getting through to all your friends and they all bought the console that was supposedly "not mature". Motion controls were innovative. Many games used them in innovative ways, such as Metroid Prime 3. People have fun with it.

When I make the argument that Wii U has better games than PS4, that's because it's palpable. What even is there on PS4 that compares to the quality level of Bayonetta 2, Pikmin 3, Super Mario Maker, Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze, Xenoblade X, etc?

They literally have no games on a similar tier of quality whatsoever, I'm sorry but Fallout isn't cutting it compared to BOTW and Skyrim is beyond sad.

Want to play the funnest and most innovative new online multiplayer shooter game complete with match lobby times taking around ~5 seconds and zero server lag on your Plebstation/Xbox tier platform? Too bad, they don't have Splatoon on those or even on Steam. If you want to play that you need Wii U or Switch. Honestly, I don't even see a comparison here, Wii U annihilates the other platforms when it comes to quality content that is refreshing to play that I actually enjoy. I get if it's not your personal preference, but Nintendo has consistently amazed me in recent years contrary to your claim that they make mediocre games. I agree, Mario Party is lame, and I never buy those games. They sell like 50 million copies each though and lots of people enjoy them, while Zelda and Metroid games often only sell around 2 million each.

The fact that Nintendo even bothers making the traditional games you're criticizing them for making is actually a blessing they give us, because financially they don't have a huge amount of incentive to do it. They do it for the people like me who actually greatly appreciate them for it, and I assume it's because Kyoto-based business philosophy is greatly concerned with the subjects of honor and integrity.

[Kamaeru]

BTW this thread is super hilarious and entertaining to me now. I really wanted to talk about the actual subject of this thread bahahaha

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Kamaeru

Wii was an amazing system and it has better hardcore games than PS3 / 360 which are failed platforms.

lmao

Metroid Prime 3. People have fun with it.

"as of March 2008, 1.31 million copies of the game were sold worldwide."
"by January 2008, Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare had sold more than 7 million copies worldwide"

Wow it's almost like innovation is proven completely meaningless, and Nintendo's true success, like IW's, is in rehashing successful properties.

When I make the argument that Wii U has better games than PS4, that's because it's palpable. What even is there on PS4 that compares to the quality level of Bayonetta 2, Pikmin 3, Super Mario Maker, Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze, Xenoblade X, etc?

Yeah I wonder why the Wii U was a flop then

They literally have no games on a similar tier of quality whatsoever, I'm sorry but Fallout isn't cutting it compared to BOTW and Skyrim is beyond sad.

No arguments there

Want to play the funnest and most innovative new online multiplayer shooter game complete with match lobby times taking around ~5 seconds and zero server lag on your Plebstation/Xbox tier platform? Too bad, they don't have Splatoon on those or even on Steam. If you want to play that you need Wii U or Switch.

Sorry I'll just play Overwatch, "innovation" is, again, a completely meaningless qualifier, and "fun" is subjective. I'm glad it took Nintendo three consoles to get passable online working though.

Honestly, I don't even see a comparison here, Wii U annihilates the other platforms when it comes to quality content that is refreshing to play that I actually enjoy. I get if it's not your personal preference, but Nintendo has consistently amazed me in recent years contrary to your claim that they make mediocre games. I agree, Mario Party is lame, and I never buy those games. They sell like 50 million copies each though and lots of people enjoy them, while Zelda and Metroid games often only sell around 2 million each.

See, that's fine, that's subjective. But if you're trying to pitch a Nintendo console as successful, especially the Wii, the only way to back it up is the party games. For every Metroid Prime 3 there was a Red Steel. Remember how "innovative!!" that was? It was terrible, and they had to update the controllers just to make them work like everyone expected them to. "Innovative" "hardcore" games hardly use innovation as more than a gimmick, where the game would be just as or more enjoyable without it. No More Heroes was my favorite new IP when it launched on the Wii, but I can safely say that it's handled better anywhere else. Metroid is, without a doubt, my favorite franchise, especially the Prime games. And 3 is great! But don't brag about it's innovation when I can name off rattle off a handful of other games without motion controls that sold so much more that it's hardly a footnote. Fun and successful are completely unrelated. My favorite game is ****ing E.G.G. and I don't even know if it pushed four digits worth of sales in America, but it's fun as ****. Having fun with something isn't a sign of success.

They do it for the people like me who actually greatly appreciate them for it, and I assume it's because Kyoto-based business philosophy is greatly concerned with the subjects of honor and integrity.

They it do it because they need to pay yakuza debts, probably

The best thing Nintendo has going for them is that they're the only ones who still believe in local co-op.