Classic Card Game

[BlackSolider]

I assume if its "average deck levels" he's just averaging the level of all your cards. So for me, for instance, it'd be 30 level 0 cards and 1 level 1 card for an average level of 0.0322, if my calculations are correct. Obviously that doesn't even compare to squirts deck at full power.

[Shadow87]

Originally Posted by DarkCloud_PK

I'm running tests on how to rate peoples decks before blindly implementing something.

Right now I'm doing average deck levels and seeing the average levels of peoples decks online.
So far Squirt is the highest with an average level of 0.58

Should have been done before the game was released.

Do you ever see a game being released without being fully tested? (besides graal, that's why its ****ty)

[maximus_asinus]

Help, everytime I open my Card Manager or Album, it instantly closes a second later.

[BlackSolider]

@ max

Not sure about that one. Might want to check with DC.

@ tats

When mystic and I did the testing (others helped too but not as much,) we had access to about 60 cards, ranging from level 0 to level 4. So when the game got released and everyone had the horrible decks they started with (granted theres good reasoning behind it) I was quite surprised since I wasn't told anything. I was also surprised how the boosters were set up as they were, which I don't agree with. Other games have boosters that guarantee you some good cards, while this one leaves it completely random. It makes collecting cards nearly impossible, and certainly can (and did) kill competitiveness.

The game itself was tested thoroughly, and so far its been mostly free of problems (turn skipping a few times,) but I don't think the game was tested much (or at all) as far as how things would turn out with the starter decks + a few boosters. I for one am not pleased with the results.

Thats what I know, at least. Either we didn't test the 'first week' scenario out enough, or we just didn't foresee the consequences that plague us now.

[MysticX2X]

Yeah, the level 0 idea wasn't all that great...

[Shadow87]

Basically a rookie mistake, I think the whole developmental team/GC LATs need a business adviser. Every time its just, hey we finally finished this lets just go and release it without really thinking about what will happen when we do it. They only ever put little thought into it and it shows. And glad, you made a very good point, i wasn't even thinking about collecting, they completely ruined that for anyone who wants to collect, there's no fun in it with this game. It fun to play when everyone has the same level cards, and thats it. There is nothing else to it. But its the same thing with everything, nothing that has been released, said, done whatever, none of it has done anything good for the server, and that is the business side of it. Tell me I don't know what i'm talking about all you haters out there, but I do, and I laugh every time they do something stupid and then tell me I hate the server.

[BlackSolider]

The "all level 0 starter deck" was put in place, according to DC, so that people couldn't grab all the good cards (lvl 1 and 2 most likely) from a "decent starter deck" and transfer them all to one account.

Obviously there would be some ways to minimize this, but I doubt we could completely kill it without making it impossible to trade/transfer cards, which would be a bummer.

[MysticX2X]

That would be pretty stupid anyways.

[EclipsedAngel]

This card game is a murderer.

[MysticX2X]

Opened my second card 25 point pack and get only 2 dumb level cards.

[BlackSolider]

Better than what some of us got.

[MysticX2X]

wasted 60 points on boosters in total and got only 3 cards worth something though...

[maximus_asinus]

Someone should start a becket or something so there is an accurate price or worth for each card. To prevent scamming.

Also where did DC go? He disappeared after his card release?

[DarkCloud_PK]

im getting mauled by exams atm

[ff7chocoboknight2]

This game will suck until the starter decks are more balanced and the cards are less one sided. There are fewer cards with a larger number on the bottom than the right.

[BlackSolider]

Starter decks are random so they should be fairly balanced, but do feel free to give examples.

[MysticX2X]

May I ask why there is a poll asking if players think a card reset would be plausible? As much as the new players hate people like squirt being the best, it's reality.

I think it would plummet the card game further if there is a reset.

[BlackSolider]

Feel free to explain why you feel this way, as it would help to have a list of the pros and cons of the effects of a reset for when (if) we get around to discussing it.

[maximus_asinus]

Certain cards are more valuable not because of what numbers they have on the cards, but where the [higher] numbers are located on the card itself. A card with two high numbers bordering two touching sides is strategically stronger than a card with two high numbers on opposite sides. I haven't much experience with the card games (only from my time playing Final Fantasy VIII, which I hear this game is based off of) but I can see the fatal flaw in having a randomly selected starter deck. One person could get a complete set of strategically strong cards where as another person could recieve poor cards.

