So?

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Kamaeru

I will have to respectfully disagree, as I personally do not believe iPhone should remain the indefinite future of Graal if there is to be a future for Graal. Nobody actually wants to play Graal2001 other than Graal2001 players at the moment. Exactly 0% of those Graal2001 players are dying to play it on iPhone. The server could easily be restored to a point where it would be playable for those players who wish to have access, and it would be a great justice to the community of Graal to do something like that instead of a big derpy iPhone revival, which is a terrible idea.

I can't imagine the server maintaining a steady playercount solely based on old Graal2001 players. I guess it depends on what the plan is for PC Graal in general, but a server with no players would have been removed from the serverlist in the past. Though now that iPhone is center of attention for the administration those kind of standards may not hold true anymore.

I still think that in order to revive the server you're going to need to introduce a new playerbase and iPhone, Android, Facebook, whatever is the only viable route towards that. It just makes the server more accessible as opposed to the stagnating PC client which hasn't seen any movement in years. Unless you really are just looking for a 'museum' to log on for nostalgia purposes or something, but like Dusty said, that seems like a waste of real effort.

Originally Posted by Kamaeru

Before you guys took my rights away I was actually doing that, yes. I get the feeling you iPhone goons ruined all the work we were doing as well as probably left the server basically a train wreck from the looks of the story I just got out of Rufus.

The 'iPhone project' was housed on a separate server.

[Kamaeru]

Originally Posted by Rufus

I can't imagine the server maintaining a steady playercount solely based on old Graal2001 players.

Go to Era, Zodiac, etc and use the same logic, that their server is not viable because they're old players, and see the reaction. In fact, go to a RUSH concert and try arguing with RUSH fans using that logic, see how it goes. You're just wrong about this.

It just makes the server more accessible as opposed to the stagnating PC client which hasn't seen any movement in years.

And your solution is what? Stifle out any PC Graal development growth? If PC Graal is such a non-threat then let legitimate projects develop. Your logic is "PC Graal is not as good as iPhone Graal, therefore PC projects won't help Graal grow". That makes absolutely no sense and you are part of the problem. If something is not seeing any movement, hitting the brakes is not how you solve that problem. You're looking for the gas pedal. Now hand in your license because you're driving drunk.

like Dusty said, that seems like a waste of real effort.

That's because you guys are not Graal2001 fans. I don't even remember you or Dusty ever playing back in those days, I could be incorrect about that but you were not the developers I ever worked with, or players I ever played with. The fact that you believe opening this server to the players is a waste of effort is full testament of the fact that you don't intend on actually helping and are working to stop Graal2001 from seeing the light of day.

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by Kamaeru

And your solution is what? Stifle out any PC Graal development growth? If PC Graal is such a non-threat then let legitimate projects develop. Your logic is "PC Graal is not as good as iPhone Graal, therefore PC projects won't help Graal grow". That makes absolutely no sense and you are part of the problem. If something is not seeing any movement, hitting the brakes is not how you solve that problem. You're looking for the gas pedal. Now hand in your license because you're driving drunk.

Why does it have to be one or the other? As someone who's been working actively on a server project for a long time, it's clear as day to me that the only path forward for ANY new server project - revival or not - is to focus on cross-platform support.

Servers can, and should, be available on PC, iOS, Android and Flash. Limiting to one or the other would be very naive. This isn't the golden Graal days of 99-05 anymore.

[Kamaeru]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

This isn't the golden Graal days of 99-05 anymore.

Actually not sure if you were aware of the subject of conversation but it's Graal2001 that we are currently discussing. If you argue that dedicating development of a game to a single platform is a bad business move you should ask real world game developers why they decide to take that route all the time. In my opinion it is a waste of development resource and time to try and make Graal2001 multiplatform, and to show how realistic my thoughts are these guys couldn't even get 1 month into their attempt before giving up.

[JesusFreak250]

Originally Posted by Kamaeru

Actually not sure if you were aware of the subject of conversation but it's Graal2001 that we are currently discussing. If you argue that dedicating development of a game to a single platform is a bad business move you should ask real world game developers why they decide to take that route all the time. In my opinion it is a waste of development resource and time to try and make Graal2001 multiplatform, and to show how realistic my thoughts are these guys couldn't even get 1 month into their attempt before giving up.

