New Manager

[xnervNATx]

Originally Posted by Polo

I wasn't aware that being Manager was a popularity contest. I though it was about managing the server and trying to push things fowards.

how much time did u push the thing foward in the past 4 years?

Originally Posted by Polo

Seriously, if you think I'm losing my spark, then you are mistaken. I want to see the server back where it belongs, and I'm ready to do what I can to achieve that.

i think i heard that one before.

[DarkCloud_PK]

Originally Posted by Polo

I wasn't aware that being Manager was a popularity contest. I though it was about managing the server and trying to push things fowards. Seriously, given past events I fully expect players to hold me in a negative light. I just accept that as part of the position. It's more important for me to use actions to change Classic for the better right now that to worry about my own reputation.

Generally, when you push a server forward, you get a positive light, not a negative. Managers should NOT be loathed by their community. On successful servers I see some managers are ADORED by their community because of what THEY have done for THEM. It isn't part of the position to be hated by the players. If you're hated by the players as a manager, you're doing a bad job. The only admin/staff I expect to be hated by the players are GPs.

Originally Posted by Polo

There are few people on Classic with the mindset or server knowledge to work with player requests and work them into a tangible idea. As I've said before it's easy to take one players complaint and resolve it. being able to take comments from everyone and evaluate them in a non-biased way is what it takes to be a manager, and plenty of people simply cannot do that. The are probably equally as few people with the patience to consider every little change to the server and how it will affect things, trying to balance what players appear to want against what will actually be good for the server.

There are plenty of people on the server that could take and evaluate complaints better than you. Probably because you don't seem to act on those complaints, just listen to them. Hell, for the past few years, any time someone would GIVE you a complaint, you would PM back "hmm". That became your slogan.

As for changes for the server, there are many people who have successfully considered changes, implemented them, and had a positive result. Unfortunately, you aren't on that list of people.

Don't make your job out to be so diffcult to where it makes you the only viable candidate. It isn't and you're doing an awful job as it is anyway.

Originally Posted by Polo

My level of activity has nothing to do with any threats or pressure I am under. It has more to do with real life issues. You point to a few minor things that apparently show my 'spark' is already dwindling.

You are trying to tell us that it is a coincidence that you became this new 'Storm 2.0', who is going to right all his 4 years of wrongs just at the same time Bell started giving you ultimatums? Don't lie to us, its insulting.

Originally Posted by Polo

[list][*]My activity was down on last week. It happens. I can't be expected to increase this every single week. Things will naturally fluctuate depending on various circumstances. I detailed my intended minimum activity earlier in the thread, and this is something I intend to stick to.

2 hours a day of basically what I've seen
Sitting on the bank answering dumb questions and playing ultra GP, gagging oni for 5 minutes for saying the b-word, and telling people not to swear, while trying to give people the runaround with words on their complaints?
Nice management work.

Originally Posted by Polo

[*]The code base for Onslaught is small and/or has not been modified for a week. Onslaught and the event systems are not the only code I've been working on, nor is my primary job even a development one. If I'm busy with other management tasks, I have to prioritise accordingly. There is work that has been done on the Event systems that has not yet translated into actual code.

Your staff activity logs say besides onslaught, you've made one small 35 line NPCW. Other than that, nothing, not one thing. Why keep adding to the 20% done clutter of scripts this server has if you're not going to follow through?

Originally Posted by Polo

[*]I did not tell Moonie to make you a moderator. You asked me for moderator rights so that you could make a locked thread for releases. Whilst I approve of the idea, giving full blown moderator rights is excessive for such a small task. I'm fairly sure I can't hand out hundreds of moderator positions, so I've been looking at ways to avoid giving moderator positions for this task, and also trying to determine who all should get moderator if this is required.

You approved of my idea, and said you were going to look into it, then when I badgered you about it, you gave me EXCUSES on why there shouldnt be mod rights given here. I didn't ask for ONE HUNDRED mod positions, I asked for 3, one for me, one for WhiteDragon, and one for Thor, so we could document updates more streamlined, noone reads NPC server messages. When you started making excuses, I just asked for THOR, and you kept making excuses.

That's what you generally do when you're asked to act, you make an excuse, thats why I've said, you're turning back into the 4 year stagnant storm we all know. You told me yourself, talking alone isn't going to save classic, thats your reasoning for not even posting on your own servers forums. Yet, thats all you do in the game, talk and make excuses.