[BlackSolider]

A valid point, but do note that all cards are better for certain situations than others. If two high numbers are touching, that card is VERY strong on one direction and not very strong in the other, thereby limiting its uses unless you want to leave yourself open. A card with high numbers on opposite sides will be useful as a "bridge" between two cards, though it might leave itself open.

I've never seen a problem with more people having 'strategically strong cards' in their starter decks since the numbers aren't high enough to make a huge difference early, but it is a fair point sir Maximus. Thanks for brining it up.

[LordSquirt]

From what I know i'm not the only one who has leveled cards right now. Also, I never even played the game in a while. Classic's community is too [insert word here] for me to continue playing that game.

[Pelikano]

Nice, Squirt.

I think everyone's just happy when you [insert word here] off.

[Shadow87]

Squirts right, classic like died for real all of a sudden.

You know, when I had exams, i still managed to go on graal, since my computer is in my room and all. Wonder why people are always using that as an excuse.

Anyway, mystic i have a feeling you do not want a reset because you have a good win to loss ratio, same goes for others. Well reset will NOT kill the game, its dead already. A reset will only give them the option to make it better, and re release.

DC , exams or not, you had a job to do with the card game and you decided to neglect it completely for a week now, almost more. Irresponsible at most. No excuses, and I don't care who defends you or if you defend yourself, you released it, you should have stuck with it until everything was worked out. You have been nothing but selfish since you made Dev admin, make a change big guy.

[MysticX2X]

Yeah fix it and have the possibility of ****ing up again. They're already going to lose players if they reset it now. A card reset can become evitable, but if you don't want to investigate ways around one, that's pretty stupid.


Yes Tatsumi, I didn't spend 80 games just to have a silly reset happen. Then have to win another 80 just to expect another potential reset. Rinse and repeat.

[BlackSolider]

If we fix all the problems then we shouldn't have to keep resetting the game every two weeks. That sounds like a big "if", but really its 2-3 major things that need to get fixed: boosters, 'deck rating system' to avoid laming, and a better trading system. Everything else is probably minor, but that was just off the top of my head, so there could be a few more major things to fix.

[MysticX2X]

It could be fixable avoiding a reset perhaps.

[BlackSolider]

Perhaps, but enough damage has been done and perhaps it needs to be all corrected, rather than swept under the rug.

We'll debate the pros and cons of both sides, but I for one am in favor of a reset simply because I believe in losing to someone who's better than you skill wise, not just losing to someone because they were lucky enough to get boosters with better cards in them(no matter how they got them.)

[maximus_asinus]

how many people would Classic lose if there was a reset? From what I've seen over the past few days, Classic is having a very hard time getting a playercount over 15 (and none of the people I seen were playing cards).

- I think you guys should remove all limitations on the card game. Have a seperate log and script to detect players trying to boost wins. Having to wait X minutes is hardly a deterrent anyways.
- Starter decks should not be random. It is okay for booster packs though.
- Elements of the card game were taken from FFVIII (or so I've been told). Why didn't you guys bring region rules over when you remade the game (depending on the region you were in, the rules for the card game changed -- for example, in one city, cards got an element, which made it weaker/stronger VS another card, which would affect the battling cards numbers. Another city may not have this rule). Maybe we don't use regions, but atleast the option when we make the game to have some additional side rules that both sides agree on. Maybe instead of recieving one point, we recieve one of the opponents cards?

[BlackSolider]

Interesting points, especially the "regions" part. I never played the ff8 card game, so I'd have to look into more details, but it indeed looks interesting.

[Pelikano]

From what I've heard the Card Game wasn't scripted in a way it can just be easily changed..., if you guys know what I mean :o

[BlackSolider]

I could post the script for you, but I'm afraid it takes up 21 pages in microsoft word. I don't know whether it can easily be changed or not since I'm not a scripter; but DC said once or twice he probably could have probably have condensed it if he really tried.

Then again, the game itself isn't the issue; it's the issues in between games thats the main problem right now.

[MysticX2X]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

Perhaps, but enough damage has been done and perhaps it needs to be all corrected, rather than swept under the rug.

We'll debate the pros and cons of both sides, but I for one am in favor of a reset simply because I believe in losing to someone who's better than you skill wise, not just losing to someone because they were lucky enough to get boosters with better cards in them(no matter how they got them.)

Here are some
Pros: Everyone starts out equal again.
Cons: The reset might not be perfect and yet another might happen which fills people with pessimism

Believe it or not, the deck rating idea can fix the card game ideas. Grouping people into who they can/cannot verse. These are all genuine ideas that don't require a reset. The most the reset can accomplish is to anger some players.

