New Manager

[GarethOmni]

So far Era still hasnt retained it's old glory for long, Koth helped bring that out for a while but it died down.
I look forward to new management and the changes that may follow.

[Spikedude]

Deo, we've had our differences. You did a good job all in all.

Sales! Awesome buddy! You'll do great.

[PowerProNL]

You Don't know me but I going to miss you you made Era (

[Crow]

Originally Posted by PowerProNL

you made Era (

Not.

[Dark_Zeratul101]

Originally Posted by Exhausted

That type of personality tends to lead to corruption, poor player relation services, and many other troubles that plague servers.

I want to digress on this "MEAN PEOPLE ARE BAD MANAGERS" BS. The worst managers I've known have been one of the nicest. Take Jesse for example, he was the nicest manager on Valikorlia but he was PUBLIC ENEMY NUMBER ONE. Why? Because he hired his friends as staff and everything who went around and kept screwing everything up.

Whenever the matter of staff problems came to hand, Jesse either ignored it, made petty justifications (THE STAFF ARE DOING GOOD YOU JUST HAVE A GRUDGE AND VENDETTA AGAINST THEM BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH), or outright pretended to be afk.

I want to see an a-hole in charge, from my point of experience, they tend to get things DONE as long as they aren't being an idiot. (By the way, Smu doesn't count as an a-hole, he's more of a douche.)

[Pelikano]

Originally Posted by Dark_Zeratul101

I want to digress on this "MEAN PEOPLE ARE BAD MANAGERS" BS. The worst managers I've known have been one of the nicest. Take Jesse for example, he was the nicest manager on Valikorlia but he was PUBLIC ENEMY NUMBER ONE. Why? Because he hired his friends as staff and everything who went around and kept screwing everything up.

Whenever the matter of staff problems came to hand, Jesse either ignored it, made petty justifications (THE STAFF ARE DOING GOOD YOU JUST HAVE A GRUDGE AND VENDETTA AGAINST THEM BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH), or outright pretended to be afk.

I want to see an a-hole in charge, from my point of experience, they tend to get things DONE as long as they aren't being an idiot. (By the way, Smu doesn't count as an a-hole, he's more of a douche.)

Let's make me Manager then, I am mean to everyone ANYWHERE, srsly.

[Dark_Zeratul101]

No.

[Scary_Sock]

I see how Raven is explaining it, and I think he is right.

But there are some points where a person can be nice and still do a good job. Take YY as an example. He was an awesome ETA, and was nice. The only way for people like YY to act like an a-hole/douche is if someone is just annoying,complaining (The type where the person just acts annoying on purpose), etc...

The point is, your Dev/Player-side skills cannot be judged all the time by that person's personality, even if it is most of the time.

[MontyPython]

It's not so much an issue of whether they're mean or nice, it's more their motives.

If they're unbiased, and motivated to help the server, they'll make the right decisions about the staff team and the server in general. That means not hiring talentless friends just because they're friends and making decisions based on what you think/know is in the best interest of the server rather than basing it off of the public's approval.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard from various staff team members: "I can't do that, then players will whine and *****." or "I did it, but then everyone cried so I switched it back."

Seriously? You're going to **** over the server's gameplay balance and other elements just so players won't have to go out and buy a box of kleenexes?

[Sinkler]

Originally Posted by Dark_Zeratul101

I want to digress on this "MEAN PEOPLE ARE BAD MANAGERS" BS. The worst managers I've known have been one of the nicest. Take Jesse for example, he was the nicest manager on Valikorlia but he was PUBLIC ENEMY NUMBER ONE. Why? Because he hired his friends as staff and everything who went around and kept screwing everything up.

Whenever the matter of staff problems came to hand, Jesse either ignored it, made petty justifications (THE STAFF ARE DOING GOOD YOU JUST HAVE A GRUDGE AND VENDETTA AGAINST THEM BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH), or outright pretended to be afk.

I want to see an a-hole in charge, from my point of experience, they tend to get things DONE as long as they aren't being an idiot. (By the way, Smu doesn't count as an a-hole, he's more of a douche.)

Explain Clash then.

[Dark_Zeratul101]

It's very simple. Clash kept promising that the VERY ambitious New Valikorlia project would eventually be finished. Every time the deadline would be met, he would always delay and delay it. The players got sick of it and most of them left.

[Sinkler]

Originally Posted by Dark_Zeratul101

It's very simple. Clash kept promising that the VERY ambitious New Valikorlia project would eventually be finished. Every time the deadline would be met, he would always delay and delay it. The players got sick of it and most of them left.

Clash was also a very rude/mean manager but clearly was not able to get New Valikorlia up. Your belief that any mean manager can get things done is countered by the argument of Clash.