[xnervNATx]

Originally Posted by DarkCloud_PK

That's what you generally do when you're asked to act, you make an excuse, thats why I've said, you're turning back into the 4 year stagnant storm we all know. You told me yourself, talking alone isn't going to save classic, thats your reasoning for not even posting on your own servers forums. Yet, thats all you do in the game, talk and make excuses.

how much complaint did i send to him about certains players? many and NONE got taken seriously.

[jorollychu]

ya what dc said stop gagging

[LOA--Paul]

make me manager. Manager does not need scripting skills but administrative skills and abilities. I can manage a team (I do this IRL on a daily basis) and facilitate progress on the server. If I'm manager I'll actually have people doing things that are uploaded and implemented.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

It is completely relevant, you're arguing that what Storm suggested is "hardly an accurate representation any demographic on any game ever". You must be comparing Graal to other MMORPGs, I am just wondering which ones you're comparing it to.

No, you're going off on an irrelevant tangent. The claim I made was to heighten the scope of inaccuracy of Storm's statistic, it wasn't in an attempt to directly compare other MMO demographics (the relevant one here being geographics) to what Classic has. If you are interested in MMO demographics then you can research yourself because has nothing to do with Classic.

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

I am willing to bet that out of the 3 people who responded to me (or "nearly everyone" as you put it) would agree that it is probably a 60/40 split, not something as outlandish as what you're hinting at. A 60/40 split would not be enough to warrant a move, as what Storm and Gladius said.

Please outline where I have made an "outlandish" suggestion as to what the ratio of player geographics would be, I must be missing it.

Originally Posted by LOA--Paul

make me manager. Manager does not need scripting skills but administrative skills and abilities. I can manage a team (I do this IRL on a daily basis) and facilitate progress on the server. If I'm manager I'll actually have people doing things that are uploaded and implemented.

We need a manager who isn't jailed, no?

[jorollychu]

if he was manager he could get himself out of jail genius

[maximus_asinus]

Originally Posted by Rufus

No, you're going off on an irrelevant tangent. The claim I made was to heighten the scope of inaccuracy of Storm's statistic, it wasn't in an attempt to directly compare other MMO demographics (the relevant one here being geographics) to what Classic has. If you are interested in MMO demographics then you can research yourself because has nothing to do with Classic.

I must have misunderstood where you were going when you said his figure was "hardly an accurate representation any demographic on any game ever". If you aren't comparing it to other MMORPGs, then what are you comparing it to?

Originally Posted by Rufus

Please outline where I have made an "outlandish" suggestion as to what the ratio of player geographics would be, I must be missing it.

Either you believe the figure Storm put out there was highly inaccurate, or you were just arguing the number for the sake of arguing.

Originally Posted by Rufus

We need a manager who isn't jailed, no?

Originally Posted by jorollychu

if he was manager he could get himself out of jail genius

[LOA--Paul]

Originally Posted by Rufus

We need a manager who isn't jailed, no?

I was jailed not by a GP but by Thor which is irrelevant anyway (jailing didn't follow the GP guidelines, as far as I know them from when Lyndzey was chief)


Manager should be someone who can manage a team and push results. Like I said I do this on a daily basis. If you people want to see some actual results then put me as manager. Go ahead and choose somebody who will make levels or script all day if you want to but dont expect to see tons of relative developement. I call for increased social activity on the server. Things that promote community growth.

[BlackSolider]

And how exactly would you increase social activity, good sir?

[LOA--Paul]

There are many ideas that have been proposed. Businesses need to be reintroduced to classic, and that doesnt take scripting an economy. I'm not going to take credit for the idea to bring this back as it was someone else, but things like the old Pizza Team need to be brought back. Social activities that the players can have fun with.

We need interconnected businesses and server events (note, not just GC events but server 'happenings') that involve players beyond the use of scripted NPCs and fighting. Social activities that tap into these player run businesses and groups.

[MysticX2X]

^Agreed. But really, innovative ideas need to be introduced. Bringing back old things won't make things much better in my opinion.

[Terazel Tenjin]

Though the forum population is most probably an inaccurate gauge to sample the actual server population, the support for DC to take up the Manager position on Classic is obvious. If that's what the people want and he has the potential as well as the skills to improve the state of the server, then why not let him take the helm?

Even though I no longer access the server, word through the grapevine is that he listens to player demands and acts accordingly in that regard. That should be qualification enough, especially seeing how the server degraded drastically over the years under the "current" Manager.

