Learning Level Design.

[DaBoss]

Dear Players,

As you may know of me as Jigga as a player with crappy history and I would like to state that in the aspect of making me a better player and not just a player who "revives servers that should be dead" I've decided to take on a development field which is level designing and I would like your honest feedback as I am trying to help rebuild my reputation with you fellow Graalians and have a cleanstart as I know i've lead bad patterns in the past and I want to end that all now. I will post two pictures one of my inside level and one of my outside level below and would like your input on what is needed and what you think.







Thank You,
Jigga

[Imperialistic]

Hi,

You really shouldn't make your levels so predictable, not so much as a bad thing but you're using certain tiles repetitively.


Outside:
-Tables are obnoxious and they don't make sense
-Should use more imagination with them and make them Graal-realistic

-Stone Path doesn't have much design to it
-Use a better design to give it some tang and there is so many tile errors

-Spamming the window tiles
-Don't use the window tiles so much


Inside:
-Stairs/Crates/WhateverTheyAre don't make any sense.
-Make them Graal-realistic and a better sense of design in it

-The level shape & size is not right.
-I believe the level is too small for all the stuff you want in it

-Floor is just bland
-Don't be afraid to add more then one design , the floor is a big part in levels (imo)

The levels are decent but they crave more detail and design to them.

[DaBoss]

Thank you Imp,

I will do my best to improve and your advice is greatly appreciated!

[tempandrew]

The outside level is boring. Aside from the fact that I absolutely hate this tileset, You put little detail into it, and your stone path looks iffy. Doesn't seem to make much sense. If you're going to have a sheet of pavement in front of a house, It's not so recommended that you make a path within the pavement, because it looks weird, however if you want to go with that, I would make it straight.

A lot of new LATs have this crazy fascination with thinking 'chaotic is good', when it's not. The aim in LATing is making sense; and a lot of LATs don't do that. Before you place something in a level, think for a second, 'does this make sense in this specific location'. Don't put a fence in the middle of no where, fences are used to keep people in or out of an area. Don't place tall grass in the middle of a town where people will be walking, it should be in forests and 'backalley' areas, places people don't normally go, and where nobody is concerned with keeping the grass neat. Weeds and bushes tend to grow near each other, don't randomly dot them, put them in little tufts or patches. When making dirt paths, don't make them perfectly straight, but don't make them going in every which way either. It looks good to have it be a little random, but at a certain point, LATs make it look so out of order that when you look at it you have to stop and think "why are people walking here so often that the grass died?"



As for your attempts at regaining a 'positive reputation' around Graal, as much as you're on my list of people who should be permanently banned, I have to commend you for trying to correct yourself and enter society as a normal person that can actually be accepted. I believe in second chances, but boy, do you need to work on this one.

[racycle]

Looks good , not a bad start. I dont like the rockpath infront of the house , i cant see why anyone would have a path like that there. other then that theres a few errors in the cliffs and the watertiles were repeated makign a grid.

as for the inside , only thing is the crates on the wall, theres fine but try moving them down a tile and putting them more ontop of each over.

not a bad start :P

[DaBoss]

Originally Posted by tempandrew

The outside level is boring. Aside from the fact that I absolutely hate this tileset, You put little detail into it, and your stone path looks iffy. Doesn't seem to make much sense. If you're going to have a sheet of pavement in front of a house, It's not so recommended that you make a path within the pavement, because it looks weird, however if you want to go with that, I would make it straight.

A lot of new LATs have this crazy fascination with thinking 'chaotic is good', when it's not. The aim in LATing is making sense; and a lot of LATs don't do that. Before you place something in a level, think for a second, 'does this make sense in this specific location'. Don't put a fence in the middle of no where, fences are used to keep people in or out of an area. Don't place tall grass in the middle of a town where people will be walking, it should be in forests and 'backalley' areas, places people don't normally go, and where nobody is concerned with keeping the grass neat. Weeds and bushes tend to grow near each other, don't randomly dot them, put them in little tufts or patches. When making dirt paths, don't make them perfectly straight, but don't make them going in every which way either. It looks good to have it be a little random, but at a certain point, LATs make it look so out of order that when you look at it you have to stop and think "why are people walking here so often that the grass died?"



As for your attempts at regaining a 'positive reputation' around Graal, as much as you're on my list of people who should be permanently banned, I have to commend you for trying to correct yourself and enter society as a normal person that can actually be accepted. I believe in second chances, but boy, do you need to work on this one.

Thanks alot, I will and better my levels and repost for a second input from you, and for the rep part thanks. I just want a second chance to better myself.