Why are we debating a card reset when tickets are in a lot ****ing worse condition and a reset for that was out of the question?

[BlackSolider]

Because we can do something about the cards; we can't do anything about the tickets right now: that belongs to thor and storm.

The thing about a deck rating idea being implemented right now (without reset) is that all the wrongs commited when decks were "unrated" would still exist; people would still have all the wins/losses that they got (notice how I didn't use the word 'earn',) when things were imperfect. If we added a rating system and reset it, people would thus earn all of their wins and losses fairly from now on (hopefully.)

[MysticX2X]

Actually tickets is majorly Night's decision as well mind you.

There is no need to reset cards. People got their wins fair and square majorly. I mean it is lame as hell to have level cards and verse noobs, but that's the benefits of persistence.

Deck rating can still work with the current system, and nobody is even that high yet. The highest is squirt, and he has basically quit.

[Shadow87]

Um I think I made it painfully clear that to even say classic has a "ticket economy problem" Is the dumbest thing to ever say.

Make GC prizes = Spending tickets.
Lottery Scam = Spending tickets.

As soon as they do those two things, I personally hope for more GC prizes, then the amount of tickets people have, will not be a problem.

As far as cards go, suck it up and suggest a reset. Most of the peoples wins are a fluke anyway, simply because people managed better cards than others, or to just fight people new to the game. For those of you who put the work in...not that much work but ya, then tough luck, a reset should happen, game should go back into development, and that should be the end of it.
It won't ruin anything so long as they make actual good changes in it, and hype up the release again with something special. Maybe like first win gets a rare card or something.

OH WAIT, LETS KILL TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE TO, HOW ABOUT LETTING US SPEND TICKETS ON BOOSTERS! Instead of gaining lame points.

That way, GCs have to stop being bums and start hosting again, and people will spend tickets! And! There wont be points to lame because there wont be any to lame! (points to gain to buy boosters is lame anyway)

...duh.

[BlackSolider]

Well if our "top" person quit, doesn't that show theres a problem? The number of people playing classic, much less the card game itself, has fallen dramatically over the past week. Clearly something is wrong with the system. With a reset, all those problems should go away (once all the fixes are made,) and everyone can start with a clean slate.

[BlackSolider]

@ Tats.

Night wants to keep the card game separate from GC for a variety of reasons. I'd list some, but I forget all the details. DC and Night had a huge argument over it (dc favored it being linked to gc) but obviously night had the final say.

One issue I can think of is that with the current # of tickets, some people would be able to buy an insane amount of boosters, and anyone new wouldn't be able to get anything, creating a massive disparity. Obviously a deck rating system would prevent a bunch of laming, but the new people would be so far behind they might not see a point of spending so much time playing catch up.

[Shadow87]

See, this why i feel everyone is so damn dense in the head.

Why do we just have to do one thing? Hell, use both, use points and tickets, why not?

Gladius, You can join the Level restriction idea, with the spending of tickets, that way yes, people will still have strong cards ..maybe, depends on the random card drawing of boosters. I could spend 100 tickets and might end up with one strong card. But joining the level restriction with the tickets and points, at least then people will still fight at their own level, but buying the cards won't be so damn annoying. Could just win events and card games. Or host an event for cards, win points and tickets! And thats why it so bad that people can't agree. I may not like DC and how hes changed since he got dev admin, but Night is wrong. It is a bad decision to not link tickets to the cards at this point, he needs to suck it up and do it. It will help. This is also why the game should never have been released if they are not 100% on everything about it.

[BlackSolider]

I'll post night's reasoning (if and when I get it) and see what you think.

[BlackSolider]

Good news everyone. Apparently DC and Night are indeed alive and do actually care, exams or no exams. Take a look at the conversation they had and start crying....for joy.

BTW its from DC's point of view.

everyday i'm hustlin (Sat Apr 25 20:49:52 2009):
(8:18:47 PM) Nightmareangelus: gotta fix boosters and decide what we want to do in regards to a reset, partial reset, or nothing of the sort
(8:19:03 PM) Me.: what I can do is
(8:19:09 PM) Me.: fix boosters with the card manager v2
(8:19:16 PM) Me.: release card manager v2
(8:19:23 PM) Me.: and do a partial reset
(8:19:29 PM) Nightmareangelus: yah
(8:19:34 PM) Me.: which would be giving everyone a better starting deck
(8:19:35 PM) Nightmareangelus: I was gonna vote for partial reset
(8:19:39 PM) Me.: and refunding points
(8:19:46 PM) Nightmareangelus: yeah that's the way I was wanting to go