My two cents as an observer is that eventually people that still hold faith to the server have to realize that the server in and of itself, regardless of the current content, is the great potential resource that needs to be utilized. If the slate needs to be cleaned, why not? It's far too late into failure to try to bring old things back. As mentioned, new things need to be introduced (or at least old ideas reintroduced as new ones) and innovation needs to be encouraged and brought to life.

[LOA--Paul]

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

^Agreed. But really, innovative ideas need to be introduced. Bringing back old things won't make things much better in my opinion.

Agreed, it's just that Pizza Team was a good example of the style of community gaming I was referring too.

Management should be seperate from LAT. You don't have a project manager in any corporation or business focusing only on programming- they delegate responsibility and meet actual deadlines.

Results drive success rather than the way you get there. We need to focus on bringing GOALS rather than BEHAVIORS. Someone scripting stuff and making a lot of levels is great, but thats just part of the way to get there, it doesnt bring the culminating end result.

I would bring as manager IDP and IPA's (Individual Development Plans and Individual Performance Assessments) to the staff that focus on quality results. This is the way to get things done. These reviews would be public access. I also recognize that these are volunteer positions and I will insure incentive will be there to produce for the community with valid recognition for efforts that bring positive results.

Listen, I know some of you may not like me due to my character in game- but if any of you have any experience with corporate business you understand that there is a strong difference between developing a professional rapport with someone rather than a personal one.


Like I've been saying- I can drive results on this server. You basically have two choices right now. You can choose a manager who is going to be scripting and making levels the entire time, neglecting 'management' duties, or you can choose someone with actual management EXPERIENCE and CAPABILITY such as myself. I've shown you I have an actual plan to manage and retain staff and I can bring players (new and old) to the server. Thanks for reading.

[-Ramirez-]

I think it's funny that anyone is even acting as if the position for manager is available. Pointing out why you think you'd be appropriate isn't going to make the PWA team any more likely to remove Storm. You're doing nothing but boasting.

[jorollychu]

no one asked you for your opinion freddie

[LOA--Paul]

Originally Posted by -Ramirez-

I think it's funny that anyone is even acting as if the position for manager is available. Pointing out why you think you'd be appropriate isn't going to make the PWA team any more likely to remove Storm. You're doing nothing but boasting.

I don't see what this has to do with PWA team as this is Classic not a playerworld server

[-Ramirez-]

Originally Posted by LOA--Paul

I don't see what this has to do with PWA team as this is Classic not a playerworld server

Who else is going to remove Storm? If you honestly think he'd leave on his own, I think you need to try talking to him yourself.

[StrykerTFFD]

Originally Posted by LOA--Paul

I don't see what this has to do with PWA team as this is Classic not a playerworld server

The PWA were given some level of power over Classic not too long ago, though it mostly started with just Bell being the one with any sway.

[Deophite18]

Originally Posted by LOA--Paul

I don't see what this has to do with PWA team as this is Classic not a playerworld server

Yeah, this guy would definitely be a great candidate for Manager.

[LOA--Paul]

Originally Posted by StrykerTFFD

The PWA were given some level of power over Classic not too long ago, though is mostly started with just Bell being the one with any sway.

Oh makes sense I guess, but the name doesn't match now. It should just be "Server Administration"


And I dont really have anything against Master Storm, but I feel that he'd be better able to contribute in a head scripter form or something. I think most players want some management to lead the teams on the server as a whole. Management needs to be something responsible for the basic running of the server as a whole, rather than just levels development. It's more of an ADMINISTRATIVE job rather than a TECHNICAL one (or rather it needs to be made such)

Honestly the reason things are like they are and HAVE BEEN under every manager is because they try to lead from that technical position rather than administrating.

Originally Posted by Deophite18

Yeah, this guy would definitely be a great candidate for Manager.

I don't see how that relates to my ability to administrate and lead a team? I don't need to know the 'latest drama' of a misnamed team in order to help lead a team to success. Servers aren't run by being on top of drama. Like I said I want to bring IDP's and IPA's to the staff and LEAD the team to success. Let's get back in this for the better of the server rather than grandstanding for internet fame and other useless things. There needs to be some sort of accountability as far as production goes. I will institute cycle times that need to be met for projects and I guarantee results.

[Kristi]

Storm 4 Manager.

