Businesses on Era: The Life and Death of a Businessman

[cbk1994]

As promised, I'd like to start being more open about Era's development, including getting real player input. I've discussed this idea with both Exolia, the business admin, and Squirt, the manager, and I believe we've come up with a reasonable plan for businesses both before and after the reset.
To explain this system, I'm going to walk you through the life and death of an Erian businessman.

(there's a summary at the bottom!)

Originally Posted by The Life and Death of a Businessman

Our demonstrative character will be named John. John has been saving his money with his friends for the past several weeks in hopes of purchasing one of Era's several businesses. Just a few hours ago, a business went up for auction when the old owner failed to pay his expenses for the second week in a row. John has the money, and purchases the business.

Hence, John's store is born. John decides that he will first sell some ammo. He has chosen to produce handgun ammo and uzi ammo. With his remaining money, he purchases licenses for each of these items, as well as enough production machines to get him started.

He places the little money he has left in the safe, and calculates the payment rates at which he will be able to hire one employee and still be competitive. This will involve looking at what his competition pays their workers. He has decided to pay $5 per iron mined, $4 per lead mined, and $3 per each handgun ammo and uzi ammo stock. He specifies a maximum he will spend for each item for the week. He hires a miner. The miner knows from checking into the business info that he will be paid $4 per lead and $5 per iron. He goes out and mines enough to fill the weekly quota, then stocks. The money which the miner earns is "reserved" in the safe; in other words, it can't be withdrawn by the owner or anyone else.

The owner also has to factor in weekly costs, including utilities (steady rate), maintenance (depending on how many production machines he has), and taxes. Using these figures, he plans out a budget. When the week is over, the workers receive their pay directly in their ATM accounts. The owner can then set his weekly maximums for each item (including stocks), as well as what he will pay for the week. This can also be set the week before for convenience.

This week, John set his caps so that he spends $10,000 in employee expenses. He pays for his utilities, maintenance, and taxes. The total cost comes out to $15,000. He only makes $10,000. He is now at -$5,000. However, he had the foresight of putting extra money in the safe in case this happened. Because of this, he still has money in the safe, and is able to set new caps for the week. He also decides to start selling a gun. He purchases a license for producing and selling the M16, and sets a cap for the M16 at $6,000. The gun costs $2,500 to produce from gun parts, therefore two can be stocked this week, assuming he has the minerals needed. He sets the stock payment at $500. This $5,000 is not reserved as it does not go to an employee, but the $1000 used for stocking is reserved. It is up to the business owner to make sure that he doesn't go in the hole for part purchases.

When the week comes to a close, he has sold two M16s, both priced at $4,000, and made $3,000. He has made $14,000 from ammo. He has now made a profit of $17,000. After paying $10,000 for his employees, he pays the $5,000 for weekly expenses, and is left with $2,000 of personal profit. He can take this out and use it himself, or leave it in as insurance.

John decides to take the money out and reward himself. He hires another employee, and raises the caps. This week, he loses money, and now has negative money in the safe. However, because the money paid to employees is reserved money, the employees are paid what they were promised. His caps can't be set higher than he can afford to pay, therefore he cannot pay his employees this week. If he has some stock left over from last week and it is purchased, he can then use this money to set a cap and mine some minerals. He can also use personal money to add to the safe. John fails to pay his expenses the next week, and is shut down. The business is automatically put up for auction.

Also note that to prevent people with money from squatting on businesses and only paying weekly expenses, all businesses would have to receive at least a certain amount through sales each week.

The money amounts used in this example, as well as any items, are all rough estimates and are probably not even remotely accurate.

This plan would basically take the old, much-loved business system and fix its flaws. It would not affect businesses like Era Hotel which are not stocking businesses.

Summary:
We plan to create a business system which lets owners choose what to call their business, what items to produce, how many to produce, and what to charge for them. There would be money reserved in the safe which the owner can't touch to prevent employees from being scammed. Employees would automatically be paid at the end of the week. If businesses failed to earn at least a certain amount in a week, or failed to pay their expenses in a week, for two weeks straight, the business would automatically be taken and auctioned. This is very similar to the old system.