[DrakilorP2P]

I like them.

I don't have much comment on the outside level, except that it looks like it's hard to leave because there are blocking things all around.

The inside level is straightforward in a good way. I think the floor could work better if it was monotone instead of having a complicated pattern.

[LordSquirt]

I think the levels are pretty good for a beginner.

PS: Who made your tileset? I like it

[DaBoss]

Originally Posted by DrakilorP2P

I like them.

I don't have much comment on the outside level, except that it looks like it's hard to leave because there are blocking things all around.

The inside level is straightforward in a good way. I think the floor could work better if it was monotone instead of having a complicated pattern.

Thank you for the input as the outside is simply a level made for people to fish for like a fishing quest...and for the inside thank you so much =]

[racycle]

the grass was edited from dustys tileset he released in free forums


along with the trees, the walls were on the same tileset and its where I got my color pallet for the wood on the walls,stone path was on free tiles forum i just darkened, along with the tables , unless i missed somethign the rest was done by me

[DaBoss]

Yeah those tiles are great to use for levels..give the levels some sexyness lol.

[Matt]

Pretty good level for not being very experienced with level making. I'd have to agree with Imp's advice also.

[DaBoss]

Yeah thanks..I will do it and repost a better version.

[Matt]

Look forward to it.

[DaBoss]

Alright thank you.

[DaBoss]

Hello this is an update of my levels so far

-outside-



-inside-

[Dnegel]

The outside level is better now, but idk about the inside one.

[DrakilorP2P]

They look much better now. I didn't know it was possible to make indoor grass work well but there you go.
The added green and blue in the inside level helps a lot as a contrast to the brown. As for the outside level, removing the square stones and moving the tables made it look more natural I think.

[DaBoss]

Thanlk you so much Draklior

[adam]

I like

[Imperialistic]

Everything I told you to fix before, still needs to be fixed. =/ All you did was change the levels slightly, not even fix what we pointed out.

[coreys]

The inside level looks much better. There isn't much I'd change, other than put some more decoration on the walls so it's not so plain.

The outside level doesn't look very different.

[adam]

Originally Posted by Imperialistic

Everything I told you to fix before, still needs to be fixed. =/ All you did was change the levels slightly, not even fix what we pointed out.

It's fine, your just a little confused. Although I was impressed with your outline, it was a very good way to present your information. Good job!

[papajchris]

in the indoor i think you have some errors with dimensions. How is the box near the door 1/2 under the border, but the tables aren't? Also the grass inside does look nice, and wouldn't think twice about it if i saw it on a server, but sense wise how does grass grow in the inside? Imo i think you have to make it look more jungle like (atleast on the outside) so that it looks like the building was overran by nature (vines, etc.)

Just my opinion, the other people responding are better lats so take their advice over mine

[Switch]

Are you using layers? Usually no one puts a grass-wood floor tiles together, so I'd like to ask that.

Inside: The grass seems like it's too thick to work directly with a wood floor. Maybe try putting a small area of dirt that connects to the floor.
Outside: The grass-stone floor area seems too disheveled. Maybe try making it more planned out, then connect it with a small area of dirt then some grass. Also, still too many windows. Try putting more flowers and stuff in the grass. Not liking the shadow on the wall above the door, either.

Your level has improved a lot, but there are still a few tile errors that really stick out I'll point out.

[DaBoss]

Thank you everyone, and thank you switch..I'll post an update soon.

[Imperialistic]

Don't forget all the tiles errors with the stone path.


@Adam: It's not fine, don't tell him that everything looks good when there is still problems and errors. He is trying to better himself to be a better LAT, and beating around the bush and not telling him the truth wont improve anything. :P

[DaBoss]

Thanks Imp besides the tile errors does it look nice as the style to it?

[Imperialistic]

The outside of the house is decent, the rest of it still looks a bit messy.

[DaBoss]

Alright thanks..I'll post a new update soon for your guys great advice.

[Lord Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Imperialistic

Don't forget all the tiles errors with the stone path.


@Adam: It's not fine, don't tell him that everything looks good when there is still problems and errors. He is trying to better himself to be a better LAT, and beating around the bush and not telling him the truth wont improve anything. :P

Please tell me someone else sees the irony in this.

[warriors94]

Outside
Make the stone path ejecting from the house smaller. No one is going to make something that huge. Add grass detail. Maybe some moss around the cliffs because water constantly washes up. Some flowers around the house, people like flowers. Stones/Mushrooms/Rocks that block (The one tile ones) put against the trees so they aren't in the way yet add some detail. You're outside level is boring, but all in all, it has potential.
Inside
Floor is boring. I like how you added grass though. Walls are all the same, change them around.