[TESTRETIS]

Originally Posted by Kristi

Storm 4 Manager.

TURN AND FACE THE STRANGE C-C-C-CHANGES

Time may change us, but we can't change time.

Post related.

[BlackSolider]

Rak makes a good case, but ranger has a point. The manager position is currently filled, and last time I checked we don't hold elections every four years.

Do we need a new manager? Possibly. Are we going to get one in the near future? Not likely, unless someone with major authority decides to make a move.

[MysticX2X]

Originally Posted by -Ramirez-

I think it's funny that anyone is even acting as if the position for manager is available. Pointing out why you think you'd be appropriate isn't going to make the PWA team any more likely to remove Storm. You're doing nothing but boasting.

This thread was dedicated to the current manager's inability to get things moving foward, and also to discuss potential new replacements for Storm hence NEW MANAGER. Nobody said Storm was being removed, but we all assume his time is near end.

Last time I recall, it shouldn't be who the PWA wants as manager in all honesty. That's like saying the people can't vote for president. I'm quite surprised Storm isn't removed yet since we as players don't want him to manage Classic anymore. Manager isn't a popularity contest, but when everyone doesn't want you to be manager because you simply do a poor job, then you probably should quit. We as the players payed for this game, and we as the players should have a better majority in saying who we don't want as our manager. Storm hasn't gotten that yet though.

I think Rak is right on the ballpark with what Classic needs, and how the manager should get it done. There


@Gladius: Your pessimistic attitude is seriously aggravating to read at the slightest. Develop your own point of view or something. Also, stop using 100 rhetorical questions in your posts that you answer yourself.

[BlackSolider]

Look dude. I'm posting about both sides because both sides have something to say. Each side has some good points; each side has some bad points. Why not analyze both?

If I had an opinion, I'd post it as well. But right now I still can't decide what exactly a classic manager needs to do (dev, public relations, organize staff), and therefor I can't comment on storm nor any possible replacements, if they are needed at all.

All I know is that classic needs to fix a lot of things, and the manager isn't the only problem. Would a tough manager with a drive and vision be a good thing for classic? It's possible.

Until we (the people of classic) can come to an agreement on what we want/need our manager to do, theres no way we can find the best candidate available. Besides, like ranger said, right now the management position is full, and I've only seen one person in this thread that has the power to change that (though I could be wrong).

[LOA--Paul]

I don't think Storm's duties should change, but the title should. I would not mind taking up the duties I listed at all. Storm should still be a top developer. But a manager should be doing the duties I listed (managing)

[grim_squeaker_x]

I vote for a change! I agree that MasterStorm has done a poor job. But I don't know anyone that would do a better job. But at this state, anyone would do a better job as Manager.

[Remonq]

this is all kind of irrelevant seeing as how storm won't be removed any time soon since he has recently been trying to do his job

[Kristi]

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

Last time I recall, it shouldn't be who the PWA wants as manager in all honesty. That's like saying the people can't vote for president.

No, it isn't. Classic is a server owned by a corporation; it is not a democratic nation.

[LOA--Paul]

Originally Posted by Kristi

No, it isn't. Classic is a server owned by a corporation; it is not a democratic nation.

Yeah but most corporations already have some sort of cycle time and accountability in place production wise for projects like this. Cyberjouers is highly atypical in that aspect so who knows what they will do.

The job should be seen as 'project manager' rather than 'scripting/levels manager'. Right now, it's basically head LAT with some other RC rights. I dont see a lot of actual oversight going on. Most of what it takes shouldnt really take RC rights besides to verify what was done by others. Manager should be keeping track of things in excel and using other methods. Everyone should have some specific assignments (with enough leeway to get good original approved side projects going)

[jorollychu]

storm has no vision he cant see past the movement systems

[Kristi]

Originally Posted by LOA--Paul

Yeah but most corporations already have some sort of cycle time and accountability in place production wise for projects like this. Cyberjouers is highly atypical in that aspect so who knows what they will do.

So either you think it is a democratic nation, and your proof is terrible, or your rebuttal is irrelevant to my statement and shouldn't have a "but". I simply stated that mystic's analogy is wrong.