[papajchris]

Originally Posted by Dark_Zeratul101

I want to digress on this "MEAN PEOPLE ARE BAD MANAGERS" BS. The worst managers I've known have been one of the nicest. Take Jesse for example, he was the nicest manager on Valikorlia but he was PUBLIC ENEMY NUMBER ONE. Why? Because he hired his friends as staff and everything who went around and kept screwing everything up.

Whenever the matter of staff problems came to hand, Jesse either ignored it, made petty justifications (THE STAFF ARE DOING GOOD YOU JUST HAVE A GRUDGE AND VENDETTA AGAINST THEM BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH), or outright pretended to be afk.

I want to see an a-hole in charge, from my point of experience, they tend to get things DONE as long as they aren't being an idiot. (By the way, Smu doesn't count as an a-hole, he's more of a douche.)

your reference to Jesse being a bad manager is because of corruption, not because of how nice or mean he was.

[Dark_Zeratul101]

Originally Posted by Sinkler

Clash was also a very rude/mean manager but clearly was not able to get New Valikorlia up. Your belief that any mean manager can get things done is countered by the argument of Clash.

I didn't say ANY mean manager can get things done. I was just pointing out a contrast to explain that just because a manager is mean doesn't mean it's a downfall.

your reference to Jesse being a bad manager is because of corruption, not because of how nice or mean he was.

I was using Jesse as an example because people think that "being nice" is a requirement to being a good manager. You see, the absolute sole reason he was corrupt is because he was too nice and pampered his staff no matter how awful they were. It's a case of "indirect corruption".

[Sinkler]

Originally Posted by Dark_Zeratul101

I didn't say ANY mean manager can get things done. I was just pointing out a contrast to explain that just because a manager is mean doesn't mean it's a downfall.


I was using Jesse as an example because people think that "being nice" is a requirement to being a good manager. You see, the absolute sole reason he was corrupt is because he was too nice and pampered his staff no matter how awful they were. It's a case of "indirect corruption".

But see in Jesse's case, it had nothing to do really with him being nice. He turned a blind eye to corrupt. I am sure being nice allowed it to continue for so long, but I wouldn't sight that as a major attribute for his lack of managing skills.

I understand what point you're trying to get across, but being nice and mean has little to do with how you help the server. I am not denying that it has any influence on the manager, but it's based solely in my opinion if the manager is doing his job as well as keeping staff in line.

[Vman13x]

Originally Posted by RogueShatterblade

If it's too much of a demand for you, Sales, i'll come back and take over.
I'll be around.

Oh **** no.

I think sales will do a great job, congrats

BRING BACK OLD KOTH FTW!!!! WHOSE WITH ME!

Good luck in life deo.

[Dark_Zeratul101]

Originally Posted by Sinkler

But see in Jesse's case, it had nothing to do really with him being nice. He turned a blind eye to corrupt. I am sure being nice allowed it to continue for so long, but I wouldn't sight that as a major attribute for his lack of managing skills.

His corruption stems from his extreme empathy for his staff/friends. I've actually met him a while ago and when I brought up the subject of Valikorlia to him, he ranted about how all the players are evil and cruel and etc. etc etc. I truly believe he is innocent, but dumb and biased as bricks.

I understand what point you're trying to get across, but being nice and mean has little to do with how you help the server. I am not denying that it has any influence on the manager, but it's based solely in my opinion if the manager is doing his job as well as keeping staff in line.

I know, I just wanted to explain to Exhausted about my point.

[Vman13x]

I have no idea who you guys are talking about lol. Silly gooses.

[Sinkler]

Originally Posted by Vman13x

I have no idea who you guys are talking about lol. Silly gooses.

Valikorlia shtuff.

[RogueShatterblade]

Originally Posted by Vman13x

Oh **** no.

BRING BACK OLD KOTH FTW!!!! WHOSE WITH ME!

I, uh... I started that. lol

[DuBsTeRmAn]

Originally Posted by Pelikano

Let's make me Manager then, I am mean to everyone ANYWHERE, srsly.

He isn't lieng :]

[Scary_Sock]

Originally Posted by Sinkler

Valikorlia shtuff.

Lol. Keep the conversation on-topic please?

[Sinkler]

Originally Posted by Scary_Sock

Lol. Keep the conversation on-topic please?

We were using Valikorlian Managers to what we think make good managers. That's ON-TOPIC.

[Scary_Sock]

Originally Posted by Sinkler

We were using Valikorlian Managers to what we think make good managers. That's ON-TOPIC.

But the way you said "Valikoria stuff" made it seem like that.

:o.

Well, continue then.