We plan to put this system in place on Era before the reset, but it may take a while to create.

I would love to hear comments and criticism before the system is built, and address any potential issues before they become a problem. Please let me know what you think.

[DuBsTeRmAn]

I want to say that i really like the idea of the new Shop System, I always wanted this on my own server but we never got to it.. I would love to see it here tho!

This way the system will be much better because of the pays and stuff..

I vote yes!

[Diesel_P2P]

Sounds good to me

[DarknessShadow]

tl;dr

^-^

[Andre2006]

I will invest money in different business, I will make a fortune!

[k_killar]

hope this isnt like noctorious's system were you buy the stuff and drag and drop on ur shop table................. didnt bother reading the wall of text

[DuBsTeRmAn]

Originally Posted by k_killar

hope this isnt like noctorious's system were you buy the stuff and drag and drop on ur shop table................. didnt bother reading the wall of text

Far as i know our system has changed :]

[swift]

Originally Posted by Andre2006

I will invest money in different business, I will make a fortune!

Why not actually make a loan system where a player can invest his money to a business to help it out, and the Owner can accept the loan or decline it. (Depends on if it's needed.) Over time the business pays back the player with a small interest rate so the player can earn money. There should also be a way a business can pay the full loan back if they have the money.

[Dnegel]

I like this!

Yes, yes and yes!

[Venom_Fish]

Why are the businesses re-auctioned or auctioned at all?
Couldn't you simply place "lots" or empty stores on the map, in which players will have to purchase for a certain amount? To begin this process.
Also; if the player feels as though he can't handle the business anymore, there should be a function that allows him to sell his business (paying his employees for that week), and cut his losses. (Sell it back to Bank or whatever it is, or AUCTION it him/herself).

Note: If he sells back to BANK, he of course is not returned what he initially paid for it. He should also be able to sell his licenses for an amount as well. Or sell them to other storeowners.

That sounds to me like a better system, it keeps money rotating in the economy and does not simply "delete" all of it.

As well as it takes away a certain degree of staff-involvement which can get messy, as we know. The GBA can take care of the auctioning and etc.
Its most-definitely more interactive.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Loans can get messy, what if a player doesn't pay back?
Its not like irl, where you can imprison them... that'll get things too complicated.

[cbk1994]

Like Wil said, loans wouldn't work out, there's no way for them to be enforced if the player doesn't have the money.

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

Why are the businesses re-auctioned or auctioned at all?
Couldn't you simply place "lots" or empty stores on the map, in which players will have to purchase for a certain amount? To begin this process.
Also; if the player feels as though he can't handle the business anymore, there should be a function that allows him to sell his business (paying his employees for that week), and cut his losses. (Sell it back to Bank or whatever it is, or AUCTION it him/herself).

This is a good idea, though if it's sold it might be better to keep everything in-tact (licenses are kept, etc).

Note: If he sells back to BANK, he of course is not returned what he initially paid for it. He should also be able to sell his licenses for an amount as well. Or sell them to other storeowners.

Not sure about this but maybe.

As well as it takes away a certain degree of staff-involvement which can get messy, as we know. The GBA can take care of the auctioning and etc.
Its most-definitely more interactive.

What do you mean? This new system would automatically auction the shops, staff wouldn't really be involved at all except determining the cost of licenses, what an item takes to produce, how much to tax, etc.

[cbk1994]

No forum account:

Originally Posted by cjclark

I disagree with the system due to the fact is most shops do not sell everyday.Gun Point is a perfect example they can stock 100 plus but few people will buy there unless they are close by.This will cause the business to fall because you have employees wanting to get payed yet everything is doing fine on stocks yet no money is being put into the safe to pay the employees.

[CharlieM]

I like the idea, its getting more realistic however something I notice.

4 per lead
3 per stock
automatically sets the price at 7 and if owner wants a profit its more. People will go to NPC shops unless you set NPC shops veerryy high, which would deter new players.