In the case of Graal, of course it would be a bad business move to just release on PC. At this moment iClassic alone has 40x more people online than the entire PC client, and because of the micro transactions I'm sure it generates a hell of a lot more than 40x the profit. By making the game cross-platform you're opening it up to a new audience of thousands of players. I'm not saying the server would instantly grow to this size but it would definitely be a lot bigger than if it was just released to the client. Whether you'd want that many players is your opinion but saying it'd be a bad business move would just be wrong.

[Kamaeru]

Originally Posted by JesusFreak250

In the case of Graal, of course it would be a bad business move to just release on PC. At this moment iClassic alone has 40x more people online than the entire PC client, and because of the micro transactions I'm sure it generates a hell of a lot more than 40x the profit. By making the game cross-platform you're opening it up to a new audience of thousands of players. I'm not saying the server would instantly grow to this size but it would definitely be a lot bigger than if it was just released to the client. Whether you'd want that many players is your opinion but saying it'd be a bad business move would just be wrong.

Adding microtransactions to Graal2001 would fundamentally change the entire game at its core concepts. The amount of fundamental changes to the gameplay and economy of Graal2001 would be so drastic that it would make more sense to just develop a new server, because the end result would not resemble the Graal2001 gameplay everone loves one way or the other. Tell me again how that's a good business move? I'm sorry but you guys are way off on a tangent, and I'm not listening to a word of it because it's palpably demonstrable nonsense. Myself and all of the people who have been heavily involved with Graal2001 are going to look at what you've said here and laugh. How do we factor the market economy into a hypothetical microtransaction cash shop? You're creating a can of worms here that does not need to be opened, because Graal2001 already has its own problems that need real world engineering to fix. Proposing we add more problems to the development of Graal2001 is absolutely stupid.

Graal2001 is a high quality game, and high quality games are found on dedicated platforms period. With your logic Nintendo should just make Zelda and Mario games multiplatform cash-grabs with microtransaction cash shops while they're at it.

...

(here's a hint: that's not a good idea at all)

[JesusFreak250]

Originally Posted by Kamaeru

Adding microtransactions to Graal2001 would fundamentally change the entire game at its core concepts. The amount of fundamental changes to the gameplay and economy of Graal2001 would be so drastic that it would make more sense to just develop a new server, because the end result would not resemble the Graal2001 gameplay everone loves one way or the other. Tell me again how that's a good business move? I'm sorry but you guys are way off on a tangent, and I'm not listening to a word of it because it's palpably demonstrable nonsense. Myself and all of the people who have been heavily involved with Graal2001 are going to look at what you've said here and laugh. How do we factor the market economy into a hypothetical microtransaction cash shop? You're creating a can of worms here that does not need to be opened, because Graal2001 already has its own problems that need real world engineering to fix. Proposing we add more problems to the development of Graal2001 is absolutely stupid.

Graal2001 is a high quality game, and high quality games are found on dedicated platforms period. With your logic Nintendo should just make Zelda and Mario games multiplatform cash-grabs with microtransaction cash shops while they're at it.

...

(here's a hint: that's not a good idea at all)

A good business move would be one that is profitable, you're telling me monetizing a game while increasing the playercount dramatically isn't? Either way I do think that the way microtransactions are executed on iServers is horrible but there's different ways they could be implemented without using a cash shop and ruining the economy.

My point is more to do with the playerbase rather than the money side of things though. I don't doubt you'd be able to recreate the game perfectly but what's the point of that if no one plays and how fun would it really be? I don't know how many people you think are still around from 2001 but I can't imagine there's a great deal and those alone wouldn't be enough to hold a stable playercount. You might get some new players but unless you're able to provide something really different from other servers then not many people are going to want to play. Graal PC isn't what it once was and for Graal2001 to really thrive again it would need to be accessible through other means than just the client.

Also, the reason Nintendo works is because by making their games exclusive they are promoting their platform, if they didn't make games like Legend of Zelda or Mario exclusive do you think nearly as many people would buy their consoles? Not sure about you but I for one wouldn't.

[prozacboy666]

The server is currently running in a hidden view not making any money for the game so why not let someone who is this passionate about it try to bring it back? It does not cost the company any more money, the server is wasting by being hosted right now.

Talking about who will play or not people will play is a moot point until the server is back.

Kamaeru, I see your passion and I hope they give you a chance. I know I would come back and play on that server again.