[DazJenova]

To be a good manager you need to have the motivation to get things done with the staff team you have, literally get on their cases about getting things done and constantly check on the progress. Provide the correct rights needed to do the job to that staff member and hire only people who have the talent to do the job. Not many people have this ability because you are doing it out of your own free time and not being paid to get a server developed, hence how staff tend to get lazy on projects because they just can't be bothered to finish it in time or work on it slow because they either have a life outside of graal or just enjoy being a staff member for the power.

Doesen't matter if the manager is mean or nice, it matters how they handle the situations that arrise and take authority.

[Vman13x]

Well said daz.

[Venom_Fish]

Late, but I think Ocelot would do a better job than Sales.
Numerous reasons, one and the largest is that Sales has lost all hope in this Era, he thinks its unable to be repaired therefore he'll waste countless hours building a new one while the state of this one worsens.

While the success rate of his "new" is lower than Paris' Hilton's underwear, he'll still go through with it, and when the time comes to show the fruits of his labors, rather than people deciding if they like it or not, he'll force it on them because understandably, he doesn't like his work going in vein. Even if he is forewarned it might or would.

While Ocelot, speaking out of speculation here, would most likely repair this Era, which is an easier and more doable task. Seeing as this Era isn't as lost a cause as Sales thinks.
The 100 Players a day log on everyday, obviously this Era is doing something right. They don't log on to sit and wait for the new "Savior" being made on the Dev Server.

Don't get me wrong though, two evils. I'd choose the lesser of the Evils, seeing as Ocelot comes jam-packed with his problems. Sales' just outweigh his.

[Shadow5596321]

I demand a chart or something showing us Ocelot's problems and Sales' problems.

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

While Ocelot, speaking out of speculation here, would most likely repair this Era, which is an easier and more doable task.

I can already tell you're not very experienced in development. It's always easier to rebuild then repair if you know what you're aiming for, and have a solid foundation to go from.

[Venom_Fish]

I'm not development-stupid if that is where you're getting at. It always depends on the severity of the problem. If a car gets a scratch, I doubt its easier to change that entire section, rather than just having the body shop "repair" the location of the scratch.
Now if a car had several severe issues and is a burdon, it'd be easier to buy a new car rather than fix that one.

Same with Era, Era has problems, but isn't at the point where it'd be easier to make a new Era, rather than repair this one. This is what separates the constructors, from the conductors. Developers will often do unnecessary, insignificant and often mundane things if left to work based on their will. Most of you need people to tell you what to do, and how it all fits together.

This is why I'd prefer my manager either be a conductor, or both a constructor and a conductor. Never just a constructor, the ability to assess a situation, finding the problem and formulating the most efficient way of amending the matter. Whether he amends it himself, or directs a "constructor" to do so.

Sales is a constructor
Ocelot is a conductor

Neither is both.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

I think Ocelot would do a better job than Sales.

I just lost all hope in you; you're even more ignorant than I thought.

[Sinkler]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

I'm not development-stupid if that is where you're getting at. It always depends on the severity of the problem. If a car gets a scratch, I doubt its easier to change that entire section, rather than just having the body shop "repair" the location of the scratch.
Now if a car had several severe issues and is a burdon, it'd be easier to buy a new car rather than fix that one.

Same with Era, Era has problems, but isn't at the point where it'd be easier to make a new Era, rather than repair this one. This is what separates the constructors, from the conductors. Developers will often do unnecessary, insignificant and often mundane things if left to work based on their will. Most of you need people to tell you what to do, and how it all fits together.

This is why I'd prefer my manager either be a conductor, or both a constructor and a conductor. Never just a constructor, the ability to assess a situation, finding the problem and formulating the most efficient way of amending the matter. Whether he amends it himself, or directs a "constructor" to do so.

Sales is a constructor
Ocelot is a conductor

Neither is both.

Are you actually praising Ocelot? Or am I just imagining that?

[Crow]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

Same with Era, Era has problems, but isn't at the point where it'd be easier to make a new Era, rather than repair this one.

Yes it is. I neither know nor do I care how Era currently looks, but even when I still worked there, most of the code was in an unfixable way. I literally spent hours digging through it finding out where something is located just to fix a minor bug. Building up organisation out of this mess is almost impossible, so doing that from scratch is a way easier task which is not as time consuming.

[Frankie]

Andy did a really nice job rescripting a lot of Era's major codes, but Graal NATs have huge egos. they don't like using code that wasn't designed by them. in the end it winds up wasting time, but what can you do? everything Andy did on Era Dev was thrown away. it's a shame.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Frankie

Andy did a really nice job rescripting a lot of Era's major codes, but Graal NATs have huge egos. they don't like using code that wasn't designed by them. in the end it winds up wasting time, but what can you do? everything Andy did on Era Dev was thrown away. it's a shame.