I know your numbers are theoretical but this is the problem I see

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by CharlieM

I like the idea, its getting more realistic however something I notice.

4 per lead
3 per stock
automatically sets the price at 7 and if owner wants a profit its more. People will go to NPC shops unless you set NPC shops veerryy high, which would deter new players.

I know your numbers are theoretical but this is the problem I see

It's the same now. If Ammo Mart pays its workers $2 per stock and $3 per iron, and it takes 1 iron to make something, they have to sell for at least $6 to make any kind of profit. The only difference is that AM and GP can't set their own prices.

[fowlplay4]

There's no mention of protection fees, and this sounds like quite the project but good luck.

[xnervNATx]

kinda dislike this idea.

[salesman]

So what's your plan to make this system not fail like the last time it was tried?

Giving players complete control over prices is a big mistake. If I recall correctly, the "small biz" system that we had once before allowed everyone to buy the same licenses, and eventually everyone sold the same things. Inevitably, owners kept trying to sell them for lower and lower than their competition. Eventually some idiot sold the items for a price which caused him to actually lose money, released a ****-load of guns for that price, and then ruined it for everyone else. The items were mass-released, under-priced, and now impossible for other businesses to sell.

Unless guns can break, or you keep guns to NPC shops, this system will never work out in the long-run. (or everyone will just end up selling ammo, and it will become a popularity contest to see who gets the customers)

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by salesman

So what's your plan to make this system not fail like the last time it was tried?

Giving players complete control over prices is a big mistake. If I recall correctly, the "small biz" system that we had once before allowed everyone to buy the same licenses, and eventually everyone sold the same things. Inevitably, owners kept trying to sell them for lower and lower than their competition. Eventually some idiot sold the items for a price which caused him to actually lose money, released a ****-load of guns for that price, and then ruined it for everyone else. The items were mass-released, under-priced, and now impossible for other businesses to sell.

Unless guns can break, or you keep guns to NPC shops, this system will never work out in the long-run. (or everyone will just end up selling ammo, and it will become a popularity contest to see who gets the customers)

You bring up a good point. Someone could set the price to $1 and sell a bunch, but they would still have to have that many stocked, which would cost tons of money depending on the gun. Maybe it would be necessary to set a maximum number of each item that can be sold per week? I think something like the pawn shop would be the best way to take guns out of the economy, though, and that would prevent too many guns from being spawned.

To prevent prices from going too high through some kind of monopoly system, NPC shops would be "smart" and adjust their prices to set a maximum limit for each gun.

[Tim_Rocks]

Originally Posted by salesman

Unless guns can break

Interesting thought Sales, I agree with you on that. Maybe guns should break, and all you really have to do is buy replacement parts. Maybe the bizs could sell the replacement parts. (<--- I think this might be a bad idea)

List of random ideas:

1. Make limits on how low or high the gun can be sold for, for the low price the minimum would be what ever the gun/ammunition costs to make it.

2. If there is going to be certain licenses that can be purchased, only allow up to 2 bizs to purchase this license.

3. Ammunition/Gun Licenses, a list of option to choose what type of weapons you could sell. Uzi Ammo, available guns to choose from that use uzi ammo can be sold at this store.

4. Just a nice feature (sort of lol) when one of these bizs are completely out of stock the biz auto closes. (not sure about that one)

5. Possibly add every single gun that can be sold at these shops to the pawn shop, which would create the minimum low price.

6. Possibly turn your biz into a food shop? is that allowed?

1 + 5 are pretty much the same =P

Well this is my random list of possible ideas that could be incorporated into this biz system. (my bad if I said one already mentioned )

[salesman]

Originally Posted by Tim_Rocks

Interesting thought Sales, I agree with you on that. Maybe guns should break

I'm not saying I agree that guns should break. I'm totally against anything that might prevent actual game-play and requires players to work more than they already do. I'm saying that if you sell durable items (or items that last forever) in shops where players have control over the pricing, the shop will NOT last. Eventually, the shops will not be able to sell the guns due to either mass-release or price drops.