Originally Posted by LOA--Paul

The job should be seen as 'project manager' rather than 'scripting/levels manager'. Right now, it's basically head LAT with some other RC rights. I dont see a lot of actual oversight going on. Most of what it takes shouldnt really take RC rights besides to verify what was done by others. Manager should be keeping track of things in excel and using other methods. Everyone should have some specific assignments (with enough leeway to get good original approved side projects going)

No, Thor should be the one with the spreadsheet as the development administrator. The manager should oversight the team leads and make sure they are doing what they are supposed to do. If you think Thor is doing a good job, Night is doing a good job, and Stryker is doing a good job, then by default you think Storm is doing a good job, since that is his position. If you are unsatisfied with one of the three listed above, then Storm is doing a less then perfect job by not replacing them.

[BlackSolider]

Are any of the three listed (admins) doing a good job?

Night got on and scolded me today for my horrible actions, but beyond that he hasn't done much recently. I heard he's sick but idk.

[jorollychu]

all 3 are not doing a good job

thor
nighty















stryker

[MysticX2X]

Originally Posted by Kristi

No, it isn't. Classic is a server owned by a corporation; it is not a democratic nation.

Never said we had a sole right in choosing who we want/don't want as managers. But as the paying customers, our voice should be considered most of all.

@ Your Manager Statement: If all admins are doing their Job fine, that does NOT mean that Storm is doing a great job. He's supposed to be the one briefing the server and the dev team the most. I don't recollect the Dev Admin deciding what goes on Classic or not. That really should be the managers job but I don't have a problem with Thor though. Anyone can make sure staff admins are doing their job. Classic has lost hope and there is nobody but the manager to blame for that since that person has to be the one to ensure prosperity. Right now, the FAQ team is fine, GC team is fine, GP team is a bit inactive, and Dev team is a bit slow.

[jacob_bald6225]

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

Never said we had a sole right in choosing who we want/don't want as managers. But as the paying customers, our voice should be considered most of all.

@ Your Manager Statement: If all admins are doing their Job fine, that does NOT mean that Storm is doing a great job. He's supposed to be the one briefing the server and the dev team the most. I don't recollect the Dev Admin deciding what goes on Classic or not. That really should be the managers job but I don't have a problem with Thor though. Anyone can make sure staff admins are doing their job. Classic has lost hope and there is nobody but the manager to blame for that since that person has to be the one to ensure prosperity. Right now, the FAQ team is fine, GC team is fine, GP team is a bit inactive, and Dev team is a bit slow.

Thats because manager isn't really a position classic has ever had... Seriously I would believe that expecting anything out of a manager besides being there to be trusted and remove inactive admins or admins who are blatantly corrupt. Seriously Manager isn't a job that you have to be super active to do.--Storm isn't doing a bad job(Well maybe for not kicking the dev team in the ass when they were stagnating the last two times), I would say that manager is more of a checks and balances kind of position that enables you to have different staff divisions without worrying about somebody getting too much power.

[MysticX2X]

So logging in every few often days isn't a bad thing for a manager? Sorry, but tell that to the PWA's who removed managers of other servers for that same "decent management".

Managers have to think too, you know. Anyone can do Storm's job right about now. Logging in every 3 days, answering pms with a "hmmm", and taking care of a few staff transgressions whenever they arouse. How devastating it is

[jorollychu]

Hans Dershowitz

[BlackSolider]

If the job of a classic manager is to just guide to staff and give em a boot in the right direction occasionally, storm can do it if he becomes more active. Hell we don't need to fire someone who basically makes sure things are in order. We can get a trained monkey to do it.

Now, if the job of a classic manager is to bring in the dev team each week and check on their progress towards goals X, Y, and Z....then we need a new manager b/c storm hasn't done that.

The problem is, everyone has a different opinion on what classic manager should do. I think if the dev team was releasing more consistently and going in a direction favorable to the players, we wouldn't have a big issue with storm. However, this doesn't seem to be the case. The last dev release was the chat box...the last major release were the 2 quests. The next big dev release is supposedly the auction thing, which I don't know the due date of. But chat boxes and auctions aren't what the players want. I won't sit here and pretend to know what the majority wants, but tickets+prizes+lack of content are a few of the issues. Until some of these issues get fixed, it won't appear to the public that the dev team is doing much good, and thus storm isn't doing his job by guiding them.

Wow I rambled again. In summary: if the manager needs to keep the staff in line, storm can probably do that. If the manager needs to guide the dev team towards a certain goal, storm might not be able to do that. We must, as a community, decide whether the dev team is doing enough to solve our problems. If not, we need to somehow get a new manager who can push the devs to more productive and constant releases. Who that is, I don't know.