Not exactly. You're speaking without knowing exactly what "good code" is, I think. Andy's code worked fine, and was somewhat organized, but it was difficult to build on to, and we wanted to make a lot of changes to the way systems work. We're now way past what Andy did anyway on the former Dev server.

[Venom_Fish]

I just lost all hope in you; you're even more ignorant than I thought.

Oh, the horror because that means so much to me.

Are you actually praising Ocelot? Or am I just imagining that?

You respond like a true 12 year old, so I wouldn't be surprised if your imagination was as abundant.
Anyway, no Jr. I literally just explained the types of personality Ocelot and Sales have. I said for Management, I'd prefer a conductor over a constructor.
Ocelot has the conductive personality/ideals, and Sales has the constructive.

I never said being a Conductor is always better than being a Constructor.

Graal NATs have huge egos. they don't like using code that wasn't designed by them. in the end it winds up wasting time

To Crow: A Constructor.
Let see the pros and cons of "building a new server" rather than fixing this one, and when I said fixing, I didn't mean entirely on Scripts. (Which is what you all seem to be jabbering about. If the Dev Server is just renewed scripts, what a goddamn disappointment.) Era has many conductive problems as well.
If you try to bypass fixing them by creating newer forms. You'd most likely face problems which the original method prevented / didn't have.

New Server
Time: Astronomical (Speculative)
Chance of Success: Unknown
Players #: Unknown

Fixing This Server
Time: (With the current scripting power), I'd give it less than a month and a half (script-wise), and the rest can be mapped/worked out while thats going on, Era has many conductive-problems as well. Ex. Gangs, Businesses, Events, etc.
Player #: Can't do anything but increase.

[BlueMelon]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

Oh, the horror because that means so much to me.



You respond like a true 12 year old, so I wouldn't be surprised if your imagination was as abundant.
Anyway, no Jr. I literally just explained the types of personality Ocelot and Sales have. I said for Management, I'd prefer a conductor over a constructor.
Ocelot has the conductive personality/ideals, and Sales has the constructive.

I never said being a Conductor is always better than being a Constructor.



To Crow: A Constructor.
Let see the pros and cons of "building a new server" rather than fixing this one, and when I said fixing, I didn't mean entirely on Scripts. (Which is what you all seem to be jabbering about. If the Dev Server is just renewed scripts, what a goddamn disappointment.) Era has many conductive problems as well.
If you try to bypass fixing them by creating newer forms. You'd most likely face problems which the original method prevented / didn't have.

New Server
Time: Astronomical (Speculative)
Chance of Success: Unknown
Players #: Unknown

Fixing This Server
Time: (With the current scripting power), I'd give it less than a month and a half (script-wise), and the rest can be mapped/worked out while thats going on, Era has many conductive-problems as well. Ex. Gangs, Businesses, Events, etc.
Player #: Can't do anything but increase.

You should make a server...

[Sinkler]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

You respond like a true 12 year old, so I wouldn't be surprised if your imagination was as abundant.
Anyway, no Jr. I literally just explained the types of personality Ocelot and Sales have. I said for Management, I'd prefer a conductor over a constructor.
Ocelot has the conductive personality/ideals, and Sales has the constructive.

I never said being a Conductor is always better than being a Constructor.

You're supporting someone who:
1) Allowed corruption throughout his staff team.
2) Was always drunk on RC and wasn't able to even remotely make a logical decision.
3) Rude to people and harassed people.

He's not a "conductor" according to your standards.

Also, way to make a personal attack!

[Rave_J]

Ok sorry but Ocelot would be a bad choice. When Ocelot got manager he took Pyro Tech from me and also ban me for not telling him Jenn Myspace YY and TSAdmin and globals can bounce for that. Sales might not do what normal managers do but face it look at the events he come out with ect. U know hes working on a complete different Era like his ideas will come real. If i was Sales and a manager too i wouldnt answer every single pms. Look at Rick never on the server but always develop it ect.

[Scary_Sock]

Originally Posted by Rave_J

Ok sorry but Ocelot would be a bad choice. When Ocelot got manager he took Pyro Tech from me and also ban me for not telling him Jenn Myspace YY and TSAdmin and globals can bounce for that. Sales might not do what normal managers do but face it look at the events he come out with ect. U know hes working on a complete different Era like his ideas will come real. If i was Sales and a manager too i wouldnt answer every single pms. Look at Rick never on the server but always develop it ect.

First, It sounds like you only hate Ocelot because he took a business from you. It was most likely a good reason. I would not imagine a manager doing that for no reason.

Second, Ocelot banning you because you did not tell him a myspace? You must be making this up. I really don't think ANY manager would do it, even if the server would be under construction. (Maybe)