[Tim_Rocks]

Originally Posted by salesman

I'm totally against anything that might prevent actual game-play and requires players to work more than they already do.

Well maybe the guns shouldn't break and be un-usable until they're fixed, they probably should just add more time to your freeze and maybe have damage rate lowered a little bit. Then once the player pays for the gun to be repaired it goes back to normal again. You could also have a % like knives have on when the gun is about to break, and you can have it repaired for cheaper it you repair it before it actually breaks.

[papajchris]

Sounds like a cool idea. PLEASE make sure that there are no bugs. Actually upload the script onto Era dev or something and allow people to mess around with the system and if they find a bug give them like 10k or something on the real server. I don't know, i just don't want that glitch back like last time where people could buy a business and not lose any money or even have the money on them.

Like someone said earlier, the locations of these businesses need to be taken into account. Prime real estate should have higher expenses compared to businesses in more worse of a location. Also, there should be a limit on how many licenses there are per a item, and these licenses SHOULD expire after 30 days or so and be sold in an automated auction, so that one business can't keep all the good licenses.

[swift]

Allow players to make a multi-kind of biz, where he can be successful, make a ton of profits, then add on to his store, like he can add another department and sell another product like food or explosives.

[Frankie]

It sounds good, but I hope it's not one of those ideas where it sounds good in writing but fails when it's made.

I strongly disagree with letting players have control over businesses, but that's mainly because of bad experiences with player-owned businesses in the past.

[Tim_Rocks]

Originally Posted by swift

Allow players to make a multi-kind of biz, where he can be successful, make a ton of profits, then add on to his store, like he can add another department and sell another product like food or explosives.

sounds like a cool idea, and maybe when you decide to add this new department there could be a script that updates all the levels your biz has, and it gets bigger to allow more space for new items.

[swift]

Also, why not make new businesses?

Food is old and it's never gonna boom like it use to. Ammo shops will be w/e unless some cool guns are added, and pyro tech is always closed.

Give radio stations a purpose instead of just trying to get random people come and listen to music that shuts off if you walk around and hear other sounds.

Make farming a job. Would be hella fun, and players can eat what they make or sell it, and make things factor how well you farm, like strength levels for easier tool use, different kind of tools, or machines.

Also a cool feature would be if people could purchase the soda vending machines, they have to stock them and keep them and blah blah.

House building? They just added the wood cutting system. Would be pretty neat if you could build a house from the logs you chopped down.

Fishing? Seems like a job that shoulda been added to Era along time ago.

Fix Era news.

Add a cell phone biz and you pay monthly like a bill that is taken auto-matically out of your ATM, you can leave people messages like texts (an improved version of the mail system), and you can call people and set up your own number, take pics/screen shots and send them.

add that egg-roll shack that Rave wanted to do. I'm pretty sure levels, graphics, scripts, ganis and everything were made and ready for upload but they just decided not to at the last minute?

Trying to blurt out as many ideas that could be discussed, I know alot of these ideas would have problems or something that would be unfair but just keeping the discussion up.

[Andre2006]

Just give us all the items already we do not want to work AT ALL.

[MontyPython]

Originally Posted by Andre2006

Just give us all the items already we do not want to work AT ALL.

Shut the **** up.


Secondly:

John's a twat. If he dropped like 30 pounds and shaved his god-awful goatee, maybe I could take him seriously.

As it stands...

[Andre2006]

Originally Posted by MontyPython

Shut the **** up.


Secondly:

John's a twat. If he dropped like 30 pounds and shaved his god-awful goatee, maybe I could take him seriously.

As it stands...

Who is John

[Venom_Fish]

Originally Posted by Tim_Rocks

Well maybe the guns shouldn't break and be un-usable until they're fixed, they probably should just add more time to your freeze and maybe have damage rate lowered a little bit. Then once the player pays for the gun to be repaired it goes back to normal again. You could also have a % like knives have on when the gun is about to break, and you can have it repaired for cheaper it you repair it before it actually breaks.

Your input is not a solution to the problem introduced. The items will still be mass-produced, even if you're buying repairs for them, you're still NOT buying the item. Leaving us with the problem; still. o.O?