PSon't Reply to me with some "Thanks" or something. It's not needed and just counts as spam.
Not to be rude.

[Imperialistic]

Originally Posted by Lord Sephiroth

Please tell me someone else sees the irony in this.

No I don't, care to explain?

[adam]

Originally Posted by Lord Sephiroth

Please tell me someone else sees the irony in this.

I am also curious?

[Lord Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by adam

I am also curious?

I understand the point of what he did when he posted his "levels portfolio", that is to say, I get it, but I don't understand why neccesarily.

He posted a bunch of levels and said he doesn't want criticism on them because they're old levels that he's never revisiting and his style has changed, that's ok, I get that. But if that's the case, then why the **** did he post the ****ing levels?

The only reason he posted his levels was because he wanted someone to say "hey man those are great levels", but when everyone started picking out the problems with them he got super defensive and just kept blowing people off and saying he doesn't care they're old levels and all that crap.

The point of the irony is, he only wanted compliments on his levels, but when you really look at the ones he posted, all people had were criticisms, he himself was asking people to not tell him the truth.

[Imperialistic]

Originally Posted by Lord Sephiroth

I understand the point of what he did when he posted his "levels portfolio", that is to say, I get it, but I don't understand why neccesarily.

He posted a bunch of levels and said he doesn't want criticism on them because they're old levels that he's never revisiting and his style has changed, that's ok, I get that. But if that's the case, then why the **** did he post the ****ing levels?

The only reason he posted his levels was because he wanted someone to say "hey man those are great levels", but when everyone started picking out the problems with them he got super defensive and just kept blowing people off and saying he doesn't care they're old levels and all that crap.

The point of the irony is, he only wanted compliments on his levels, but when you really look at the ones he posted, all people had were criticisms, he himself was asking people to not tell him the truth.

Portfolio - the total holdings of the securities, commercial paper, etc., of a financial institution or private investor

First off, the portfolio wasn't made to either be criticized or really even be complemented. I never didn't allow negative comments to my work, if you were going to give me pointers it would be useless since those levels are fairly old, and I'm not working with them anymore.

Secondly, the portfolio was more of "What I'm Capable Of" type resource for other things that I don't really need to broadcast publicly throughout the community. If you didn't like it, there was always an option to exit the thread at any time. It really is immature of you to derail this thread with something that doesn't even have to do with the OP, if you didn't like it you could've PMed me like a big boy.

[adam]

Originally Posted by Imperialistic

Portfolio - the total holdings of the securities, commercial paper, etc., of a financial institution or private investor

First off, the portfolio wasn't made to either be criticized or really even be complemented. I never didn't allow negative comments to my work, if you were going to give me pointers it would be useless since those levels are fairly old, and I'm not working with them anymore.

Secondly, the portfolio was more of "What I'm Capable Of" type resource for other things that I don't really need to broadcast publicly throughout the community. If you didn't like it, there was always an option to exit the thread at any time. It really is immature of you to derail this thread with something that doesn't even have to do with the OP, if you didn't like it you could've PMed me like a big boy.

Just like I could pm you this.

You could also be the one to PM him like a big boy.

[Lord Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Imperialistic

Portfolio - the total holdings of the securities, commercial paper, etc., of a financial institution or private investor

First off, the portfolio wasn't made to either be criticized or really even be complemented. I never didn't allow negative comments to my work, if you were going to give me pointers it would be useless since those levels are fairly old, and I'm not working with them anymore.

Secondly, the portfolio was more of "What I'm Capable Of" type resource for other things that I don't really need to broadcast publicly throughout the community. If you didn't like it, there was always an option to exit the thread at any time. It really is immature of you to derail this thread with something that doesn't even have to do with the OP, if you didn't like it you could've PMed me like a big boy.

"These levels are not open for criticism"

I believe those are the right words i'm not gonna waste my time going back to check but yeah.

You're contradicting yourself all over the place. You say your levels that you posted are old, from a different style, and you don't level like that anymore, but then just now you're saying your portfolio is a "What you're capable of". How is this possibly what you're capable of if you don't level like that anymore?

As for the last few sentences, you just don't have any other arguements so you're going to take the "moral high ground" by calling me out on my thread-forum ethics, that's fine, those that know me know I don't really care about that sort of thing.

[DaBoss]

To but this back in the right direction.. Here is an update of the inside and outside...

-outside-



inside will be posted up soon

[adam]

Now look what you guys did, I'm getting sick of levels being crap if their not in the middle of a dense forest, or field, or basically wilderness.