I'd say, guns are the most difficult to deal with and there really isn't a feasible way to give player-shops control of them. May sound abit drastic, but its the simplest method, do-away with weapons being sold in these businesses.

Only depletable items, ex. Ammo, Cappucinos, Food, and perhaps go with what Hector stated, add newer products that are DEPLETABLE.

As for guns, let the Pawn-Shop ordeal control that entire aspect.
Do not allow the Pawn-Shops to release an infinite amount of every item.
Give them a limit, and as an gun is "Pawned" back to the shop, put it on the shelf. So the guns are basically rotating throughout the economy, giving every item a limit, as well as a minimum price.

Of course if there's a limit on every weapon, you'll have to release a vast majority of them, but thats not a problem. Era has more than enough.

As well as, players don't have to worry about WORKING to repair guns and crap, we already worry about ammunition. Lets not go overboard and make whats accepted; unacceptable.

[TheJames]

Businesses on a game won't work at all. You see, i'm in business management and I have somewhat knowledge on this.

Reasons:
-Items run out of their "new" feel. There will be about 20 players who actually purchase an item, and then it is dispersed throughout the community by sales to other players. One this happens, the business owner is left with extra stock, and employees to pay but he isnt selling anything. The only thing that will keep sales, is ammo.

-If we allow players to set prices, they will set prices to redicilous amounts for their own common wealth. But then again will set low for friends. There needs to be a guideline for this such as no less then $3,000 no more then $6,000 on a weapon. This would keep it somewhat fair.

-Not to mention it causes 1 player to get rich quick. All the players working hard to feed their money to 1 player. I say that the money isnt accessible to the owner, and staff pay the owner a percentage of the safe, rest is payed to taxes.

[Venom_Fish]

I wish you'd read my post, the Pawn-Shop is NPC-Ran. Thats where I suggest guns, and other more "permanent" items should be sold. To prevent all you just explained, and to simplify things. Depletable items, like Ammunition, Cappucinos, Sewer Elixir, and so on and so forth, can be marketed by players... seeing as there will always be a demand for them.

[fowlplay4]

Originally Posted by TheJames

Businesses on a game won't work at all. You see, i'm in business management and I have somewhat knowledge on this.

lol.

[Dragonosteel]

Can you decrease the price you can sell minerals at the NPC shop for so you profit more for working for a good business then mining by yourself?

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Dragonosteel

Can you decrease the price you can sell minerals at the NPC shop for so you profit more for working for a good business then mining by yourself?

Nope. Instead, businesses will have to figure out that they will have to pay more if they want workers. We've given all businesses the option of setting their prices now so that they can make any changes as necessary.

[Tim_Rocks]

Not sure if this problem can even be solved, but usually what I've noticed when a new business comes out and they're selling new guns, they stock it and buy it just for themselves.. Then they will will hold on to them and try and make a lot more money off the gun.

Not sure what could be done to prevent this.. Maybe block accounts from buying their own products, and after a certain period of time after no one has purchased the item it can then be bought.

Also make I do not think owners should have the power to be able to close their shops.. Not really needed, and like i said before they should automatically close if no items are stocked.

Originally Posted by Tim_Rocks

(<--- I think this might be a bad idea)

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

As well as, players don't have to worry about WORKING to repair guns and crap, we already worry about ammunition. Lets not go overboard and make whats accepted; unacceptable.

Yes i know, I was just throwing out ideas.. not a very good one, just a thought. I was actually thinking it might even be cool to buy replacement parts to modify your gun to maybe shoot faster, or less freeze; These items would be able to break and your gun would be back to normal. To me that sounds a little better.

[Venom_Fish]

That sounds good, but it'd be pretty messy in-game. As well as complicated to put what gun with what parts and what effects and so on.

As well as, GUNS being the products they buy for themselves. If they can't sell guns, that problem is solved as well. Players selling guns will bringforth more than a few problems.
Thats the largest flaw in this plan.

[Tim_Rocks]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

That sounds good, but it'd be pretty messy in-game. As well as complicated to put what gun with what parts and what effects and so on.

Well I don't think it would be too messy, I was thinking that these add-ons would be just like enabling yourself to use an axe. Then over time this add-on would break down just like a knife would.

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

As for guns, let the Pawn-Shop ordeal control that entire aspect.
Do not allow the Pawn-Shops to release an infinite amount of every item.
Give them a limit, and as an gun is "Pawned" back to the shop, put it on the shelf. So the guns are basically rotating throughout the economy, giving every item a limit, as well as a minimum price.

I like that idea, although here's a different way it could be done. Instead just make it so each license has a certain limit of guns that can be produced, and when ever a gun is purchased the limit goes down. And if this gun is sold back to the pawn shop the limit goes back up. Then as the more guns are bought, the higher the the Pawn-Shop will offer. The rotating affect still occurs.

sound good, or what could be done to make it better?

[Venom_Fish]

Well, I originally was going to suggest add-ons in my post with the whole pawn-shop idea. But any gun-altering add-ons would be a disaster without a doubt. Hence why I withdrew that, but if you're speaking of add-ons not impacting gun statistics, I'm all for that.
Ex. An add-on that makes the gun lighter, able to use another primary weapon with it etc etc.

Then again, all this would take alot of time and is it really "necessary" for such trivial improvements?

As for the Pawn-Shop twist you added; I like alot. Still enables players to sell weapon as well as limits the amount of weapons produced, and involves the pawn-shop to initiate the rotation. Since Era has 100+ items, licenses shouldn't be a problem even if it is limited. Players can strategize as t what items/weapons are in-demand and purchase licenses for them, this would actually make businesses more applicable to Era as well as add a "realistic feel" to them.

[cbk1994]

I'm not so sure about the limiting of licenses or the limiting of the number of guns that can be produced. I think it would be better to have a "smart" price system for parts used to make guns. The more "Super Metal Handle"s that are used, the more the stock depletes, and the more the price rises. Eventually it would go back down to a base price each week or so (or maybe it could just be based on current demand).

Also, no forum account:

Originally Posted by Chorchizcool

I have come to two suggestions to the business system.

1) The Pawn Shop coincide with the release of the player run shops. With that comes the security of knowing that the licenses sold that allows the players to sell guns, will not be abused to make 1-2 guns for friends to buy and sell for a large price after the shop fails.

The NPC shop will already have a set price on which the player shops will have to sell below to make their gun the most sought after. It will in turn make the gun already readily available that way if a player decides to sell MS's at his shop he wont be able to make two and buy them for himself and his friend and sell them for a rediculous amount of money because they are able to be bought at the NPC for 10-20k more than he bought them for.

in remedy of the Player selling his guns for one dollar and all of a sudden there is 20 MS' on the server have a limit on how low a gun can sell for. I.E. John buys a shop and Stocks Two MS'. He decides that **** his shop he wants to ditch it, He sets the price of Both MS's to one dollar and buys them both, therefore not paying the 500k they were selling for in the NPC shop. Therefore negating the Pawn Shop totally. You can fix that situation by setting a minimun SALE price, where you cannot sell it for 10-20 less than what the Pawn Shop is selling them for.

Setting a Maximum Sale Price (The Pawn Shop) and a minimum sale price (within the Player Business') will kill two birds with one stone. Releasing the Pawn Shop and the new Business system at the same time will automatically balance the problems of pricing issues with the new Business System, and allow the new business system to flourish without a major risk of failure.

It may take longer to develop both of them but to release both of them at the same time, that is the key to being able to swipe both destroyers of Era's economy off the table at once. Thank you for your time and have a good night

And my response to that:

Originally Posted by Chorchizcool

He decides that **** his shop he wants to ditch it, He sets the price of Both MS's to one dollar and buys them both, therefore not paying the 500k they were selling for in the NPC shop.

Keep in mind that they would still pay the 500k in stocking the gun. The gun would be paid for either way, but the shop only gets the money back they used to stock the gun if someone buys it for more than the amount they used to stock it.